New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

[Nikron]

3K is the ugliest Total War title I've seen. The map looks horrible and overall looks like an superhero arcade game for children. Reminds me of Age of Empires.

Imagine how ugly Greece will look if they use 3K as base. Such a turn off.

So CA will just come up with random units for each faction and we'll just have basic slingers, archers, chariots, and armoured (or not) swordsmen and spearmen, mostly with felt caps or elites with leather or boar tusks helmets and cuirasses, hideous duel animations, basic ships/boats, mostly no formations besides maybe some elites who can form a shield wall.

Modders can take WoS map and create 5 units in total for each faction. It'll take them max a week to put everything together. A bunch of villages with few fortified settlements, and crowds of warriors in tunics fighting with bad swords and spears.

Did I leave something out?

But maybe I'm being stupid and this is exactly why CA is doing it, so they have more time to focus on fantasy and Chinese stuff because children and the Chinese are in way bigger numbers than us history enthusiast old farts.

[JupiterMoneta]

I passed on Wrath of Sparta and the Sparta faction pack, so I'm quite interested in this title. I only hope that they have learned from ToB and make it a worthwhile TW instead of just a quick cashgrab with major issues never addressed.

Also, the fact that it gets made by CA Sofia don't invoke much confidence after what they made of Empire Divided and Rise of the Republic; DLC's that could've been so much better with a little bit more thinking and infusion of history.

[Daruwind]

Just small note, FotS is now labeled as Saga game. https://www.totalwar.com/blog/a-tota...f-the-samurai/ well it is just reedition on steam, including all DLCs for free but I´m posting it from different reason. It is basically the first Saga game, so now we have two with ToB. It is of course not saying everything about Troy but we can do a little more conclusions from two games. For example the relative size, number of factions etc. difference from base game. Of course a few more years passes still for analysis still might be another good point. :-)

[Daruwind]

Nice video about time period, somewhat more grounded and boring version than epic Homer but actually really nice picture of whole region of Troy and Collapse.



EDIT: and one more about Collapse and Sea People

[AnthoniusII]

The first video shows Dorians as invadors from the north. Its true that the German history industry after placing its delf as descentant of Romans and Arians (Persians) tried hard to convince the world that Dorians were outsiders that invaded Greece berlonging to the so called Indoeuropean race!!! But last year a historical assay was published and turned things upside down. According to anthropological and DNA evidences the central and north european was not inhabidanted by sophisticated humans. Infact when the last small glasier melted and made journey to the north possible it was the balkan humans that colonised central and north europe bringing agriculture and HORSES to that area and NOT the other way. Also in Greek Mythology Dorieus is not an outsider. New evidences from the transpassing from bronze to iron age (Doric) in SOUTH BALKANS inticate that there were significant politocal/religius changes and population deportations and re-deportations with cosntant wars. So the thraditional Acheans were not aliens to Dorians or even worst NOT ALIEN to Troians. They were all Greeks. The clay tablets confirm the "myth" of Hercules' invasion and colonaisation of Helion (Troy) and the peace treaty with Heteans. Infact the colonists of Troy were originaly settled in Thessaly and forced to exile through the new regime wars durring the 16th century BC (late Bronze Age). That IS WHY GREEK GODS ARE SEPARATED AND HALF OF THEM HELP TROIANS AND HALF OF THEM THE REST OF THE Greeks. Gods of Greeks NEVER HELPED NON GREEKS! Source :Isiodos the Genealogic tree of the Heros!

[Daruwind]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorians

The Dorians (/ˈdɔːriənz/; Greek: Δωριεῖς, Dōrieis, singular Δωριεύς, Dōrieus) were one of the four major ethnic groups among which the Hellenes (or Greeks) of Classical Greece considered themselves divided (along with the Aeolians, Achaeans, and Ionians).^[2] They are almost always referred to as just "the Dorians", as they are called in the earliest literary mention of them in the Odyssey,^[3] where they already can be found inhabiting the island of Crete.

What you wrote Anthonius is what I consider one possible solution no matter possible scope of game. Troy, Greeks, Dorians...either the game will be hyper focused on them or they will be portraited very similarly but then we will need Hittite and others major factions all around.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Basically those two maps are my two possible scenarios. Either very similar campaign map to Wrath of Sparta with major focus on all Greek factions but as we start investigating those faction, they would be very similar ToB level. Or bigger scope with more different major players. I just love the second map more as we have no such so far in any TW. And especially from second video I got the feeling that having Cyprus and whole Turkey Coastline would be great and historical....And those mysterious invasions are easily solved for any of such scenario. There is no need for ultra unique special faction, it is simply domino effect where one group pushes another and that pushes another and so on resulting in destruction all over the place. Just look at ToB, I can easily imagine a few stacks spawning as Thracia, Dorians and some other possibly and start invading. No reason to have ultra germanic anythign there. Especially as CA probably won´t create unique assets just to have end game invasion...

[AnthoniusII]

I always talk with evidences. Isiodos in his works describes the Greek races that Herodorus call "EUROPEANS"...So for Greeks Europeans are ONLY THE GREEKS.
Latest discoveries like the Grigin Prince (same or a bit earlier era with the Troian War) prove the "myths" like the famous The seven against Theva.
What we know so far for sure...Late stone age and early bronze ones started the creation of settlements like those in messopotamia but ofcourse not as big as them thanks to the geographical barriers.
Settlements in south Pelloponisos that had commerce with Minoic Crete (the superpower of early bronze age).

We know that what we call Pellasgians were actually a group of people that lived in what we call Balkans today and there were a brazier (the last in europe) that issolated them from the other people races in europe.
That brazier kept the climate in such conditions to evolve civilisation. Plus thanks to Minoans and their first trade colonies , those races close to sea coasts developed sea trade!
So we must see myths as a non writen form of history passed from generation to the next one through the tales. Ofcourse Hercules was not one man super hero but his name has two meanings in Greek.
The 1st means the honored Hero (the one that made something epic to be mentioned in generations to come).
The second is the Guardian of Hera's glory.
So what in greek Mythology NAMES like Acheaos, Dorieus, Ellen, Aeolos, Ion, Dardanos, Illirios etc are not actually brothers but races with common basis like Guals from Spain to Balkans.
We read in the mythology that Dardanos and his people was forced to leave Thessaly to Hellen (there was a village called Hellas) and migrade to his brother Macedon and finally settle to Helion.
The same time Hercules' campaigns (actually Greek colonisation invasions) mention that he (hercules) fought the locals in Helion and later turned against Amazons and established a colony called Hellion (Troy).
The puzzle seams to get filled with Troy with the corespondance between the Achean Stewart of Millitos with the King of Heteans about the obligation of Acheans to give back to Heteans those that asked political asylum in their lands , reminding him the peace treaty about the helium. So we assumed that Greek tribes (Dardanos) left Thessaly because of wars and population over growing and invaded is the sphear of power of the Hetean Empire and established a colony. The place was not chosen by accident. Troy was a coastal city back then. Over population in Greece demanded more food resources and wealth for Kings to maintain their power. With Troy Greeks (Hercules in the myth) , controled amber, gold but most of all grain! Back in the main lands...The metriarch societies began to changes to patriarch ones in the early bronze age. Over opulation and civil wars forced groups of people to migrate or worst isolate from the rest ones (illirians, thracians). Then apeared two major power capitals. Theva and Mycene ....Both exiled their unpleasant political opponets and trigered wars. In the myth Hercules' teacher is a Centaur. Its not accident that that Centaur lives in Thessaly that has its unique breed of horses!! When Mycene defeated Theva and united the races under one ruler it was the best opportunity of the Ionians that had better fleets and Troy as leader because of the tax income, to rebel against Mycene. Why split the profits with the Mycenean King when they could have them all ? The Troin war lasted 10 years.
First because of the preparations that had to be on summer times.
Second of the recapture the allied to Troy islands agains in summer times.
The siege of Troy lasted 53 days.
Ten years with most of the productive male population away made the mycenean economy colapse. When the old rulers came back they found new ones waiting them to siege power!
But most of all the exiles to the north/north west had found a way to use iron and to make more effient use of horses. Those political exiles came back to revenge and took power in several places (Spartoi/Spartans), Argos, Athens, Macedon ..Its not accident that all Dorian royal fammilies of Sparta, Argos, Athens and Macedon were relatives!
Remember that the majority of waht we call Spartans in the clasic era were Ionians under the rule of a Dorian minority/rulling class the Spartoi that came down from Theva (that were have been exiled), to Argos and finally Sparta.
Troy was a turning point starting the Hellenic Dark ages but also starting the Hellenic colonistation Epos that influenced humanity untill today (Niss, Massalia etc)...
EDIT: Full documentary of Pavlopetri

[KLAssurbanipal]

My suggestion for Achilles:

[AnthoniusII]

My suggestion for Achilles:

Achilles' Armor (CAUTION ALL RIGHTS RESERVED This Image and consept BELONGS to Mr D.Katsikes and any use of it as reference or basis of any creation REQUIRES writen permision by the Creator Him Self).


Any use of this image for any purpose without a writen permision BY its Creator is ILEGAL.

[Daruwind]

Well there you have more photos on webside
https://www.hellenicarmors.gr/en/arm...BdpjQAVmvSZ1z0

[AnthoniusII]

Well there you have more photos on webside
https://www.hellenicarmors.gr/en/arm...BdpjQAVmvSZ1z0

True ..I personaly know mr Katsikes from the time he gave me his writen permision to use his material for the TGC mod.

[Lifthrasir]

Any copyright issue between any company (CA included) and any person (Mr. Katsikes included) is none of TWC business outside the site and above all absolutly not related to the topic of this thread. Further infringement may be infracted. Thank you for your understanding.

[Diocle]

I'd like to watch the Gods intervening on the battlefield! C'mon, Aphrodite saving her son Aeneas from the rage of Diomedes! Poseidon saving Aeneas' arse from the rage of Achilles!

I want Gods and Goddesses (of course) on the battlefield! Fighting hard, loving humans! Protecting their children and their lovers! I want the Iliad in all its splendor! Iliad is not just a poem, Iliad is our mom! There, they are our roots, not on the pages of a silly book written by and for Palestinian shepherds!



Jack, listen to me, please: gimme Aphrodite and/or Athena on the battle map and .. I'll give you my damn money!

[Daruwind]

New blog post from CA with some Saga info: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/develo...pdate-blog-02/

THE TELLING OF A SAGA
As has already been rumoured and mentioned lightly, we’re about to start singing an epic Saga. A tale of heroism and legendary events that has echoed down the ages.

We’re absolutely aware that Thrones of Britannia split its audience between those who felt it didn’t do enough, those who felt it was a roaring telling of the period, and some who list it as the best TW we’ve done.

Obviously, we’d love to make everyone happy, but these more experimental, extreme, and tightly scoped games have a real appeal for us. Thankfully Thrones was nevertheless a considerable success for us and continues to gain fans. This means we’ll be
revisiting the Total War Saga format again, looking to drill down into one of those decisive events from history and tell it in a new and interesting way.

We want to get the balance right between making a conventional Total War game at a tighter scale, that a wide audience can enjoy, but being brave with new features and dynamics to push the series forward in interesting ways.

We’re probably going to edge more towards the route of bravery, because that’s how legends are made. More on the next Saga title very soon!Rest assured though, we are always listening, and excited to see what you think of Total War in the next 12 months.

-Heroism+legendary events ....so Troy confirmed
-ToB was actually success for CA so Troy will probably be similar in certain ways...definitely it sounds like way with less DLCs
-route of bravery..legends
-more info soon

[Daruwind]

Epic...Gods...Monsters
Sounds more like Age of Mythology than Bronze Age Collapse and Heroes of course...
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co..._is_confirmed/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[AHumpierRogue]

To quote Grace when someone said "basically Age of Mythology TW" she responded with this:

love the speculation and we'll have more information on this VERY soon, but for now i just want to say that we're really focusing on the truth behind the myth...

I expect in spite of the PCgamer article hinting at it it may be more real than not. Still obviously heavily romanticiszed but I wouldn't expect minotaurs running about or whatever.

[Daruwind]

It is a Saga game so resources are limited so two modes (historical/heroic) are probably off table. So either it is one or other. :-) I´m perfectly fine with "real" world..more close to Bronze Age Collapse,better

[KLAssurbanipal]

Great news that will be mythological gods and monsters but I prefer Mycenaean armour, not fantasy like PC Gamer art.

[Daruwind]

Looks like we have new web page with more info being available tomorrow
https://mailchi.mp/2e528bb4699f/a-new-epic-saga-awaits

EDIT: btw this looks like development is way further and game is nearer...like in next 6-12 months

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I got a advertisement email from CA, that tomorrow 19. September 2019, 3 pm a new epic Saga will be announced.

The background of this email looks like ancient greek geometrical decoration.

So i think, its clear, it will be Troy, but as i'm not interested in strategy games, where invulnerable superheroes kills hundred of enemies, i think, i will pass this title again.