Israel elections April 2019, September 2019, March 2020, March 2021.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

To be fair, in spite of my criticisms (the two-states solution and the Israeli nationality Law), we need to recognize that the Israeli press is completely free. As an example,the comments below are from the former PM Ehud Barak, reported in the Ha’aretz. in 2016 - Channel 10 interview.Almost unimaginable, right?

Israel has been infected by the seeds of fascism, says ex Haaretz...

There is nothing wrong with the nation-state law, we've been over this. I've explained it to you twice if not more in this thread, and you never bother to reply but keep bringing it up again and again.
Haaretz is an anti-Israel newspaper. I'll seriously take Al-Jazeera as a source over Haaretz (who blocks you from reading beyond a couple articles a month unless you pay them).

Israeli left must unite to survive. Brilliant people here
Ehud Barak, Meretz Party, Stav Shaffir.

Yes, brilliant move. It happened before the most recent election. Want to know how many new seats it netted them? 0. Literally none. Their party earned the same amount of seats as Meretz did in the election before that. The only result is that two Meretz members lost their seat to house the former Labour members. Barak isn't even in the Knesset, because his seat was too low on the list. Shows you just how popular this former prime-minister is. Shaffir left Labour because she lost the primary, a tried and tested Labour strategy of jumping ship as soon as you don't win the primary, and quitting politics as soon as you are replaced as leader.

[sumskilz]

In its early days Israel was, by and large, a socialist welfare state. Those political stances are by now virtually gone.

I get that you're speaking in relative terms, but from my American perspective, only Zehut really seems right wing economically. I'd also say that the secular right wing parties are much less socially conservative than a good portion of the Republic party, whereas the Haredi parties are more socially conservative than just about any mainstream US politician while at the same time being economically left wing. Probably what is referred to as left and right in Israel has closer parallels in Europe than in the US though, with the exception of stances on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, where I imagine only Meretz has anything like a view similar to what a typical European left-winger might have.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

I get that you're speaking in relative terms, but from my American perspective, only Zehut really seems right wing economically. I'd also say that the secular right wing parties are much less socially conservative than a good portion of the Republic party, whereas the Haredi parties are more socially conservative than just about any mainstream US politician while at the same time being economically left wing. Probably what is referred to as left and right in Israel has closer parallels in Europe than in the US though, with the exception of stances on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, where I imagine only Meretz has anything like a view similar to what a typical European left-winger might have.

Likud is also right wing economically, at least on paper. It's just not doing very well at executing those policies lately. It is after all the party that started privatisation.
When it comes to social issues, it's a mixed bag. All but the ultra-orthodox parties (not sure about the Joint list) are pro-lgbt for example, but all but perhaps Meretz and the Joint-list are opposed to mass immigration and illegal immigrants. On most other social issues, if you don't count secular issues, there is consensus between the parties.

[Ludicus]

.. where I imagine only Meretz has anything like a view similar to what a typical European left-winger might have.

Exactly.

[sumskilz]

Likud is also right wing economically, at least on paper. It's just not doing very well at executing those policies lately. It is after all the party that started privatisation.

You do have a mountain of policies already in place which would be appalling and/or seem bizarre to the average Republican or centrist Democratic voter. When I've had this conversation in detail with some Likud voters, they seemed almost unable to grasp how things could be any different, and maybe for Israel in the foreseeable future they're right.

but all but perhaps Meretz and the Joint-list are opposed to mass immigration and illegal immigrants.

I hadn't thought about that. I wonder if Joint-list voters realize they tend to be the ones most hurt by it economically. The Join-list seems to be a coalition united by nothing except ethnicity.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

You do have a mountain of policies already in place which would be appalling and/or seem bizarre to the average Republican or centrist Democratic voter. When I've had this conversation in detail with some Likud voters, they seemed almost unable to grasp how things could be any different, and maybe for Israel in the foreseeable future they're right.

Indeed, those are mostly stay over's from the socialist days, and sadly will remain in place because no majority Liberal coalition can form in the current climate of Israeli politics. The Likud is, but on it's own it can't change these policies, and it doesn't care enough to make a big issue out of it.

I hadn't thought about that. I wonder if Joint-list voters realize they tend to be the ones most hurt by it economically. The Join-list seems to be a coalition united by nothing except ethnicity.

They see the illegal immigrants from Sudan as their Arab brothers, who they assume would probably vote for them if they could, seeing as the only unifying factor of the Joint List is, like you pointed out, their ethnicity, with just 1 exception (There's one Jew who is a MK from the joint-list, because he is a member of the predominantly Arab party Hadash, a communist party).

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Some important news for the next election:
Tomorrow (26/12/19) primaries in the Likud will be held for the leadership position: Gideon Saar vs Benjamin Netanyahu.
The New Right party, led by now minister of defence Naftali Bennet, will run independently from the block it was part of, meanwhile Jewish home announced the establishment of a block together with Otzma LeIsrael (far-right), who had been left on their own last election and didn't make it into parliament.
Stav Shapir has split off from the Democratic Camp party that had only just been created last election, and will run independently as "The Greens". She declared that "the left is a sinking ship".
Moshe Feiglin has announced that his party, Zehut, will not participate in the coming election.
Blue & White's number 2, Yair Lapid, has announced that in the interest of winning the election he will forgo the agreed upon rotation agreement with the party leader, Benjamin Gantz.

[conon394]

Some important news for the next election:
Tomorrow (26/12/19) primaries in the Likud will be held for the leadership position: Gideon Saar vs Benjamin Netanyahu.
The New Right party, led by now minister of defence Naftali Bennet, will run independently from the block it was part of, meanwhile Jewish home announced the establishment of a block together with Otzma LeIsrael (far-right), who had been left on their own last election and didn't make it into parliament.
Stav Shapir has split off from the Democratic Camp party that had only just been created last election, and will run independently as "The Greens". She declared that "the left is a sinking ship".
Moshe Feiglin has announced that his party, Zehut, will not participate in the coming election.
Blue & White's number 2, Yair Lapid, has announced that in the interest of winning the election he will forgo the agreed upon rotation agreement with the party leader, Benjamin Gantz.

Do people do office pools on this kind of thing because from the US with fairly boring party structures this seems a bit like it needs brackets and gambling to be really fun.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Do people do office pools on this kind of thing because from the US with fairly boring party structures this seems a bit like it needs brackets and gambling to be really fun.

I'm not sure what "office pools" means, and I'm not aware of any gambling on the results, though there very well could be.

Speaking of results, Netanyahu has, unsurprisingly, won the Likud primaries, reportedly by a large margin.

[conon394]

I'm not sure what "office pools" means, and I'm not aware of any gambling on the results, though there very well could be.

Office pool a bracketed with and without side options friendly betting game on something. Usually sports in some tournament. But potentially anything of interest. Not real gambling per say but potentially has a pot of buy in money is in the offing. Depending on who runs the game you can have simply a pick the winner or pick all kinds of things up for points to make a victory but usually over a time so everyone can watch the point race or choices develop. So for example I would have had the Likud vote be part. Pick a winner. Pick a margin of win etc earn some points (depends on the person running it just pick a win for a defined set allowed points or pick a win and try and name a 'score' for a bonus or loss for example) When I ran them at my biotech the buy in was ~20 -50 bucks and the a case of proper beer for the runner, 1st, 2nd, 3rd gets a the pot (60/30/10). I usually did winter Olympics (company was in Michigan and had a lot Swedes via secondary location) or anything but basketball. I did a Presidential election as well but it was bit harder with so much in the US sort of pre fixed early in the year I tried it. I did a Canadian election once which was fun because everyone had to research Canadian politics

To be fair there are more traditional bracket systems for just sports playoffs but I find them boring and usually ignore them but somebody else here might be able to speak for them.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Office pool a bracketed with and without side options friendly betting game on something. Usually sports in some tournament. But potentially anything of interest. Not real gambling per say but potentially has a pot of buy in money is in the offing. Depending on who runs the game you can have simply a pick the winner or pick all kinds of things up for points to make a victory but usually over a time so everyone can watch the point race or choices develop. So for example I would have had the Likud vote be part. Pick a winner. Pick a margin of win etc earn some points (depends on the person running it just pick a win for a defined set allowed points or pick a win and try and name a 'score' for a bonus or loss for example) When I ran them at my biotech the buy in was ~20 -50 bucks and the a case of proper beer for the runner, 1st, 2nd, 3rd gets a the pot (60/30/10). I usually did winter Olympics (company was in Michigan and had a lot Swedes via secondary location) or anything but basketball. I did a Presidential election as well but it was bit harder with so much in the US sort of pre fixed early in the year I tried it. I did a Canadian election once which was fun because everyone had to research Canadian politics

To be fair there are more traditional bracket systems for just sports playoffs but I find them boring and usually ignore them but somebody else here might be able to speak for them.

I'm sure that exists in some form, I'm just not personally aware of it. Thanks for the explanation

Final results are in, Netanyahu won with 72.5% of the vote.

[conon394]

Final results are in, Netanyahu won with 72.5% of the vote.

So two questions what is his legal status at this point does he really need to PM to try and avoid a trial or just in the Knesset. And the quick take says Sa'ar ran to the 'right' of Netanyahu but lost even though he is not indited. From what I read American media wise I am curious how vexing is the ultra orthodox no military service question for real which seems to have lost Netanyahu his majority coalition.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Netanyahu is still trying to get immunity, in the meantime nothing has changed in his status.
Sa'ar lost because he is not nearly as popular as Netanyahu. Netanyahu also has the advantage of being the incumbent prime minister.
It's only vexing because Liberman decided to re-brand himself. He was happy to sit in every Netanyahu coalition before that but then decided that if he doesn't get himself some kind of new image, in this case being "secular-right wing", his party will disappear from parliament within an election or two. And it worked, at the low low price of what is soon to be 3 elections.

[Papay]

It seems that Likud won again but, again falls short of a majority. 4th elections coming?

[nhytgbvfeco2]

It seems that Likud won again but, again falls short of a majority. 4th elections coming?

These are not yet final results, those will be tomorrow.

[Papay]

Netanyahu coalition takes 58 seats so unless something dramatic happens, Israel will go for a forth election

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Netanyahu coalition takes 58 seats so unless something dramatic happens, Israel will go for a forth election

Yep, seems to be the case. Likud made an impressive gain of 4 seats while blue and white didn't gain (or lose) any, while Likud's ally Yamina lost 1. A gain of 3 seats, but still not enough.
The biggest losers, hands down, are the Israeli left. Before the election Meretz and Labour (+Gesher) had merged into a single party, each had 5 seats before the election. Now, they have a combined 7. Of those 7, a whopping 2 seats are Meretz, and 4 are Labour. This is the weakest that the Israeli left has ever been.

[Papay]

Yep, seems to be the case. Likud made an impressive gain of 4 seats while blue and white didn't gain (or lose) any, while Likud's ally Yamina lost 1. A gain of 3 seats, but still not enough.
The biggest losers, hands down, are the Israeli left. Before the election Meretz and Labour (+Gesher) had merged into a single party, each had 5 seats before the election. Now, they have a combined 7. Of those 7, a whopping 2 seats are Meretz, and 4 are Labour. This is the weakest that the Israeli left has ever been.

Arabs on the other hand have taken a record of 15 seats and their coalition stabilizes as a third force. While all parties reject cooperation with them, they are incapable of solving the current political crisis

[Slydessertfox]

Haaretz is an anti-Israel newspaper. .

Haaretz is the longest running print newspaper in Israel. What you appear to be saying Haaretz doesn't agree with your own vision of the state Israel should be, and thus must be treated as illegitimate. Which would say a lot more about you than it does about Haaretz.

In any case, this was them quoting Ehud Barak. Is he now anti-Israel too?

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Arabs on the other hand have taken a record of 15 seats and their coalition stabilizes as a third force. While all parties reject cooperation with them, they are incapable of solving the current political crisis

The Joint list itself refuses to join all coalitions, so it's mutual (yes, they said they would join Gantz if he accepted their unreasonable demands, which he never would. It's a PR stunt). They have terrorist sympathisers in their party (A recent addition called Samir Quntar, the man most famous for bashing the head of a 4 year old girl with his rifle against a rock, a Shahid), no one in their right mind would form a coalition with them.

Haaretz is the longest running print newspaper in Israel. What you appear to be saying Haaretz doesn't agree with your own vision of the state Israel should be, and thus must be treated as illegitimate. Which would say a lot more about you than it does about Haaretz.

I'm well aware that Haaretz originates in Israel. However it is heavily, heavily biased against Israel. To the point where I would consider Al-Jazeera, or hell maybe even Al-Masdar, a more impartial source. Beyond that, however, Haaretz limits the number of articles you can read behind a paywall, which makes for a terrible source to quote as I may simply be unable to even read the article to properly address it.

In any case, this was them quoting Ehud Barak. Is he now anti-Israel too?

Ehud Barak is a relic of the past, a terrible former prime minister, who's popularity was put on show when he merged with Meretz during the previous election round and didn't even increase their number of seats by 1 (not to mention failed to get into parliament and once again quit politics).
Barack himself isn't a particularly great man to take inspiration from either, considering that during his tenure as head of labour he joined a coalition headed by.. you guessed it, Netanyahu. Barack is just another sleazy politician, not some political Guru.