View Poll Results: Which party would you vote for?

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  • Likud (Conservative)

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Thread: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September. Another new election announced for March.

  1. #241
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Not quite yet, there's a period of time where any member of parliament can be given the task of forming a coalition if they get 61 signatures from other members of parliament, but the deadline is fast approaching, and after that there will indeed be another election.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    He was here, yesterday.Pompeo Meets Netanyahu in Lisbon to Talk Iran - WSJ

    According to the Jerusalem Post, Benjamin Netanyahu | The Jerusalem Post




    (1) Guess what - Israel /US barred the entrance of Portuguese journalists, without explanations.
    Bloqueio a jornalistas portugueses no encontro Pompeo ...
    Jornalistas portugueses impedidos de fotografar - Expresso

    I can't say I'm surprised, Portugal “resists US appeal to bar Huawei from 5G network
    -----
    Edit,
    Furthermore, on the issue of the Israeli colonates, Pompeo put pressure on the Portuguese government, but he was unsuccessful. We said that our position/the position of the EU has not changed. The colonates are illegal.
    Let's keep in mind that the UK said no to the meeting,
    Netanyahu's London trip to meet Pompeo said nixed after veto ...



    We know the reason,
    U.S. told to stay out of British politics as Pompeo wades into into Labour's anti-Semitism row
    Pompeo tells Jewish leaders he will 'push back' against Britain's

    They cannot accept a "no".But we don't have to agree on everything. Trade relations between Israel and Portugal countries have never been better, and from the political/ diplomatic point of view they will have their high point with the visit of our President to Israel in next January, as part of the Holocaust memorial day.
    I would like to remember that tens of thousands of Israelis participated/voted in the last elections in Portugal, four years after Portugal approved a law granting citizenship. There are now tens of thousands of other Israelis who are in the process of obtaining citizenship and there are another three million potential beneficiaries- according to the data released by David Yadid Law Office & Notary, an Israeli law firm focusing on helping clients in the process of obtaining foreign citizenship, as well as in assisting Holocaust survivors.
    It was not a nice attitude.
    Very little of your post has anything to do with the topic of this thread.


  2. #242
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Very little of your post has anything to do with the topic of this thread.
    Well, Papay wrote "Netanyahu is being indicted on corruption charges"

    It just came to my mind that two right wing extremist leaders (Pompeo/Netanyahu) - charged with corruption and bribery - came here, abusing our hospitality, in order to prepare God knows what.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  3. #243
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Well, Papay wrote "Netanyahu is being indicted on corruption charges"

    It just came to my mind that two right wing extremist leaders (Pompeo/Netanyahu) - charged with corruption and bribery - came here, abusing our hospitality, in order to prepare God knows what.
    Virtually nothing in your post had anything to do with indictment.


  4. #244
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Virtually nothing in your post had anything to do with indictment.
    It has now.I tried to be relatively polite. A very bad idea. One thing is certain, jail waits Netanyahu. Pompeo? just wait till the next chapter. Pompeo has been linked to Giuliani's "work" in Ukraine, which sits at the heart of the impeachment inquiry.
    Pence, Pompeo and Barr deserve to be impeached, too - The ...
    Documents released to ethics group show Giuliani, Pompeo ...
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  5. #245
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    One thing is certain, jail waits Netanyahu.
    That would only be certain after a trial, not before.
    Pompeo? just wait till the next chapter. Pompeo has been linked to Giuliani's "work" in Ukraine, which sits at the heart of the impeachment inquiry.
    Pence, Pompeo and Barr deserve to be impeached, too - The ...
    Documents released to ethics group show Giuliani, Pompeo ...
    Pompeo is not the topic of this thread.


  6. #246
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    I am curious about who will be able to form a government now assuming one can. Would new elections really result in a majority for one of the candidates this time around?

  7. #247
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    I am curious about who will be able to form a government now assuming one can. Would new elections really result in a majority for one of the candidates this time around?
    Hard to say. Election fatigue could almost certainly come into play, it being a 3rd election in less than a year. Then we have the fact that Netanyahu got indicted, which will energise both his supporters and those who oppose him, I don't feel confident predicting which way it'll go, it depends on how effective of an election campaign Netanyahu will run. Gantz's supporters are somewhat disheartened by his failure to form a coalition (he didn't even come close), and the Joint List voters moreso because even now their party failed to join a coalition (a big reason their turnout increased this election was that their party leader announced that, under certain circumstances, he would join a coalition).


  8. #248
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Pompeo is not the topic of this thread.
    ...says the Spanish Inquisition. Israel faces a new election, and Pompeo boosts Netanyahu -again- as he did it before Pompeo boosts Israel's Netanyahu before election | Israel
    Do I need really to explain it? Israeli PM in Lisbon for “hastily arranged talks”
    Reuters stresses that these are “hastily arranged talks” because Netanyahu’s initial plan to fly to London and meet Mr Pompeo there (as part of the US delegation to the NATO summit) presented too many ‘logistical problems’.
    The news agency says the trip “could be aimed at giving Netanyahu a political boost at home”. (The long-time prime minister is facing corruption charges – which he denies – while Israeli politicas are in disarray following inconclusive elections in April, and the failure of any side to secure a ruling majority)
    ----
    An Israeli court convicted Netanyahu's wife of illegally misusing thousands of pounds of public funds, last June. And now, Attorney General Avichai Mandelblit has announced a list of 333 witnesses. 333 - Urban Dictionary
    Lieberman says granting Netanyahu immunity would harm public trust. The funny thing is ...Knesset legal adviser: Netanyahu indictment must wait until

    So the question is, how many times can Netanyahu ask immunity? 333?
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #249
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    ...says the Spanish Inquisition. Israel faces a new election, and Pompeo boosts Netanyahu -again- as he did it before Pompeo boosts Israel's Netanyahu before election | Israel
    Do I need really to explain it? Israeli PM in Lisbon for “hastily arranged talks”
    I'm willing to bet that most Israelis don't even know who mike Pompeo is. He is not relevant to our election. Whether or not he is guilty of a crime isn't relevant.

    An Israeli court convicted Netanyahu's wife of illegally misusing thousands of pounds of public funds, last June. And now, Attorney General Avichai Mandelblit has announced a list of 333 witnesses. 333 - Urban Dictionary
    Lieberman says granting Netanyahu immunity would harm public trust. The funny thing is ...Knesset legal adviser: Netanyahu indictment must wait until

    So the question is, how many times can Netanyahu ask immunity? 333?
    Innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.


    In other news, if there will indeed be another election (99% guaranteed at this point), it will be held on the 2nd of March.
    Last edited by nhytgbvfeco2; December 09, 2019 at 06:00 AM.


  10. #250
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    I'm willing to bet that most Israelis don't even know who mike Pompeo is
    Haha.Well, well, most Israelis don't even who Trump is. and America is a country your compatriots definitely never heard of.
    For your information, OECD has ranked Israel as the 3rd most educated country in adult education of 10 listed countries, above the United States.Most young Americans have a weak grasp on global concepts and geography.
    Read my previous post or google "giving Netanyahu a political boost at home". Yes, Pompeo. US. Trump. Trump is widely popular among israeli Jews, with 79% in a recent AJC's survey.

    Whether or not he is guilty of a crime isn't relevant.
    The future will tell. Right now is relevant and indispensable for political credibility.
    --
    Innocent until proven guilty
    Oh yes, Netanyahu is the victim of an attempted coup committed by 333 testimonies.
    Last edited by Ludicus; December 09, 2019 at 01:54 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  11. #251
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Haha.Well, well, most Israelis don't even who Trump is. and America is a country your compatriots definitely never heard of.
    For your information, OECD has ranked Israel as the 3rd most educated country in adult education of 10 listed countries, above the United States.Most young Americans have a weak grasp on global concepts and geography.
    Read my previous post or google "giving Netanyahu a political boost at home". Yes, Pompeo. US. Trump. Trump is widely popular among israeli Jews, with 79% in a recent AJC's survey.
    Sigh. Trump is a well known figure, a president of the US. Leader of the free world and all that. Constantly on the news for every little thing he does. I don't even know what position in the American government Pompeo occupies, and as I already stated I'm willing to bet that most Israeli's don't know who Pompeo is. Being educated doesn't mean you know every foreign politician.


    The future will tell. Right now is relevant and indispensable for political credibility.
    How on earth is Pompeo's guilt or innocence relevant to an Israeli election? It would literally have no impact on it.
    Oh yes, Netanyahu is the victim of an attempted coup committed by 333 testimonies.
    Are you unaware of how the law works? You're innocent until proven guilty. Nothing has been proven yet, the process has only just begun.
    Last edited by nhytgbvfeco2; December 10, 2019 at 04:05 AM.


  12. #252

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post

    Are you unaware of how the law works? You're innocent until proven guilty. Nothing has been proven yet, the process has only just begone.
    Not for a Jew. If the accused is a Jew=automatically guilty...

  13. #253
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    @ nhytgbvfeco2, I know how the law works. Keep your expectations low to avoid disappointment.

    I don't even know what position in the American government Pompeo occupies
    Really...as a side note Pompeo and Barr are all-in on Trump's corrupt scheme

    how on earth is Pompeo's guilt or innocence relevant to an Israeli election?
    Well, it's amazingly funny to note the pathetic effort of two corrupts working together, trying to give Netanyahu a political boost at home.
    It's their "finest" hour, I mean their final swan song.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Not for a Jew. If the accused is a Jew=automatically guilty...
    A tirade that makes you anti-semite.
    Last edited by Ludicus; December 10, 2019 at 02:39 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  14. #254
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post

    This. Is. Off. Topic. Pompeo and Barr are completely and utterly irrelevant to the upcoming Israeli election.
    Well, it's amazingly funny to note the pathetic effort of two corrupts working together, trying to give Netanyahu a political boost at home.
    It's their "finest" hour, I mean their final swan song.
    Allegedly corrupt, neither has been found guilty.
    Netanyahu's alleged corruption is relevant to the Israeli election, and thus also to this thread. Pompeo's isn't. The fact that both have allegations against them doesn't make Pompeo suddenly relevant, much like it doesn't make literally any other person in the world accused of corruption relevant solely based on the fact that they are accused of corruption. If Pompeo is found guilty tomorrow literally nothing will change in regards to the Israeli election, nor will it if he is found innocent.

    A tirade that makes you anti-semite.
    You clearly misunderstood his post. He's saying that that is your position, not his.


  15. #255
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    As I said before, there are three alleged corrupts- Netanyahu, Trump and Pompeo- working together to rise Netanyahu's electoral prospects. The meeting in Lisbon was unanimously regarded by the international press as way to give Netanyahu a political boost at home. Check the press.
    Even worse, as the Guardian put it. Excerpt,
    Benjamin Netanyahu's toxic legacy will haunt Israel long after ...
    The ‘political thuggery’ of Israel’s right wing and a lack of a persuasive centre-left alternative have pushed the country to the brink... Netanyahu’s vicious brand of hard-right identity politics has become a familiar blister on the face of Israel’s democracy.
    Netanyahu’s unprecedented indictment on Thursday on charges of bribery, fraud and breach of trust has intensified pressure on him to quit. With typical grandiosity, he denounced it as an “attempted coup”. When set alongside his failure to win a clear mandate in both of this year’s elections, this new humiliation would surely persuade any normal politician to stand down.

    But Netanyahu is not normal. Despite his “divisive rhetoric, lavish lifestyle and entanglement in corruption scandals, he stands for something, which cannot always be said of his opponents, Assaf Sharon, a Tel Aviv university professor, wrote recently. The principal reason why Netanyahu had become Israel’s longest-serving prime minister was the lack of a persuasive centre-left alternative in the years following the 1995 assassination of Labor’s Yitzhak Rabin, he argued.

    “Israeli liberals are cowed by the right’s political thuggery, demoralised by decades of failure, and weakened by mediocre leadership. Afraid to articulate their values and terrified of challenging Netanyahu’s nationalism, many on the left have reverted to a meaningless centrism, assuming that the only way to defeat him is by offering a more civilised, non-corrupt version of his politics,” Sharon wrote.
    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    You clearly misunderstood his post. He's saying that that is your position, not his.
    Ha-ha. You have clearly misunderstood my answer.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  16. #256

    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    The meeting in Lisbon was unanimously regarded by the international press as way to give Netanyahu a political boost at home.
    The international press simply repeated Reuters' speculation:

    The hastily arranged talks with the top diplomat of Israel’s closest ally could be aimed at giving Netanyahu a political boost at home.
    Which is more a symptom of intellectual laziness than anything else.

    In any case, if that was Netenyahu's plan, the US state department obviously didn't get the memo, considering they undermined him and made him look like a liar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  17. #257
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    As I said before, there are three alleged corrupts- Netanyahu, Trump and Pompeo- working together to rise Netanyahu's electoral prospects. The meeting in Lisbon was unanimously regarded by the international press as way to give Netanyahu a political boost at home. Check the press.
    Pompeo being found guilty, and I cannot stress this enough, would have absolutely no impact on the election. At all. A footnote in the local news at most. About the same level of impact as if I were to go to the store tomorrow and buy an apple.

    Even worse, as the Guardian put it. Excerpt,
    Benjamin Netanyahu's toxic legacy will haunt Israel long after ...
    This just shows how disconnected the writer of the article is. The majority of Israeli's nowadays are right wing, the left is a dying breed, barely passing the voter threshold, labour might be completely gone after the coming election. Even the return of the prince that was promised, Azor Ahai himself Ehud Barak, from his self imposed exile to the USA where he definitely did not spend any time with Jeffrey Epstein couldn't get the left wing parties a single additional seat in the Knesset. Netanyahu's downfall won't lead to the left suddenly becoming popular again, the demographics are simply against it.

    Ha-ha. You have clearly misunderstood my answer.
    He claimed your position to stem from anti-semetism, and you answered by saying that he is being anti-semetic. Which part did I get wrong, exactly?


  18. #258
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    The majority of Israeli's nowadays are right wing
    In ancient history or now right and left can be deceiving trying to for complexity into a binary definition.

    How would describe the 'right' in Israel at the moment since it can't form a government it seems a bit dis unified even if it is as you say ascendant. By describe what polices are sort of core to it
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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  19. #259
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    In ancient history or now right and left can be deceiving trying to for complexity into a binary definition.

    How would describe the 'right' in Israel at the moment since it can't form a government it seems a bit dis unified even if it is as you say ascendant. By describe what polices are sort of core to it
    In its early days Israel was, by and large, a socialist welfare state. Those political stances are by now virtually gone. It's still to a large degree a welfare state, moreso than most European countries I would say (especially when it comes to taxation), but that trend has been changing. Yes, Netanyahu failed to form a government, but keep in mind that Lieberman, the reason he couldn't form a government, is also right wing. Blue and white, the main opposition party, is a mix of several parties, one of which is right wing (former Likud members in fact). Only two parties in Israel still claim to be left wing (not counting the mess that is the Joint List), Meretz and Labour, and both are just slightly above the voter threshold. The ultra-orthodox parties, who would previously be the king makers and sit in coalitions both left-wing and right wing, have over the recent years refused to sit in left-wing coalitions and instead went with the right.
    The demographic trend in Israel has somewhat of an opposite effect to the one you might expect in the west, as it is the "white" European Jews (except Russians) that vote left wing, and the "Brown" middle-eastern Jews (and Russians) that vote right wing, by and large.
    Now, what differentiates left and right in Israel? It's a complex question. While all 2 parties on the left are also economically left (socialist), some of the parties on the right are too ("Kulanu" which merged into Likud for example). The right includes more economically Liberal parties, like Likud (at least on paper) and New Right (and Zehut if it runs again, otherwise it is currently not running due to a deal with Likud). The only real "centrist" party, Blue and white, has elements of both (The Yesh Atid faction is more Liberal, but the party has in number 5 a former labour union leader, who is a socialist). Lieberman's Israel Beitenu party is more of what you'd consider a.. nationalist party?
    Obviously neither side is truly unified, considering the sheer number of parties we have, but Netanyahu's right+religious coalition, with the exception of Liberman who suddenly decided that he's secular, has held firm for about a decade now, occasionally joined by the odd centrist of left-wing party.


  20. #260
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Israel elections April 2019. New elections announced for September.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    In ancient history or now right and left can be deceiving trying to for complexity into a binary definition
    But that's how democracy works. The so-called "partisan press" (from the right-wing to the left-wing end of the spectrum) is a nuclear foundation of democracy. Let's look at the opposite- as an example, in the semi-authoritarian Hungary, Orban's media strategy- a tightly-controlled state media represents the first step to a fascistoid state.
    --
    Back to the Israeli elections (a snide remark, I can't resist) - has Netanyahu called his election defeat anti-Semitic yet?

    To be fair, in spite of my criticisms (the two-states solution and the Israeli nationality Law), we need to recognize that the Israeli press is completely free. As an example,the comments below are from the former PM Ehud Barak, reported in the Ha’aretz. in 2016 - Channel 10 interview.Almost unimaginable, right?

    Israel has been infected by the seeds of fascism, says ex Haaretz...
    Life-sustaining Zionism and the seeds of fascism cannot live together," Barak told a Channel 10 interviewer. This government needs to be brought down before it brings all of us down"
    -----
    Israeli left must unite to survive. Brilliant people here
    Ehud Barak, Meretz Party, Stav Shaffir.



    -----
    Why Israel's Generals Are Taking on Netanyahu - Foreign Policy


    Almost all of them believe the prime minister is destroying Israel’s democratic values and sacrificing the Zionist dream by avoiding a two-state solution.
    --
    Edit,
    According to the Jerusalem Post, an immunity bill would save millions and a "truly remarkable" corrupt,
    Immunity bill would save country millions - Jerusalem Post


    Media reports state that the majority of Israelis are opposed to granting immunity from prosecution to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    Yet, if there was a law that granted immunity to a sitting president and prime minister, much of the time and money wasted in elections over the past year would have been saved and Israel would have a government.

    Regardless of how anyone may feel about Netanyahu, his ability to perform and to think clearly under all the pressures that he has had to contend with in recent years is truly remarkable.
    Last edited by Ludicus; December 12, 2019 at 01:10 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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