[Decision] Small & Medium Award for Modders

[Leonardo]

Well, I thought about what you said Leonardo but I'd really like to keep them separate. Mainly because I see the smaller award more of a way to recognize acts that benefit the community but don't really represent anything absolutely concrete in terms of a 'real' contribution. It's more of a theoretical contribution if you know what I mean? tone gave away the RS2 environments to the community but it wasn't to anyone in particular or for any particular purpose. It was fantastic but it was more of a singular act, a remarkable one to be sure, but a singular act nonetheless.

In a way they are separate awards, it is just that while they are separate they are also tied to each other and the purpose for that is to recognoize a modder with both a small award and a medium award (after being nominated by the modding community) as part of the annual modding award event. Or this particular event could take place when it's neeeded.

[Lifthrasir]

I think you miss the principle of this proposal. The point is not to make a progression but rather to reward modders depending on the nature of their contribution. To stay simple, reward modders based on the 'value' of their contribution (though I don't especially like the word but can't find a better one) rather on the 'amount' of their contribution.
From my opinion, your idea, even coming from a fair purpose, would favorise modders work in term of quantity but not necessary in term of quality

[Leonardo]

No, I don't think I miss the purpose of this idea, instead I got another idea as soon I saw the images in the OP. Also, my idea is not based on quantity rather than quality.

[z3n]

The small award is primarily meant to recognize a singular act (primarily of generosity), no modder is expected to allow others to use assets from their mod. Therefore it is 'remarkable' when said acts are made.

Whereas the medium award recognizes multiple acts (primarily of dedication), no modder is expected to contribute in the modding workshops or make multiple releases of a mod fixing issues. Therefore, we should recognize those who do such things.

Merging these awards fails to convey the primary purpose of each. And while the small award could recognize a remarkable act like releasing a small mod, its intent is not primarily about releasing a small mod or any other singular act.

I do like the idea of encouraging people through the issue of the small award. But I still believe two separate awards are for the best.

[Squid]

Oppose. I just went and looked through the entire list of awards for the site. For modding you have citizenship followed by the Opifex award. For non-modding you have citizenship followed by the Phalera award. Other than that you have the competition awards, that reward both modding and non-modding equally. I see no imbalance between the two "sides" that require extra awards to rectify. The only thing that I have not covered are the various competitions and while there is currently no modding themed competition there is no reason why there couldn't be.

Edit: It should be noted that there are no awards handed out by the curia for non-modders either that are not at the Opifex level or higher (i.e. Phalera, Novus, Divus, etc.)

[z3n]

I appreciate the input Squid but I would suggest the curia service award and Asterixs Loincloth are awarded to non modders at a far greater rate, in addition to the Phalera.

Regardless, what is wrong with involving the curia in supporting site activity in ways other than the exceptional?

[PikeStance]

Just some food for thought,...
For this...

To qualify for the Modding Service Award, the nominee must have participated within a workshop section with distinction over the span of 6 months or released a hosted modification.

For this, is there a reason why this would not qualify for Opifex? I wonder if the standard is too high if so. I do value the effort some modders put in creating tutorials and resources and so an Opifex may be more appropriate for this sort of contribution. I would say that such a contribution would be "exceptional." Just to add, Hosted Mods modders have been awarded the Opifex already.

Again, another thought;
Awarded by the Curia for a remarkable deed that benefited the TWC modding community.

This is remarkably similar to the Man of the Hour Award

Awarded by the Curia for a remarkable deed that benefited the TWC community.

Given less than a half dozen of the award has been awarded; then modding would be something we might want to consider. I have to admit, I did not catch the similarities between the two.

As far as Axalon's issue with "nothing afterward," then that is worth considering. I would not be in favor of anything specific to modding, but the site in general.
Opifex, Phalera, Loincloth and Novus are all co-equals. Divus stands out as something special. perhaps a better alternative would be "Divus type award" for non-staff contribution.

[Flinn]

As a matter of fact my first reaction when I saw this was similar to that of Squid, but I still think that it would be good if we will discuss about a possible intermediate award between citizenship and Opifex;

@ squid, the idea of a modding-centered competition (not awards) isn't a bad one, I'll expand on that I think

[AnthoniusII]

As a matter of fact my first reaction when I saw this was similar to that of Squid, but I still think that it would be good if we will discuss about a possible intermediate award between citizenship and Opifex;

@ squid, the idea of a modding-centered competition (not awards) isn't a bad one, I'll expand on that I think

Modding centered competition?
Under what criteria? All modders know 1st handed that their own creations look to their eyes better than anyone's else like a parent looks his/her child as pretier than the children of the others.
Modding is not ONLY about skills , other factors that involve are the personal taste , personal prospective etc. How can we judge a modder's work (a mod) directly against an other mod ?
Votting? An example that votting is not the best way.
Make a poll of how many know Rusuchi TW mod under the MARKA modding team. The number is limited to few douzens.
Make a poll of how many know TATW , the number will be hundreds!
Make a 3rd poll of how many know that TATW and douzens other mods released or in development USE the material of Rusichi TW mod (the results will be close to zero).
So we have a mod that has been downloaded few hundreds times and a mod that downloaded few thousands times. But the 2nd use the material of the 1st modified or as is...
Which is more important to get the bigger competition reward?
See the delima behind it?

EDIT: What I had in mind is a motivation for someone to stop simply ask whe a mod will be released and deside to take some action in his/her hands to help.
Someone apears with a tiny script change that helps mod to to a spesific fanction, someone apears with few 2d pictures that can be used in unit UIs or building ones, someone apears showing his 1st model of unit or horse or what ever. He posts his work and make it available to public to use.
Rank1
The above persons extend their work with a full list od scripts, map textures , models etc . They post their work and make them available to modding community.
Rank2
The above persons reveal a more extensive of their work , even small mods or submods .
Rank 3
The above persons get involved more actively in to modding with mods, submods, tools, maps , textures, tutorials
Rank Artifex
The above persons have a series of mods, tutorials, submods, model collections available to public, high respectfull mods, a series of helping acts in the workshops
Rank Opifex

The progresive stage of modding apriciation (that a rank shows) gives motivation to any modder to continue trying to be better , be more acceptable and be more helpfull to the modding community.

That said AnthoniusII

[z3n]

Modding centered competition?
Under what criteria? All modders know 1st handed that their own creations look to their eyes better than anyone's else like a parent looks his/her child as pretier than the children of the others.
Modding is not ONLY about skills , other factors that involve are the personal taste , personal prospective etc. How can we judge a modder's work (a mod) directly against an other mod ?
Votting? An example that votting is not the best way.
Make a poll of how many know Rusuchi TW mod under the MARKA modding team. The number is limited to few douzens.
Make a poll of how many know TATW , the number will be hundreds!
Make a 3rd poll of how many know that TATW and douzens other mods released or in development USE the material of Rusichi TW mod (the results will be close to zero).
So we have a mod that has been downloaded few hundreds times and a mod that downloaded few thousands times. But the 2nd use the material of the 1st modified or as is...
Which is more important to get the bigger competition reward?
See the delima behind it?

EDIT: What I had in mind is a motivation for someone to stop simply ask whe a mod will be released and deside to take some action in his/her hands to help.
Someone apears with a tiny script change that helps mod to to a spesific fanction, someone apears with few 2d pictures that can be used in unit UIs or building ones, someone apears showing his 1st model of unit or horse or what ever. He posts his work and make it available to public to use.
Rank1
The above persons extend their work with a full list od scripts, map textures , models etc . They post their work and make them available to modding community.
Rank2
The above persons reveal a more extensive of their work , even small mods or submods .
Rank 3
The above persons get involved more actively in to modding with mods, submods, tools, maps , textures, tutorials
Rank Artifex
The above persons have a series of mods, tutorials, submods, model collections available to public, high respectfull mods, a series of helping acts in the workshops
Rank Opifex

The progresive stage of modding apriciation (that a rank shows) gives motivation to any modder to continue trying to be better , be more acceptable and be more helpfull to the modding community.

That said AnthoniusII

Well that's a great point Anthonius, I've always appreciated the Marka horses that were given to everyone though! Vanilla horses are just horrible....


Good points again Pike, honestly I didn't want to be too radical and introduce anything that might offend people overly. So I just went with what I truly believed was necessary from past experience. The issue however is that the man of the hour can only be awarded once really. It's not a progressive award.


I hate seeing people like Gustave, Louis lux, alin, QS, nazgool, VT Marvin, permanently stuck without an award from us despite fantastic contributions that didnt really stop, often I wonder if they would be more active on here if they were recognized. I feel all people need sometimes is a little recognition since theres so little of that from the curia.


Opifex awards are extremely rare so I'd love to stir the pot and get the curia active again in giving out some awards. While a Divus like modding award is worth considering I wonder if Hex would take offense, since its sort of their special recognition aside from Novus. I figured I would stick in two smaller awards than Opifex instead especially since the small award is a lot easier for the curia to quantify and hand out.

Maybe if we start looking outward again instead of inward as with all these constant 'change this part of the curia! Wait no! Change that!', good things might happen. That's just my opinion so let's see what happens.

[PikeStance]

Good points again Pike, honestly I didn't want to be too radical and introduce anything that might offend people overly. So I just went with what I truly believed was necessary from past experience. The issue however is that the man of the hour can only be awarded once really. It's not a progressive award.

I hate seeing people like Gustave, Louis lux, alin, QS, nazgool, VT Marvin, permanently stuck without an award from us despite fantastic contributions that didnt really stop, often I wonder if they would be more active on here if they were recognized. I feel all people need sometimes is a little recognition since theres so little of that from the curia.


Opifex awards are extremely rare so I'd love to stir the pot and get the curia active again in giving out some awards. While a Divus like modding award is worth considering I wonder if Hex would take offense, since its sort of their special recognition aside from Novus. I figured I would stick in two smaller awards than Opifex instead especially since the small award is a lot easier for the curia to quantify and hand out.

Maybe if we start looking outward again instead of inward as with all these constant 'change this part of the curia! Wait no! Change that!', good things might happen. That's just my opinion so let's see what happens.

The problem with "new" awards is that we are not doing a very good job of recognizing and awarding those worthy of recognition now. Creating "new" awards may provide a slight rise, but once the immediate people are awarded, the award will be rarely proposed.
When Squid mentioned citizenship was an alternative he sort of hit the nail on the head. We have not have more than 30 Patrons since 2012. We have not have more than 50 applications since 2011. The large awards hve followed a similar pattern.


I wonder why you have not proposed those members for Opifex.

[Flinn]

Anthonius, as much as I understand from where you are coming from, we do indeed vote on mods and compare them every year, during the Modding Awards...; I think you are missing the point though, a competition is something where you do something "new" and compete with it against other "new" things from other modders; quick random example: "modding competition n°1 - make a new model for the HRE body guard".

it is still totally in embryo in any case and I will discuss it extensively before deciding either way; thanks for your input and if you wish to expand on this please PM me, as this possible new competition is off-topic in this thread

[AnthoniusII]

Anthonius, as much as I understand from where you are coming from, we do indeed vote on mods and compare them every year, during the Modding Awards...; I think you are missing the point though, a competition is something where you do something "new" and compete with it against other "new" things from other modders; quick random example: "modding competition n°1 - make a new model for the HRE body guard".

it is still totally in embryo in any case and I will discuss it extensively before deciding either way; thanks for your input and if you wish to expand on this please PM me, as this possible new competition is off-topic in this thread

I don't disagree that we vote for the modders or the mods of the year. The real problem is that new modders are rare. See the whole issue through a young man's/woman's prospective.
He/she found his/her self in a cataclismic world of mods, tools , tutorials. The 1st thing that will cross his/her mind is that his "work" (a model , a texture , a script etc) will may have no place among the Modding Gods he reads their posts.
Now...an example that i happen to expirienced. A young man tried to make some animations ...He never puplished his work and from what i understood he found some closed "doors". He found me that i am a well known crazy man that askes crazy things from his fellow modders (Ceasar Clivus). I gave him a chance to prove his work. The result? 4 Unique Archery animations including a crossbow one. He gave life to our Lithovolos and finally he created Knights lance waving banners when knights are charging and fixed the riders legs position ...The result was EXELENT. If cases like him get some "recognision" for their work they will have a motivation to do more. Motivation will keep them active as modders and only benefits may come to modding community if persons like him would continue trying to make more of their work.
Lets supose that a child apears and show us a unit model (quality is a matter of personal taste) and everything he gets is ignorance , he will be bored and leave modding.
But if "scouts" of such primitive modders will give him something as recognision for his ATTEMPT not the result necesary, that child will continue to try to improve him helf and maybe one day we will all admire his/her work!
Small modding ranks are perfect for encouragement and encouragment is half the way to creation.

[Gaius Baltar]

You dont need to stop the vote, just amend with a subsequent proposal. I don't think the medal design was locked in so its probably not necessary.

It is recommended that a competition and vote be held for the artwork of these medals.

(last line of proposal)...

[z3n]

Alright, I'd like to move this to a vote.

[z3n]

I wonder why you have not proposed those members for Opifex.

Mainly b/c they're not active any more sadly. They (alin, gustave, nazgool, paullus, moros, shigawire etc) created two mods (EB, and EB2), one of which was specifically described as breathtaking by CA and loved by the community. However they somehow have absolutely no awards for the most part, shigawire has citizenship only I think.

QS, and Louis Lux I will get around to eventually but the curia places a lot more stock in applications so it takes me around 30 minutes to form one. Something I don't always have in terms of time lately.


edit:
Should address this bit, although I feel like I did already.

The problem with "new" awards is that we are not doing a very good job of recognizing and awarding those worthy of recognition now. Creating "new" awards may provide a slight rise, but once the immediate people are awarded, the award will be rarely proposed.
When Squid mentioned citizenship was an alternative he sort of hit the nail on the head. We have not have more than 30 Patrons since 2012. We have not have more than 50 applications since 2011. The large awards hve followed a similar pattern.

It will be good for people to get recognized who are just starting out, among other things, such as allowing the curia to quantify awards more easily without solely awarding those of exceptional ability.

I apologize for bolding and italicizing this but I find it upsetting and sad that only those of exceptional ability can get recognized with real awards, when I see such fantastic modders and people around who slowly stopping being active due to the lack of encouragement. Medusa0, 0TheLastTemplar0, Anarchon or heck, even cocobongoclub-dj etc. A small award that recognizes contributions but isn't quite citizenship (since a lot of times some complaints about people are 'well, they're ok! but they haven't contributed enough yet...'

A lot of times people resign their citizenship or don't want it in the first place due to all the petty drama and issues that arise in the curia. They resign it, like the many we have seen resign their citizenship or outright refuse it in the first place.

My first attempt at getting someone to become a citizen was when I talked to an extremely famous (at least to my eyes) and great modder, who has worked on integral projects that made mods like Third Age, EB2, DBM etc possible and not completely absurd.

However I was outright refused because they did not want to join the curia. I can see why, in a way, and this small award and medium would let us circumvent the issue of people refusing to participate within the curia or be associated with it.


Advantages of these awards in point form
1) Allows up and coming (beginner) modders to get some encouragement
2) Gets the curia involved instead of only rarely giving out awards that are 'exceptional' ones
3) Lets us recognize remarkable acts among the community
4) Gives us additional awards aside from Opifex to award, instead of only awarding someone only once
5) Allows those who do not want to be associated with the curia a way to get their work recognized
6) Recognizes community service among modders


Disadvantages in point form
1) The curia might actually start to care about the outside world
2) Awards activity within the curia might increase
3) The curia might profit from bribes
4) ??????

[PikeStance]

Mainly b/c they're not active any more sadly. They (alin, gustave, nazgool, paullus, moros, shigawire etc) created two mods (EB, and EB2), one of which was specifically described as breathtaking by CA and loved by the community. However they somehow have absolutely no awards for the most part, shigawire has citizenship only I think.

QS, and Louis Lux I will get around to eventually but the curia places a lot more stock in applications so it takes me around 30 minutes to form one. Something I don't always have in terms of time lately.

I actually gave this some thought. I once considered giving an award to modders who were never patronized and thus never became citizens, but yet did equal work in the field of modding. The problem you have is that the whole point of the awards is to encourage activity. If they are no longer active then the award is absolutely meaningless.

It will be good for people to get recognized who are just starting out, among other things, such as allowing the curia to quantify awards more easily without solely awarding those of exceptional ability.

I apologize for bolding and italicizing this but I find it upsetting and sad that only those of exceptional ability can get recognized with real awards, when I see such fantastic modders and people around who slowly stopping being active due to the lack of encouragement. Medusa0, 0TheLastTemplar0, Anarchon or heck, even cocobongoclub-dj etc. A small award that recognizes contributions but isn't quite citizenship (since a lot of times some complaints about people are 'well, they're ok! but they haven't contributed enough yet...'

A lot of times people resign their citizenship or don't want it in the first place due to all the petty drama and issues that arise in the curia. They resign it, like the many we have seen resign their citizenship or outright refuse it in the first place.

My first attempt at getting someone to become a citizen was when I talked to an extremely famous (at least to my eyes) and great modder, who has worked on integral projects that made mods like Third Age, EB2, DBM etc possible and not completely absurd.

However I was outright refused because they did not want to join the curia. I can see why, in a way, and this small award and medium would let us circumvent the issue of people refusing to participate within the curia or be associated with it.


Advantages of these awards in point form
1) Allows up and coming (beginner) modders to get some encouragement
2) Gets the curia involved instead of only rarely giving out awards that are 'exceptional' ones
3) Lets us recognize remarkable acts among the community
4) Gives us additional awards aside from Opifex to award, instead of only awarding someone only once
5) Allows those who do not want to be associated with the curia a way to get their work recognized
6) Recognizes community service among modders


Disadvantages in point form
1) The curia might actually start to care about the outside world
2) Awards activity within the curia might increase
3) The curia might profit from bribes
4) ??????

Two things;
1. Creating an award is not going to generate any more interest in awarding it than now. If your goal is to recognize members for contribution then, as things stand now, they still will not be recognized beyond the members you already stated. As I previously mentioned, this is the White Elephant in the room.
2. The Curia is actually two things; a collection of citizens and the institution by which grievance is made and improvement suggested. Citizenship purpose to promote activity with the reward in participating in the latter. If a person chooses to not participate because they do not like the current state, then that objectionable state will never change. This is true for any citizen who chooses to not to participate for those same reasons; by avoidance, you are perpetuating the status quo.

In a nutshell until attitudes towards the "Curia" changes then nothing is going to change. We can create 101 awards, but members will continue to go unrecognized. I would also add that standards hould return to the 2005-2006 levels and Large awards "exceptional" standard brought to a more reasonable level of contribution. (Exceptional is a subjective term).

You can see what I mean here.

[z3n]

1. Creating an award is not going to generate any more interest in awarding it than now. If your goal is to recognize members for contribution then, as things stand now, they still will not be recognized beyond the members you already stated. As I previously mentioned, this is the White Elephant in the room.

What do you mean exactly? The only award that really exists is an exceptional one, since citizenship is outright refused by some people on certain grounds. So I don't think it's fair to compare non existent awards (at present) to an award that is rarely handed out due to its focus on exceptionalism.

2. The Curia is actually two things; a collection of citizens and the institution by which grievance is made and improvement suggested. Citizenship purpose to promote activity with the reward in participating in the latter. If a person chooses to not participate because they do not like the current state, then that objectionable state will never change. This is true for any citizen who chooses to not to participate for those same reasons; by avoidance, you are perpetuating the status quo.

The curia is an awards committee. I don't think it's much of one when the only award it can really give out are for those who show 'exceptional' ability. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but it's sort of silly. You have to admit!

[PikeStance]

Or may be that' the curia that needs to change towards the members of the site
But that's another debate.
The point here is to reward modders on a more "regular" basis with the hope that they also remain active on this site. That way, it may also drag more new modders here.
I can't say if this will work but for sure, doing nothing won't.

Creating awards that will not be proposed is doing nothing.

What do you mean exactly? The only award that really exists is an exceptional one, since citizenship is outright refused by some people on certain grounds. So I don't think it's fair to compare non existent awards (at present) to an award that is rarely handed out due to its focus on exceptionalism.
The curia is an awards committee. I don't think it's much of one when the only award it can really give out are for those who show 'exceptional' ability. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but it's sort of silly. You have to admit!

Curia was never an award committee. Initially, citizenship was offered to those that have contributed to the site and "promise" to be a role model for ideal behavior. It wasn't until the patronage system was established that "individuals" were allowed outside of the committee can offer citizenship to members. The Large awards were added to recognize those that have continued to contribute to the site. Citizenship is offered to those that were overlooked.

If you want to change the perception of citizenship then it must start with citizens. It would be a healthy change if citizens themselves stop characterizing citizenship as elitist and present it as it was intended; recognition that promoted activity.

That is what needs to be addressed before this award would have any impact at all.

[Lifthrasir]

Creating awards that will not be proposed is doing nothing.

You got me wrong. I'm not saying that will be an award given after an amount of time, like after 6 months, 1 year, etc... By "regular" (and note the "" please), I meant that modders won't need to wait to make an exceptional contribution or to win a modding award to get some recognition.

Curia was never an award committee. Initially, citizenship was offered to those that have contributed to the site and "promise" to be a role model for ideal behavior. It wasn't until the patronage system was established that "individuals" were allowed outside of the committee can offer citizenship to members. The Large awards were added to recognize those that have continued to contribute to the site. Citizenship is offered to those that were overlooked.

It wasn't but it has become and still is nowadays, wether you like it or not. But again that's another debate.

If you want to change the perception of citizenship then it must start with citizens. It would be a healthy change if citizens themselves stop characterizing citizenship as elitist and present it as it was intended; recognition that promoted activity.

That is what needs to be addressed before this award would have any impact at all.

This is not about citizenship (again) but about modders on this site. And if you haven't noticed it, this can actually contribute to enhance citizenship somehow. Anyway, If the curia is not even able to recognize their activity and contributiion to this site in the most simple/modest way, then the curia has no reason to be anymore IMO.