View Poll Results: Which party would you vote for?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Likud (Conservative)

    3 12.00%
  • Jewish Home (Right-Wing)

    0 0%
  • Yesh Atid (Centrism)

    0 0%
  • Labour (Center-Left)

    1 4.00%
  • New Right (right-wing)

    1 4.00%
  • Joint Union (Israeli Arab)

    3 12.00%
  • Kulanu (Center)

    0 0%
  • Shas (Sephardic-Mizrahi Orthodoxy)

    1 4.00%
  • United Torah Judaism (Ashkenazi Orthodoxy)

    0 0%
  • Yachad (Ultra-Orthodoxy)

    0 0%
  • Hatnuah (Liberalism)

    0 0%
  • Ta'al (Arab Nationalism)

    3 12.00%
  • Israel Resilience Party (Center-Right)

    0 0%
  • Metetz (Green-Left)

    8 32.00%
  • Yisrael Beiteinu (Zionism)

    0 0%
  • Gesher (Right-Wing)

    1 4.00%
  • Zehut (Libertarianism)

    3 12.00%
  • Other (Please, specify)

    1 4.00%
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Thread: Israel elections April 2019, September 2019, March 2020, March 2021.

  1. #161
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post

    You have yet to provide evidence of this being at all relevant to the Israeli election. I don't see the point of continuing this discussion unless you do. If you want to discuss anti-sjw (read: sane) individuals you are welcome to start your own thread.
    Israel has "youtube" just like USA, Brazil, Italy etc. The prime arguments of far rightists(with whom Netanyahu has allied with) are practically the same.
    Anti-leftism, anti-immigrant, anti-feminism etc. Which would be fine by me if these arguments were coherent and not deceiving like they are. These arguments involve fake outrage, promoting minor incidents, terrible use of straw man and never debating leftists but only people with similar beliefs.

  2. #162

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    Israel has "youtube" just like USA, Brazil, Italy etc. The prime arguments of far rightists(with whom Netanyahu has allied with) are practically the same.
    Anti-leftism, anti-immigrant, anti-feminism etc. Which would be fine by me if these arguments were coherent and not deceiving like they are.
    You're in no position to be critiquing the coherency of anyone's arguments considering the non sequitur you just used to justify this bizarre attempt to shoehorn your pet issue into an unrelated thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #163
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    Israel has "youtube" just like USA, Brazil, Italy etc. The prime arguments of far rightists(with whom Netanyahu has allied with) are practically the same.
    Anti-leftism, anti-immigrant, anti-feminism etc. Which would be fine by me if these arguments were coherent and not deceiving like they are. These arguments involve fake outrage, promoting minor incidents, terrible use of straw man and never debating leftists but only people with similar beliefs.
    So no evidence?
    The issue of race isn't a subject in Israeli elections, because Jews aren't a race in the traditional western sense, but a "nation". Jews are of all races, and I'll tell you a secret: most of those in Israel who vote right wing are the non-white Jews (excluding Russians). Here, have a look at this article, scroll down to the bottom and see the numbers for Ashkenazi(white), and then comprate to the number for mizrahi/Sephardic(middle eastern):https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tim...e-bennett/amp/. Note that while this isn't for the current election, the trend is still the same.

    Additionally, there's no "anti-immigrant" party, and no anti-feminism party because that simply isn't a relevant issue in Israeli society.
    Simply put, none of the issues you say these people have in common are relevant to the Israeli elections.

    As a side note, I know for certain that out of the people you listed, at the very least Paul Joseph Watson opposes Israel, and I'm sure there could be a couple more. That's something that would certainly make them less popular in Israel.

  4. #164
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    The poll is still open. I don't participate, because i simply don't know enough. What does it mean if some Westerner adds a number to a vote on TWC. However, my trust in the competence and diligence of the state of Israel is unshakeable.

  5. #165
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    I also did not vote in the poll with this thread, but my instincts as a conservative would be to vote for the people currently in office until it is time to kick them out regardless of party.

  6. #166
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    I also did not vote in the poll with this thread, but my instincts as a conservative would be to vote for the people currently in office until it is time to kick them out regardless of party.
    Netanyahu has been in office for 13 years now (though not in a row), so it could be argued that the time has arrived. Israel has no term limit.

  7. #167

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Netanyahu has been in office for 13 years now (though not in a row), so it could be argued that the time has arrived. Israel has no term limit.
    Then I suggest you people get working on a term limit right now - even if it won't affect Netanyahu, at least you'll be safe from getting stuck with the local equivalent of Merkel in the future.

  8. #168
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    With Netanyahu's failure to create a coalition, Israel is heading for new elections on the 17th of September (date not final). This comes after failed negotiations with Lieberman's party Israel Beitenu, without whom Netanyahu's coalition reaches 60 seats, 1 short of the needed number. The cause for the failure is Lieberman's insistence on conscripting the ultra-orthodox, a move which the ultra-orthodox parties naturally oppose.
    In preparation for said election, the Likud party absorbed the smaller Kulanu, who currently hold 4 seats and were at risk of holding none in case of a reelection.

  9. #169

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post
    Is anyone surprised? Netanyahu is damned if he does and also if he doesn't.
    Called it, it was obvious all along.

    ---

    BTW, there's a third way still open:

    Hours to Deadline: Netanyahu Races to Dissolve Knesset, Send Israel to New Election


    These are the three possible scenarios that could unfold today: Netanyahu could achieve a breakthrough in stalled negotiations before midnight and succeed in forming a governing coalition; Netanyahu could fail in talks and the Knesset could vote to dissolve itself, sending Israel to a snap election; the premier can fail to form a coalition but also fail to convince lawmakers to break up the parliament, thus returning the mandate to President Reuven Rivlin. In such a case as the latter, Rivlin would choose a different lawmaker for the task of forming the government.
    ---

    New elections it is.
    Last edited by Yayattasa; May 29, 2019 at 05:19 PM.


  10. #170

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post
    Called it, it was obvious all along.
    It's the natural result of Netanyahu relying on a coalition made up of parties with mutually exclusive agendas. It's the same reason you can't trust Netanyahu to actually support whatever he seems to support in any given context. He's always caught in a tug of war between parties who each have the power to bring the government down.

    Now check this out:

    As the clock ticked down toward the midnight deadline, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seemed to be running out of options to build a majority government, his Likud negotiators were revealed to have been offering a desperate array of goodies to unlikely saviors from opposition parties — apparently to no avail.

    Minute by minute on Wednesday evening, fresh revelations emerged.

    It turned out that Labor’s leader Avi Gabbay had received overtures to join forces with Netanyahu, along with as many of his five fellow Labor MKs as possible, and had seriously weighed the offer before rejecting it.

    In return, Gabbay’s Labor was offered various ministries — including the Finance Ministry that Likud has also promised to Moshe Kahlon; he was promised that Netanyahu would abandon his efforts to pass anti-democratic legislation aimed at protecting the prime minister from prosecution; MK Shelly Yachimovich was to be given the Justice Ministry; senior Labor MK Amir Peretz was even reportedly promised the presidency when Reuven Rivlin’s term is over.

    Simultaneously, Netanyahu’s negotiators were trying to woo various members of Benny Gantz’s Blue and White party.

    Here, the promises included no fewer than five ministries, various ambassadorships, the promise to expedite the immigration to Israel of thousands of Falashmura community members from Ethiopia (to woo Pnina Tamano-Shata, an MK of Ethiopian origin), and to change the controversial nation-state law to benefit the Druze community (to appeal to Gadeer Mreeh, a Druze MK).
    PM offers ministries, law changes, even presidency, in frantic bid for majority

    That's interesting. So why the apparent desperation? From the polls so far, it seems the right-wing collation, and Likud in particular after a merger, are likely to come out stronger, so that's not it.

    Well, just maybe it's this:

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s associates have reportedly told the premier that snap elections would likely deny him the time needed to pass legislation shielding him from prosecution in three corruption cases.
    But then he was reportedly trying to bring Gabbay on board with a promise that he'd abandon the effort, and of course, promising him a ministry he had already promised to Kahlon.

    There is a lot of talk about whether or not Liberman is deliberately trying to bring down Netanyahu or just standing on principle. Going back to Liberman's resignation as defense minister:

    Yisrael Beytenu chairman Avigdor Liberman announced Wednesday that he would be resigning as defense minister and called for the government to be dismantled and for new elections to be set.

    “I am here to announce my resignation from the government,” he said at a hastily organized press conference at the Knesset after a Yisrael Beytenu party meeting, during which he told MKs of his decision.

    Liberman said his decision came in light of the ceasefire reportedly agreed on Tuesday between Israel and Palestinian terror groups in Gaza following an unprecedentedly fierce two-day barrage of over 400 rockets fired by Hamas and other terror groups toward Israel.

    A day earlier, Liberman and other ministers severely criticized Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the decision.

    “What happened yesterday, the ceasefire, together with the deal with Hamas, is a capitulation to terror. There is no other way of explaining it,” he told reporters on Wednesday.

    “What we are doing right now is buying quiet for a heavy price with no long-term plan to reduce violence toward us,” he said of the deal, which wasn’t officially confirmed by Israeli officials. He also slammed the military’s response to the rocket fire. “To put it lightly, our response was drastically lacking to the 500 rockets fired at us,” he said.

    Liberman also directly criticized Netanyahu, saying he “fundamentally disagreed with him” on a number of key issues, including the government’s allowing $15 million to be transferred in cash from the Qatari government to Hamas on Friday.

    “I opposed it. The prime minister needed to write an executive order for it to go above my head,” Liberman claimed, saying that the money went first to the families of Hamas members killed on the Gaza border in clashes with the IDF and then to funding for rockets to fire at Israel.

    He said that he made his decision because “I could not remain [in office] and still be able to look residents of the south in the eyes.”

    Liberman concluded his prepared statement by calling for elections to be held “at the soonest possible date.” During a subsequent question-and-answer session he predicted that right-wing voters would “see through the other parties’ hypocrisy” and reward his Yisrael Beytenu party with 20 Knesset seats.
    They ended up with five, but it showcases the fact that Liberman's differences with Netanyahu are as much of an issue as his differences with the Haredi parties, and that he has a strategy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #171
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    The agenda's weren't always mutually exclusive, Lieberman has been a member of all of Netanyahu's coalitions during his consecutive terms, all but one of those together with the ultra-orthodox parties, even having merged with it at one point to form Likud Beitenu.
    I personally think this is an attempt to restore some of his previous reputation, seeing the near collapse of his party during this election, and the damage done to his image after having promised that if he would become minister of defence he would give Hamas's leader Hanniya 48 hours to return the bodies of soldiers of he's dead, and failing to come close to delivering on his promise after being defence minister for over 2 years, a period somewhat longer than 48 hours.
    The real reason that Netanyahu failed is that the party New Right failed by a tiny margin to pass the voter threshold.

  12. #172

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    I'm not that fan for parliamentarian, but it really has a democratic edge in that a successful coalition must cater to half of the elected, and thus their electorate. That helps to shape the government in a way that is not that radically different from voters' inclinations, and helps to tone down tribal mentality in politics (you can't offend all your contestants during elections, you tipically need some of them to form a government).


  13. #173
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    It's certainly more representative than first past the post, I only wish you could mark two answers in a ballot so that if your party doesn't pass the voter threshold the vote doesn't go to waste.
    Last edited by nhytgbvfeco2; May 30, 2019 at 04:09 PM.

  14. #174

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    It's certainly more representative than first past the post, I only wish you could mark two answers in a ballot so that if your party doesn't pass the voter threshold the vote doesn't go to waste.
    Totally this. Even for presidentialism, one should be allowed vote for every* candidate he/she thinks would be able to run the government. Whoever gets more votes, majority or not, is elected. This would mitigate herd behavior, and the feeling of wasting votes as well.

    *perhaps not in an unlimited way, but two different votes at the least should be allowed, or even required in the first place.


  15. #175
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    The wife of Netaniahu was convicted for misusing public funds. We will see if that affects voters

  16. #176
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    The wife of Netaniahu was convicted for misusing public funds. We will see if that affects voters
    Eh, not very likely. The amount she misused it less than 50,000$, so not all too significant.

  17. #177

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Eh, not very likely. The amount she misused it less than 50,000$, so not all too significant.
    What's the ethical difference between using 50 thousand dollars and 50 million dollars?
    The Armenian Issue

  18. #178
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    What's the ethical difference between using 50 thousand dollars and 50 million dollars?
    None I suppose, but it's a minor offence, and one not committed by Netanyahu himself, so I doubt it will have any impact on his voters.

  19. #179

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    None I suppose, but it's a minor offence, and one not committed by Netanyahu himself, so I doubt it will have any impact on his voters.
    How is she capable of using the funds without his approval? It wasn't her office's funds, was it?
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #180
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    How is she capable of using the funds without his approval? It wasn't her office's funds, was it?
    If it were then he'd be on trial, not her.

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