Israel elections April 2019, September 2019, March 2020, March 2021.

[sumskilz]

Intersesting stuff, thanks to sumskilz and feco2!

As a side question, why is living in Israel so expensive?

In line with what nhytgbvfeco2 said. Seems to be mostly taxes, shortages, and protectionism. For example, when you buy car, its price has already been inflated by almost 50% due to various commercial import charges. Yet you still have to pay 50% vehicle tax on that inflated price, and then you have to pay 17% VAT on the inflated price plus 50%. That’s right, you have to pay taxes on the taxes you just paid, because your car is now artificially worth more (except only in Israel, not compared to the world). Commercial importers of all types don’t just have to pay taxes on the value of what they import plus tariffs, etc., they also have to pay tax on the insurance they paid on the shipping and the cost of transport. Manufacturers actually in Israel can then raise their own prices up to match everything imported and still be competitive.

For housing, there are shortages nearby where most people have a better chance at making a higher wage, which also happen to be the safest places to live, so the housing prices there get inflated to the point that the higher potential local wage (if you can get it) isn’t really getting you much more than location.


Israel needs the ridiculously high taxes to keep the government running, but the ridiculously high taxes stifle economic growth (that could be taxed in the future). Because of all the import BS, Israeli companies mostly manufacture in other countries, because with all the taxes on importing components and materials and then taxes on exports, they couldn’t be competitive otherwise, so they create way more jobs outside the country than inside. Israel is a major arms exporter for example, but I remember reading something like 70% of what Rafael manufactures is actually in the US in collaboration with Raytheon. Which sounds to me more like it’s being exported from the US.

[Morifea]

@sumskilz and feco2: Thank you both, those insights make the picture more nuanced... no longer the land where milk and honey flows, I´m afraid :-(

After reading sumskilz Post, the big IT Sector in Israel makes sense... and btw, Taxes on Taxes are also possible in Germany.

[sumskilz]

and btw, Taxes on Taxes are also possible in Germany.

As an American, I just find it inconceivable... Although, our country was kind of founded on not paying taxes... literally.

Ayelet Shaked just called me from a private number, all shouting and in a panic. I'm pretty sure it was a recording though, I couldn't get her to calm down.

[Ludicus]

you don't have any sympathy for whatever bad happens to kids because their parents chose to cross a border illegally

When you draw an analogy between two things, you compare them for the purpose of explanation. Analogies should make sense to us. What you are saying doesn't make any sense. I don't feel any sympathy for Trump's horrific behaviour 'Trump is literally deporting kids with cancer': New immigration rule and I don't feel sympathy for the illegal, systematic, expansive colonization of the Palestine.Today, between 600,000/750,000 Israelis live in these illegal settlements.

territorial maximalism from the Israeli right is really what allowed settlements to flourish

That's because the US has given the state of Israel a free pass to do whatever it likes, regardless of systematic violation of international law or concern for human rights, including "legislate anywhere in the world, entitled to violate the sovereignty of foreign countries, and allowed to ignore the directives of international law in any field it desires". (previous post)
Netanyahu: 'We are a Rising Superpower' | The Jewish Press

[Prodromos]

Remember that no one is actually opposed to Israeli settlers; they're against Jewish settlers. Arab Israeli settlers are perfectly fine.

A Jew whose family has lived in Israel for 2000 years has no right to move to East Jerusalem, but an Arab descendant of Sudanese immigrants from the early 1900s has a human right to live in Ashdod, Jerusalem, Bethlehem or anywhere he wants, really.

[Love Mountain]

Remember that no one is actually opposed to Israeli settlers; they're against Jewish settlers. Arab Israeli settlers are perfectly fine.

A Jew whose family has lived in Israel for 2000 years has no right to move to East Jerusalem, but an Arab descendant of Sudanese immigrants from the early 1900s has a human right to live in Ashdod, Jerusalem, Bethlehem or anywhere he wants, really.

I've never seen anybody make that distinction, yet I don't find myself particularly caring over it. I'm assuming, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are attempting to draw attention to a double standard of racism and state sovereignty. Yet the larger issue, is that Jewish settlements in the West Bank infringe on Palestinian rights and self-government. Israel does not allow a full Palestinian state to exist, yet they do not treat Palestinians as civic equals. At the same time, a solution may be to seek separated societies, yet Israel does not permit that situation to occur either by allowing settlements to expand.

In that context, what possible relevance does opposition to strictly Jewish settlers, rather than Arab settlers, have to the situation?

[sumskilz]

When you draw an analogy between two things, you compare them for the purpose of explanation. Analogies should make sense to us. What you are saying doesn't make any sense.

Considering the rep comments I received on that one observation, I'm pretty sure the hypocrisy is clear enough. The analogy isn't about your stance on any government's policy. Those people went to live in the West Bank of their own volition. They bought that apartment building from a Palestinian property developer named Faez Rajabi who had purchased the vacant property from its previous Palestinian owner. The problem is selling property to Jews is illegal under Palestinian law, in fact it is a capital offense. When the situation started to get public attention, Rajabi no doubt fearing for his life, claimed that he had never sold the building and that the settlers had just occupied it by force, this was later proven to be false. It was also not an atypical situation.

Based on the context of your comment, I'm not sure if you meant you have no sympathy for their families being violently attacked by Palestinians or whether your lack of sympathy for their families was limited to not caring about the trauma and injuries they experienced in being forcibly evicted by the Israeli government. Assuming it's only the latter, I doubt you would have a lack of sympathy if a video similar to the one I posted surfaced of US immigration enforcement and the US national guard forcibly evicting entire families of illegal immigrants from their homes in a similar manner.

The Green Line is not an international border, but if we pretend it is, then those people's only crime is crossing a border illegally. Their children committed no crime. Of course Israelis know that the Green Line is not an international border, so they know that those people's only crime is being Jews where Jews are not wanted. So naturally, forcibly evicting them causes sympathy for them even among Israelis who have no interest in the West Bank. One can recognize that, while still thinking Jewish settlement in the West Bank is a bad idea for the prospects of a two state solution, and while still opposing any Israeli government policies facilitating settlement.

I've never seen anybody make that distinction

They don't really do so explicitly, it's implicit in their conception of reality and the historical narrative they subscribe to.

As for the election, it looks like polls were right. Neither the center-left nor the right wing coalition have enough control to form a government without Liberman. As I said before, Liberman wants a unity government without the religious parties.

Exit polls:



The magic number is 61. The vote counts so far are in the same neighborhood.

EDIT:

Liberman laid out his demands — a secular wishlist including an ultra-Orthodox military draft, public transportation and commerce on Shabbat, Haredi secular education and other measures — and said he did not plan on speaking to any other party leaders until they meet his preconditions.

Reiterating call for unity, kingmaker Liberman sets out list of secular demands

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Exit polls:



The magic number is 61. The vote counts so far are in the same neighborhood.

EDIT:
Reiterating call for unity, kingmaker Liberman sets out list of secular demands

Somewhat misleading. The United list's seats here are added under the category of "center-left", however they ought to be separate, as they wouldn't join a center-left coalition (or any coalition for that matter).

With 91% of votes counted, the current results, in number of seats, are as follows:
32 - Blue And White (centre-left)
31 - Likud (centre-right)
13 - Joint list (Arab, ranging from Islamist to Communist)
9 - Shas (ultra-Orthodox Sephardi)
9 - Israel Beitenu (Lieberman)
8 - United Torah Judaism (ultra-orthodox Ashkenazi)
7 - Right (right, shockingly)
6 - Labour-Gesher (left)
5 - Democratic camp (left/far-left)
0 - Otzma Yehudit (far-right)

This leaves us with 55 seats that support only Netanyahu (Supposedly), 43 that support only Gantz (Supposedly), 9 with Lieberman and 13 with the United list (might aswell think that there are only 107 seats, because those 13 aren't joining any coalition).
All in all, Netanyahu definitely lost power this election, his "coalition" going from 60 seats to 55. Still, he is in a better position to form a government than Gantz. Any 1 party joining Netanyahu (with the exception of the democratic camp, but that wouldn't happen anyway) would be enough to form a coalition, meanwhile Gantz is missing 18 seats, which would require a minimum of 2 parties joining him. His position is further complicated by both the UTJ and Shas declaring that they won't sit in a coalition with the number 2 in his party, Yair Lapid, with whom he has a rotation agreement (Gantz would be PM for the first 2 years, Lapid the next 2). This means that it's simply impossible for Gantz to gain the necessary number of seats, unless Likud somehow splinters. A party that is more likely to splinter, however, is Blue and white, a combination of 3 parties with members whose ideology ranges from right wing to left wing, including former Likud Member Moshe Ya'alon.

[Ludicus]

Those people went to live in the West Bank of their own volition. They bought that apartment building from a Palestinian property developer named Faez Rajabi who had purchased the vacant property from its previous Palestinian owner...

...certainly an an exceptional/particular case.I don't have sympathy for the illegal process of colonization of Palestine, period.What really matters,
Six-Month Report on Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank including East Jerusalem

There are currently approximately 215,000 Israelis living in East Jerusalem while the settler population in Area C in the occupied West Bank, excluding East Jerusalem, is some 399,300. This brings the settler population to approximately 600,000 Israeli settlers in 143 locations in the West Bank (132) including East Jerusalem (11)[2]. According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics 4.6% of the total Israeli population resides today in the Occupied West Bank excluding East Jerusalem.Through recent settlement activity, Israel continues to reinforce existing settlements and the separation of East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank and is exacerbating the territorial fragmentation of the West Bank.
Settlements are illegal under international law as reaffirmed by UN Security Council Resolution 2334 (2016), The developments on the ground make the prospect of a two-state solution increasingly unattainable.

-----
A recent survey finds Arabs more open than Jews to political cooperation. Time has come for a Joint List+Gantz to re-enter negotiations with the P.A., endorse a two- state solution, and amend the racist nation law.




Joint List to present list of demands to Gantz in ... - The Times of Israel

Blue and White has established a back channel to communicate with the Joint List...
These include freezing home demolitions in unrecognized Arab villages, forming a team to examine the issue of those villages, passing a government decision on battling violence within the Arab sector, canceling the controversial nation-state law — which enshrines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people — and initiating a peace process with the Palestinian Authority.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Time has come for a Joint List+Gantz to re-enter negotiations with the P.A., endorse a two- state solution, and amend the racist nation law.

Can't and won't happen. Gantz's own party would fall apart if he were to do that. The joint list is comprised of parties that are communist, Arab-nationalist and Islamist. The quickest way for Netanyahu to form a coalition would be for Gantz to say that he would form one with the Joint list.
There's nothing racist about the nation state law. We've been over this many times now, and you still fail to respond to me every time I explain why it isn't.

Joint List to present list of demands to Gantz in ... - The Times of Israel

These demands are for show. The percentage of Arabs voting has been declining over the years because voting for the Arab parties is pointless because they won't ever join a coalition, and thus will never pass any laws or do anything useful to help the Arab population. So in a trick to attract voters and give them hope, they published these demands, that they know that neither the Likud nor Blue and White will meet. About as genuine as Netanyahu's calls for a unity government.

Just a slight update on the results I posted earlier, with soldier votes counted Blue and white gained an extra seat while Lieberman lost one.

[Ludicus]

Can't and won't happen. Gantz's own party would fall apart if he were to do that...

I see...well, the last time Arab parties backed a candidate was in 1992. Rabin was assassinated on 1995.

There's nothing racist about the nation state law. We've been over this many times now, and you still fail to respond to me every time I explain why it isn't.

It's not difficult to understand that the racist law codifies discrimination against Palestinians through the exclusive recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination in the land of Israel,and entrenches an apartheid system in Israel through the selective status awarded to Hebrew and the removal of Arabic as an official language.
Netanyahu is right: Israel is a nation with no interest in equality |Guardian.

----
----


Amal Assad, one of the leading Druze activists who served as officer in the Israeli Defense Forces, said that Gantz's addressing the rally was a good sign and a gives him hope that the legislation will indeed be amended.

In first public statement, Benny Gantz vows to 'fix' nation-state law

Netanyahu's Likud party slammed Gantz's "attack of the nation-state law" Monday and added that "everyone knows the obvious: Gantz is left-wing

Oh dear.

[sumskilz]

The screen in the lower left of that picture is right next to where Rabin was shot.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

I see...well, the last time Arab parties backed a candidate was in 1992. Rabin was assassinated on 1995.

And yet Balad, part of the joint list, and it's 3 members did not back him, thus Gantz only got 10 seats of their 13, and ended up with 1 seat fewer in support of him than Netanyahu, meaning Netanyahu will most likely get the job of creating a coalition first.

It's not difficult to understand that the racist law codifies discrimination against Palestinians through the exclusive recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination in the land of Israel,and entrenches an apartheid system in Israel through the selective status awarded to Hebrew and the removal of Arabic as an official language.

How is that Apartheid? Is France an apartheid state because it doesn't have any official languages other than French, despite having many other peoples living in it, such as the Bretons? The USA doesn't have an official language at all, is it apartheid targeting everyone?
Yes, it says that Israel is the nation state of the Jews. That was the very purpose for the creation of the state in the first place. It's not the world's only nation state, doesn't make it racist.

Netanyahu is right: Israel is a nation with no interest in equality |Guardian.

Ugh. I've already explained the meaning of "state of all it's citizens" to you. Portugal is also not a state of all its citizens by the Israeli definition, yet you wouldn't say that Portugal has no interest in equality.
The arguments the article brings are laughable. The admission committees target Jews as much as Arabs. Palestinian history isn't taught in state schools because.. why should it be? Can you study Ugandan history in a state school in France? You'd lose state funding for making your play paint the state as an evil oppressor and that's bad because..? Why should tax payer money be given by the state to someone who uses it to promote hatred of the state? hello?

[Yayattasa]

And yet Balad, part of the joint list, and it's 3 members did not back him, thus Gantz only got 10 seats of their 13, and ended up with 1 seat fewer in support of him than Netanyahu, meaning Netanyahu will most likely get the job of creating a coalition first.

I read that's not true and that Balad has to follow JL's prerogatives, unless it's dissolved first.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

I read that's not true and that Balad has to follow JL's prerogatives, unless it's dissolved first.

What is that based on? First time I hear of this, and I don't think that it's true

[Ludicus]

Now, what is going to happen next?...new elections?
I don't have unrealistic expectations. For Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, Netanyahu and Gantz are two sides of the same coin, Pepsi v Coke...
It seems that Gantz recently boasted of sending parts of Gaza to the Stone Age.
Gantz's Stone Age - Haaretz Cartoon - Israel News | Haaretz.com

Gantz’s first public declaration, that he would work to fix the nation-state law, was important and instilled hope in his potential voters... How can a decent person who seeks to become prime minister boast that the army under his leadership sent back to the Stone Age parts of Gaza, a place where 2 million people live in terrible conditions, a place known as “the world’s largest prison,” where there are severe shortages of electricity, water, infrastructure, medical services and food. With all due respect to the war on terror, there is no justification for a video that celebrates a body count as if this were just some computer game.

The Observer view on the threat posed to Israel by ... - The Guardian

Netanyahu’s critics say he has surpassed himself this time, running the “nastiest, most racist campaign that will go down is Israel's history (1)”, according to Yossi Verter, a Haaretz columnist

(1)... I quote the Haaretz,

When historians come to study this period, they will find it difficult to explain to their students what in the blazes happened to this intelligent nation – to this “special race,” in the words of Likud MK Makhlouf “Miki” Zohar.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

(1)... I quote the Haaretz,

You really shouldn't. It's a terrible source (not to mention pay to read beyond 1 or 2 articles a month).

[conon394]

You really shouldn't. It's a terrible source (not to mention pay to read beyond 1 or 2 articles a month).

So new elections?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ion-government

[Papay]

Also Netanyahu is being indicted on corruption charges

[Ludicus]

Also Netanyahu is being indicted on corruption charges

He was here, yesterday.Pompeo Meets Netanyahu in Lisbon to Talk Iran - WSJ

According to the Jerusalem Post, Benjamin Netanyahu | The Jerusalem Post

Netanyahu argued that he has unique abilities to bolster US-Israel ties.
When Netanyahu briefed reporters (1) at the end of the trip in an overcrowded meeting room at the Four Seasons Ritz, drinking a double espresso and “jumping water,” as he jokingly called his bottle of seltzer, he made it clear that looking statesmanlike was on his mind.
If you were really objective,” he scoffed at the end of the briefing, journalists would have asked about Israel coming in eighth place in the US News and World Report’s ranking of powerful countries.
Netanyahu pointed to Russia’s ranking, second place, and wondered why out loud, saying that “They have an economy like Spain’s.”
“Look at the criteria,” he said. “What we’ve done in the past 10 years is bring Israel to record heights and unparalleled power.”
Then Netanyahu walked out, leaving the journalists to solve the riddle.

(1) Guess what - Israel /US barred the entrance of Portuguese journalists, without explanations.
Bloqueio a jornalistas portugueses no encontro Pompeo ...
Jornalistas portugueses impedidos de fotografar - Expresso

I can't say I'm surprised, Portugal “resists US appeal to bar Huawei from 5G network
-----
Edit,
Furthermore, on the issue of the Israeli colonates, Pompeo put pressure on the Portuguese government, but he was unsuccessful. We said that our position/the position of the EU has not changed. The colonates are illegal.
Let's keep in mind that the UK said no to the meeting,
Netanyahu's London trip to meet Pompeo said nixed after veto ...

The Haaretz newspaper reported that the British officials were unhappy that this was to be the second time in recent months that Netanyahu planned a trip to London just to meet with US officials

We know the reason,
U.S. told to stay out of British politics as Pompeo wades into into Labour's anti-Semitism row
Pompeo tells Jewish leaders he will 'push back' against Britain's

They cannot accept a "no".But we don't have to agree on everything. Trade relations between Israel and Portugal countries have never been better, and from the political/ diplomatic point of view they will have their high point with the visit of our President to Israel in next January, as part of the Holocaust memorial day.
I would like to remember that tens of thousands of Israelis participated/voted in the last elections in Portugal, four years after Portugal approved a law granting citizenship. There are now tens of thousands of other Israelis who are in the process of obtaining citizenship and there are another three million potential beneficiaries- according to the data released by David Yadid Law Office & Notary, an Israeli law firm focusing on helping clients in the process of obtaining foreign citizenship, as well as in assisting Holocaust survivors.
It was not a nice attitude.