View Poll Results: Which party would you vote for?

Voters
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  • Likud (Conservative)

    3 12.00%
  • Jewish Home (Right-Wing)

    0 0%
  • Yesh Atid (Centrism)

    0 0%
  • Labour (Center-Left)

    1 4.00%
  • New Right (right-wing)

    1 4.00%
  • Joint Union (Israeli Arab)

    3 12.00%
  • Kulanu (Center)

    0 0%
  • Shas (Sephardic-Mizrahi Orthodoxy)

    1 4.00%
  • United Torah Judaism (Ashkenazi Orthodoxy)

    0 0%
  • Yachad (Ultra-Orthodoxy)

    0 0%
  • Hatnuah (Liberalism)

    0 0%
  • Ta'al (Arab Nationalism)

    3 12.00%
  • Israel Resilience Party (Center-Right)

    0 0%
  • Metetz (Green-Left)

    8 32.00%
  • Yisrael Beiteinu (Zionism)

    0 0%
  • Gesher (Right-Wing)

    1 4.00%
  • Zehut (Libertarianism)

    3 12.00%
  • Other (Please, specify)

    1 4.00%
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Thread: Israel elections April 2019, September 2019, March 2020, March 2021.

  1. #41
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Are you claiming that the law against religious incitement doesn't date to the British Mandate?
    The irony of this is not lost on me. The British colonial policy of indirect rule was a method of governance for multicultural states, and this had the effect of making colonial governance run more smoothly. History teaches that Israel have never tried to follow the British's colonial lessons about governing ethnically, religiously and legally plural regions.
    I agree with a ban on incitement to religious hatred.As you know, I even agree with laws against hate speech. Some would argue that religions and their followers should receive no special protection from spoken hostility. That's not my opinion. With that being said, Katz's criticism of the Criticism of the government is a very different thing, and what happened to him is terrible, and definitely not a question of a mere "business thing" - as you said.
    It's a political repression, clearly recognized by the New York Jewish Week. Orwell And Israeli Politics | Jewish Week

    Being that the law was widely seen as discriminatory against Israel’s non-Jewish citizens — it gave the Jewish people “an exclusive right to national self-determination,” declared Hebrew the state’s official language and elevated “the development of Jewish settlements” to a national value — Katz’s message seemed pretty straightforward.

    ...In light of recent headlines, Katz’s Orwellian allegory — both the cartoon and its creator’s dismissal — have an almost prophetic feel. Last week, ahead of Israel’s upcoming elections on April 9, Netanyahu announced a deal by which the extremist party Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) would merge with Jewish Home, the slightly more mainstream party of religious Zionists.An openly racist group, Otzma’s platform calls for annexing the occupied territories, rejecting any Palestinian state, expelling all “enemies” of Israel (Arabs) and “taking ownership” of the Temple Mount. If Netanyahu wins the upcoming election, the party will go from being an extreme fringe group to becoming part of the governing coalition.
    For many Israeli-Americans, including a number I spoke with for this column, the deal represents another deeply alarming transition in a slow-but-sure Orwellian cycle, in which Israel appears to be morphing from a shelter against racial discrimination and violence to a perpetrator of those ills
    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Okay, so your point is that some guy has an opinion.. ..Many Israelis have the same opinion
    I'm always suspicious of "non partisan" political analysts. Don't you have an opinion about anything? in fact many Israelis have the same opinion, and there's nothing wrong with clear political statements or political opinions. To agree with someone else's ideas is nothing extraordinary...

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    As I said, Rivlin is quite clearly referring to community settlements in that quote.
    He also said, in a broader context,
    The law is our social and national moral code. The law is our common consent, by all parts of our society, to live together. It is the way that society turns its disorder into a success story
    In fact, Rivlin always criticized a law that would define "national rights" in Israel's as reserved for Jews only. In a democracy, individual civil rights and national rights are intrinsically connected.
    Let's go back to 2014, Israeli president opposes proposed law to give 'national rights' to Jew
    . A quarter of Israel’s population is not Jewish, and probably the most important item on the nation’s agenda should be their integration into the fabric of Israeli society and their participation in the Israeli economy. Giving them the feeling of being at home, of being equal citizens.”
    Just a few hours ago, Israel president rejects Netanyahu comments about Arab citizens
    Israel’s president has hit back at Benjamin Netanyahu after the prime minister said in reference to the country’s Arab minority that Israel was “not a state for all its citizens”.... “entirely unacceptable remarks about the Arab citizens of Israel”.
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    The first time I filled out a visa application to enter Israel, I was confused .... Naturally this concept is foreign to assimilated Jews in Western countries,
    Your personal testimony makes clear that this concept is foreign to a democratic mind, Jewish or not Jewish.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    What they want is an equal claim to the state by their own "nation"
    ...not necessarily a nation with first and second class citizens.
    Reflections By An Arab Jew - Ella Shohat - Professor of Cultural Studies and Women's Studies at Cuny
    The same historical process that dispossessed Palestinians of their property, lands and national-political rights, was linked to the dispossession of Middle Eastern and North African Jews of their property, lands, and rootedness in Muslim countries.
    The pervasive notion of "one people" reunited in their ancient homeland actively disauthorizes any affectionate memory of life before Israel.
    More,
    Live Encounters | Professor Ella Habiba Shohat – Bodies and Borders- is Professor of Cultural Studies at the departments of Art & Public Policy and Middle Eastern & Islamic Studies at New York University.
    An Interview
    I grew up in Israel as a Jew, in a country that defines itself as a state for the Jews and as a Jewish state, which was presumably a solution for “the Jewish problem.” But for which Jews, and a solution for what?
    In 1948, after the partition of Palestine, a huge number of Palestinians were dispossessed and became refugees.
    It was no longer possible to simply be a Jew cohabiting with Arab Christians and Arab Muslims. But while Arab Christians and Arab Muslims could maintain their identity, Arab Jews could not.
    Suddenly, we had to choose between a Jewishness that was equated with Israel, seen as virtually coterminous with the West and with Europeanness, versus an Arabness that was now equated with Islam and the East, and for the first time, an East without Jewishness.
    It is also problematic when the history of Jews in Arab countries and in Islamic spaces is viewed as being identical to the history of Jews under Christianity—that is, as a history of relentless persecution. Today, this narrative has unfortunately become a dominant—and, I would argue, Eurocentric—mode of representing Jewish histories.
    ...In any case, Jews were not the only minority in a Middle East replete with ethnic and religious minorities; thus, our history cannot be discussed only in relation to Jews within Christian Europe, but must be discussed also in relation to the diverse minorities in the Middle East.
    Because of a certain Eurocentric discourse, it has been difficult to articulate a Judaism embedded in Arab culture...With colonial domination in the Middle East and North Africa, certain institutions gained power, including Euro-Jewish institutions that were connected to colonial power, which were instrumental in our Westernization even before the arrival to Israel.
    And therefore one can argue that there has been a kind of Aryanization and whitening of the Jew as a result of the experience of anti-Semitism.
    Moreover, Israel was created with the idea that it would be a Western outpost—a Switzerland of the Middle East, as the phrase went—even though located in the Middle East, and even though the majority of Jews in Eastern Europe were called Ostjuden, and even though Israel ended up with many Jews from places like Yemen, Iraq, Syria, and Morocco.
    It would be hard to describe Israel, then, as simply a Western entity. And, of course, this characterization ignores the Palestinians who are citizens of Israel.
    ..in recent times, largely because of the Arab/Israeli conflict, there has been a construction in the public sphere of Jews and Muslims as always already enemies.
    In the media, journalists often appeal to the cliché that “this conflict goes back thousands of years.” But historically that is false; it largely goes back to the late 19th century and the emergence of Zionism.
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 11, 2019 at 03:04 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  2. #42

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    A Jewish Joint List?

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Go...ization-583126

    With Moshe Feiglin's Zehut party seeing a surge in support due largely to its pro-marijuana legalization platform, Netanyahu now says (not particularly convincingly) that he is also considering taking a toke: "We are looking into it and will have an answer soon."
    Last edited by Prodromos; March 11, 2019 at 09:56 PM.
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  3. #43
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post

    Rivlin is a member of Netanyahu's party by the way.
    So he can eb consider the left wing of N's party? Isn't there anyone who is likely to take over and continue more or less exactly the way N did? N's position seems to weaken politically and personally.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    This is Zehut's whole platform, some of which is pretty radical for Israel:

    • Opposition to coercion of all kinds: religious, anti-religious, economic, cultural, or educational, and the minimization of state intervention in the life and liberty of private citizens.
    • Gradual reduction of the number of government ministries from 29 to 11.
    • Legalization of cannabis to be sold by licensed companies, with a consumption age limit of 21 years.
    • Protection of equal rights for all citizens.
    • Protection of free speech and media, and abolishing mandatory broadcasting licenses.
    • Protection of the right to keep and bear arms, and extending it to all citizens (not only ex-soldiers) without a violent past or physical or mental limitations.
    • Elimination of police brutality by outlawing the use of force against non-violent civil disobedience, and allowing communities to appoint their local police chiefs.
    • Abolishing the biometric database as it infringes the right to privacy.
    • Lowering taxes by adopting a flat tax rate, equally reducing corporate taxes for all companies, and gradually eliminating custom taxes and import quotas.
    • Reduction of housing prices through land privatization, abolishing planning and building committees, and removing construction freezes in the West Bank.
    • Reforming education by adopting the school voucher system.
    • Privatization of state-owned hospitals based on contracts with prize and quality conditions.
    • Transferring matters of religion and culture from the state to the community, while preserving the Law of Return and Israel's nature as a Jewish state.
    • Abolishing the Chief Rabbinate's monopoly over personal issues, and reducing its budget to local voluntary taxation only.
    • Abolishing marriage registration; marriage will be defined individually by each couple.
    • Nullification of the Oslo Accords, and applying full Israeli sovereignty to all parts of the Land of Israel. Individual Arabs in the West Bank will be given three options: assisted emigration to a country of their choice, permanent residency status, or Israeli citizenship after being thoroughly vetted.
    • Gradual transition of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) from a conscription to a professional volunteer army.
    • Ending all American aid to Israel.

    But nobody really seems to be that interested in it except for the part about legalizing weed, which is funny because people already smoke weed in public everywhere, even right in front of the police.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    So he can eb consider the left wing of N's party? Isn't there anyone who is likely to take over and continue more or less exactly the way N did? N's position seems to weaken politically and personally.
    I don't imagine there will be any major change in policy no matter who wins. More likely just a change in presentation and style.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #45
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    • Protection of equal rights for all citizens.
    • Protection of free speech and media, and abolishing mandatory broadcasting licenses.
    • Protection of the right to keep and bear arms, and extending it to all citizens (not only ex-soldiers) without a violent past or physical or mental limitations.
    Libertarianism has always had a soft spot for me. I reckon I’d vote for them.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  6. #46
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    ----
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    ​This is Zehut's whole platform..Opposition to coercion of all kinds


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    ...removing construction freezes in the West Bank...applying full Israeli sovereignty to all parts of the Land of Israel
    ...the biblical lands. Wait-it's not an opposition to coercion of all kinds.It's the opposite.

    Which bring us to...
    Recently, UN chief: 1 option to protect Palestinians is a new force - AP News
    .. options to protect Palestinian civilians under Israeli occupation range from establishing an armed military or police force to deploying civilian observers or beefing up the U.N. presence on the ground. Guterres focused on four options..
    ---
    A few years ago, Cameron said "Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp", lending an illusory, ephemeral hope to Palestinians' struggle to survive.

    Which bring us to...
    Dems gunning for Trump fear 2020 split over Israel - POLITICO
    With an energized progressive base increasingly supportive of Palestinian rights, and a president who is stridently pro-Israel in his policy moves, Democrats are starting to grapple more than ever with the party’s once-reflexive support for Israel...The anti-BDS piece of the package may not survive the Democratic-controlled U.S. House.
    And then again...which brings us back to the issue of conflict prevention. Let's wait for the next US elections.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  7. #47

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    the party’s once-reflexive support for Israel
    That's a myth, actually. The Democrats' liberal base has never been particularly sympathetic to Israel, and I don't think any party or administration, whether Republican or Democratic, ever had a stance of "reflexive" support for Israel, unless you believe that not calling for Israel's destruction is "supporting" Israel.

    Some recent polls have shown a growing polarization on the formerly bipartisan issue of support for Israel... Some observers view these results in apocalyptic terms, and warn that these trends presage the U.S. abandonment of Israel. Before giving in to the doomsayers, however, it is useful to examine the historical context and data that contradicts the conventional wisdom...

    Instead of a dramatic decline in support among Democrats, as some have suggested, the data indicates that Democratic Party voters’ sympathies have not changed dramatically in the last 40 years... Moreover, the data tells us the notion that Democrats have historically been overwhelmingly sympathetic toward Israel is a myth...

    Lipset and Schneider did not look specifically at partisan identification, but they did examine differences between liberals and conservatives, as well as McGovern versus Nixon voters. They found that McGovern voters were somewhat less supportive of Israel than Nixon voters, but this was only true for those under 40. This is a noteworthy reminder to those who believe that young people are suddenly turning away from Israel; in fact, this cohort has historically been less supportive of Israel than its elders. The polls also show that, as they age, these same people will become more pro-Israel...

    Rather than lament a non-existent decline in support among Democrats, the question to ask is why Democratic support has been so low all these years, predating the failure of Oslo, the growth of settlements, the Gaza blockade and all the other issues typically used to explain the party’s qualms with Israel.

    Think about the issue of gun control. Polls consistently show significant support for tougher restrictions, but lawmakers ignore these results because the number of people who have that “passionate conviction” to lobby for gun control, and support candidates with their money and votes, is dwarfed by the far more vocal minority on the other side. In the case of Israel, the pro-Israel side has the double advantage of being the majority, and also being more passionate than Israel’s detractors.

    It is also important to distinguish between general public opinion and that of elected officials. While a handful of Democratic politicians are certifiably anti-Israel, and a larger number are sometimes critical, overall, Democratic members of Congress have remained steadfast in support of Israel on key issues such as military cooperation and aid.
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...ndoning-israel
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  8. #48
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Libertarianism has always had a soft spot for me. I reckon I’d vote for them.
    That's pretty much why I intend to.

  9. #49
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    The Democrats' liberal base has never been particularly sympathetic to Israel
    But- if I'm not wrong- in the last decades always endorsed a bipartisan pro-Israel consensus, explicitly lending Israel vocal and material support.
    Sanders is a supporter of the two states solution, and -he also supports the notion that Israel has a right to defend itself. Obviously.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  10. #50
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    i guess what he is saying is: left-wing democrats have never been uncritical supporters of the israeli government, and somehow thats a bad thing.

  11. #51
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Yesterday evening 2 rockets had been fired towards Tel-Aviv, which creates a serious dilemma for Netanyahu. An escalation now would put at risk the election and the Eurovision, and possibly piss off many Netanyahu voters in the south, an area that is very right-wing, who will see that rockets fired at them aren't worthy of an escalation, but rockets fired at Tel-Aviv are. however, a lack of one will likely cause Netanyahu to lose votes from right wingers all around the country.
    So far, Israel retaliated by bombing 100 or so targets in Gaza, all this coming after the Egyptian delegation attempting to broker some kind of "temporary calm" has left the Gaza strip after the failure of the attempts. Hamas for its part denies being responsible for the rockets.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    An escalation now would put at risk the election and the Eurovision, and possibly piss off many Netanyahu voters in the south, an area that is very right-wing, who will see that rockets fired at them aren't worthy of an escalation, but rockets fired at Tel-Aviv are.
    Yeah, that was my first thought. Constant rockets and other BS in the south, meh... Two rockets fired at Tel Aviv, 100+ targets hit already.

    Although, I didn't even hear sirens or explosions in Ramat Aviv HaHadasha, must have been headed toward the south end of town. So don't worry, no wealthy people had their sleep interrupted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #53
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Yeah, that was my first thought. Constant rockets and other BS in the south, meh... Two rockets fired at Tel Aviv, 100+ targets hit already.

    Although, I didn't even hear sirens or explosions in Ramat Aviv HaHadasha, must have been headed toward the south end of town. So don't worry, no wealthy people had their sleep interrupted.
    Yeah, as someone who lives in the south, I somewhat share the sentiment. Then again, I never voted for Likud anyway.

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  15. #55
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post
    The racist got his due.
    Worth noting that this is the first time in Israeli politics that an individual, not a party, is barred from participating. The Israeli high court shows it's bias yet again, after having in the past refused to bar even people like Hanin Zoabi, who participated in the Marmara flotilla against Israel.

    Mind, I'm not sad that he was barred, just that it was him that was the first one to be, as up until now this didn't happen as the high court was unwilling to set this precedent.

  16. #56
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    What crime did he do to get banned?

    Also, this is amusing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.e67e16090fea

    Fascism, coming to a parfumerie near you.

    I wish some of the European parties would do something like that.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    What crime did he do to get banned?
    Did you even read the article I linked?
    Ben Ari, leader of the Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) party — now a part of the Union of Right-Wing Parties — has faced multiple bids to outlaw his candidacy under Article 7A of the Basic Law: The Knesset, which lists “incitement to racism” as one of three actions that disqualify a candidate from running for Knesset.
    BTW, Israel is not democratic anyways
    Hadash-Ta’al and Ra’am-Balad are the two main Arab alliances running in the April 9 general election. The latter’s candidacy had been challenged by right-wing parties, under laws disqualifying those who challenge the definition of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, or who back armed opposition to it.
    Ridiculous in the face of non-Jewish and secular parts of Israeli society.


  18. #58

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    What crime did he do to get banned?
    He referred to Israeli Arabs as "enemies from within".
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  19. #59
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post


    BTW, Israel is not democratic anyways

    Ridiculous in the face of non-Jewish and secular parts of Israeli society.
    The funny part is that, despite this being the law, the supreme court continues to ignore the first condition(the one you mention about Jewish and democratic state) and has never disqualified parties or candidates that break said law. The same law which gave it power to disqualify Ben Ari, just under a different condition of the listed 3. This is exactly the kind of thing the "fascism" ad talks about, making the court abide the laws of Israel, not what they think that the laws should be.

    As for the 2nd part.. sigh. How many times must it be repeated that when saying "Jewish state" it doesn't mean religion? This has absolutely nothing to do with secularism.
    As for "Israel is not democratic", in what way? Every citizen is equal and is allowed to vote, as you yourself mentioned we have currently 2 (4 really) fully Arab parties (with the exception of Ofer Ksif in Hadash, whom the supreme court also decided not to ban) as well as Arab members in all major parties. The Likud for example even has a spot in the list that has to be occupied by a non-Jew, I think Labour does too.

  20. #60
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019

    In a turn of events that is likely to boost support for Netanyahu, it seems that Trump is preparing to recognise the Golan heights as Israeli territory.

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