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Thread: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

  1. #21
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Okey, so CA release one more Antiquity (Rome/Greek) game. Either saga of full game. Then what?

  2. #22
    Nikron's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Okey, so CA release one more Antiquity (Rome/Greek) game. Either saga of full game. Then what?
    They can start releasing quality games every 2 years and nail every single launch. 2013 Rome II, 2015 better Attila, 2017 Medieval time, 2019 Victorian, and repeat. Somewhere in there you can add the WH for the fantasy fans which is obviously manageable since they have (claim) a separate team.

    And I'm trying to be reasonable because personally I would like a fresh antiquity game every 2-3 years and I'll pay for every DLC and Deluxe Edition or whatever else they feel like doing as long as it's decent.

    You need to start looking at things from a random gamer perspective not as a CA manager worrying so much about diversity. Most of the people don't care about shuffling as you either like a period and area of focus or you don't.

    I couldn't care less about the romance of the Three Kingdoms and leading those fancy coloured Chinese banner holders into village battles and some pathetic general duel that gives me an eyesore.

    If CA focuses on antiquity and releases it next year it would be 7 years since the latest antiquity release. They can't fool us with their hideous Wrath of Sparta, Empire Divided, and RotR (slightly better) DLCs while Warhammer keeps getting quick releases.

  3. #23
    Van Zandt's Avatar pulvis et umbra
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    A title I would really like to see would be based entirely on naval warfare. The Empire release in 2009 introduced a ingenious and fascinating new aspect of the TW series with naval battles. There are several options here including a classical period of warfare in antiquity with biremes and triremes, or the age of exploration with Portuguese, Spanish ,English and Pirates, or even something closer to the modern age like WWI and Jutland, or even the intense naval battles in the Mediterranean and Pacific in WW2.

  4. #24
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    They'd better make a Bronze Age Total War.

    That would be the richest setting, completely new technologies and new weapons and new city designs.

    They must announce the historical setting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!





















































  5. #25

    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    It probably depents on general CA plan. We are getting 3K and Shogun 2 is not so old so probably another Eastern themed game could be ruled out for near future (except situation that 3K would be total super success bigger than WHs), next in line is Wh3 so question is, what would be the next tent-pole game....
    Not necessarily. Attila TW came after Rome 2 TW, and Attila was basically still about the Romans and reused the exact same geographical area/map.

  6. #26

    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    No one talks about Shot and Pike. Why not? The period mid-to-late 1500s to end of Thirty Years War (1648) and including English Civil War has never been touched! Fresh for exploitation!

  7. #27
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by Intranetusa View Post
    Not necessarily. Attila TW came after Rome 2 TW, and Attila was basically still about the Romans and reused the exact same geographical area/map.
    That is true and Napoleon also was launched directly after Empire. But I badly worded reasons which might prevent CA from doing it again. Empire/Napoleon were successes but Attila directly after Rome 2 had no so great sales. Now from time perspective, launching "3K scenario" Saga2 game after end of 3K DLC cycle/lifetime is okey but the situation around Attila might prevent it. Especially if we do not know how long the DLC cycle for 3K will be.

    CA was willing to resurrect R2, Wh2 is getting more DLCs and Wh3 is still ahead, 3K is current big project....and if we are starting to talk about Saga2, it might appear before lifeccle for 3K ends. And that is probably no go for CA. Two dirrectly competing live games. If 3K is done by time Saga2 launch, then I have no problem....but judging from current speed of WH2 DlCs, it seems to me, the DLC lifecycle is being prolonged, slow down a little...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lannes1 View Post
    No one talks about Shot and Pike. Why not? The period mid-to-late 1500s to end of Thirty Years War (1648) and including English Civil War has never been touched! Fresh for exploitation!
    I have 2 objections to this scenario. But honestly i like the period, weaponry. Full of conflicts, wars....but:
    1) If it is focused on Europe (like close proximity), then it is almost like Napoleon. Little different (power)players, more reason, better politics, longer period...but unless the map is super detailed, it would be again the very same map we are fighting on in every second TW..
    2) I would always trade this setting for colonialism pediod. I just miss the option to expand empires, trade deals and trade wars, conflicts around whole world....but this scenario easily leads into full time Empire2/Victoria game. I mean if they are again revamping engine to hold mostly gun units, i would prefer deeper changes and more of them...sadly exceeding scope of Saga game :/

    EDIT:
    For example naval combat. Navy in Napoleon has very limited use, due to campaign map. You can use it in Mediteranean, around France/England and then around Denmark. For any land battles it is irrelevent and I would love to see improvement from Empire naval warfare.

    The war also had consequences abroad, as the European powers extended their rivalry via naval power to overseas colonies. In 1630, a Dutch fleet of 70 ships took the rich sugar-exporting areas of Pernambuco (Brazil) from the Portuguese, though the Dutch would lose them by 1654. Fighting also took place in Africa and Asia.

    Phillip II and III of Portugal used forts built from the destroyed temples, including Fort Fredrick in Trincomalee, and others in southern Ceylon such as Colombo and Galle Fort, to fight sea battles with the Dutch, Danish, French, and English. This was the beginning of the island's loss of sovereignty. Later the Dutch and English succeeded the Portuguese as colonial rulers of the island.[103][104]

    Outside the 30 year war...
    Although they were sorely defeated in the Battle of Lepanto (1571) by the Holy League, the Ottomans soon rebuilt their naval strength, and afterwards successfully defended the island of Cyprus so that it would stay in Ottoman hands. However, with the concurrent Age of Discovery, Europe had far surpassed the Ottoman Empire, and successfully bypassed their reliance on land-trade by discovering maritime routes around Africa and towards the Americas.
    The first naval action in defense of the new colonies was just ten years after Vasco da Gama's epochal landing in India. In March 1508, a combined Gujarati/Egyptian force surprised a Portuguese squadron at Chaul, and only two Portuguese ships escaped. The following February, the Portuguese viceroy destroyed the allied fleet at Diu, confirming Portuguese domination of the Indian Ocean.

    In 1582, the Battle of Ponta Delgada in the Azores, in which a Spanish-Portuguese fleet defeated a combined French and Portuguese force, with some English direct support, thus ending the Portuguese succession crisis, was the first battle fought in mid-Atlantic.


    In 1588, Spanish King Philip II sent his Armada to subdue the English fleet of Elizabeth, but Admiral Sir Charles Howard defeated the Armada, marking the rise to prominence of the English Royal Navy. However it was unable to follow up with a decisive blow against the Spanish navy, which remained the most important for another half century. After the war's end in 1604 the English fleet went through a time of relative neglect and decline.


    In the 16th century, the Barbary states of North Africa rose to power, becoming a dominant naval power in the Mediterranean Sea due to the Barbary pirates. The coastal villages and towns of Italy, Spain and Mediterranean islands were frequently attacked, and long stretches of the Italian and Spanish coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants; after 1600 Barbary pirates occasionally entered the Atlantic and struck as far north as Iceland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_...e#Early_modern

    If Ca is doing pike and shot, I would love this early exploration feeling. And that is again out of the scope for Saga game. I donīt know honestly....What do you think guys?
    Last edited by Daruwind; April 22, 2019 at 07:05 PM.

  8. #28
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wandering Storyteller View Post
    They'd better make a Bronze Age Total War.

    That would be the richest setting, completely new technologies and new weapons and new city designs.

    They must announce the historical setting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
    I agree ...that would make CA/SEGA's siege escalation system ACCURATE according to the Myth of Jesus of Navi that brought down walls with horns!!

    But then again...You ask fro CA/SEGA to create new city models when in ATTILA TW they created almost none?
    One settlement battle model per kind/per size/per culture. Do you wish then (CA/SEGA devs) to get tired inorder to gain their salleriew now that they have learned to earn them without any effort?
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  9. #29
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    I agree ...that would make CA/SEGA's siege escalation system ACCURATE according to the Myth of Jesus of Navi that brought down walls with horns!!

    But then again...You ask fro CA/SEGA to create new city models when in ATTILA TW they created almost none?
    One settlement battle model per kind/per size/per culture. Do you wish then (CA/SEGA devs) to get tired inorder to gain their salleriew now that they have learned to earn them without any effort?
    I would refer to older post from Jack Lusten about siege maps in ToB
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussi...ment-design/p1
    question was about siege maps..
    An interesting question. Not quite in a position to talk about minor settlement battles yet as it relates to how provinces are designed in Thrones, but I can talk about major settlements.

    The blunt answer is we're making all new settlement maps based off of settlements from the time period, with adjustments as needed for the scale of Total War battles. Some of the historic settlements from this period in reality wouldn't have enough space for more than 2 or 3 units so some artistic liberty has been taken.

    We've gone for variety with settlement map design, so settlement maps don't level up as settlements grow in the campaign (no settlements really massively grew in terms of their physical footprint in this period) and they don't change depending on owner. There are over a dozen different settlement maps, with no map being used to represent more than 5 different places on the map. The key is giving variety across the campaign so as you campaign in Ireland you see different ones to England, or to Scotland.

    Whether settlements have wooden or stone walls will depend on where they are on the map. Many of the old Roman walls in places like London or York still survived in this period and those settlements will have Roman walls in the game. The plan is for there to be artillery as there has been in previous Total Wars, but it will not be available straight away and some factions may never gain access to it. Even when they are available they'll have quite limited availability.

    This means for most of the game sieges will be about rams and towers and hacking your way through the gates and into settlements. The aim is definitely for sieges to feel very different to Attila or Rome II, and the maps most definitely look different.
    Campaign map for ToB has 228 regions, 62 provincies so 62 major settlements. Thatīs really around 5 times per one major siege map. I can honestly say, after 20 campaigns, It is enough variety even with one "culture" and one tier of settlements. Minor settlements battles are more often and are without walls (iīm using mod which is adding garrison to the minor settlements). Walls are obstacles for most of the game as only offensive siege unit - catapults, is very very rare. Siege Towers and Rams can be constructed normally during besieging the city, a few items per turn of siege. Also there is no siege escalation in ToB. No artilerry for slowly grinding away the walls...

    (In this spot, I would say that the siege escalation feature makes sense in general. Long sieges mean repeating assaults, possible attrition to both defenders and attackers. Instead of removing such option. I would expand it. Allow digging tunnels as another item into siege prodcut line, trying to make breaches..those would produce more siege escalation bonuses for attacker at the increased attrition. While allow defenders to counter those actively at cost as well attrition. For example counter tunneling, counter short attacks with aim of damaging siege equipment...I have personally no problem with destroyed segment of walls as result of siege escalation, if defenders are able to put around barricades, pikes, etc..deployables it would be awesome but getting active buttons for triggering sappers would be super awesome. But in the end, we have simplified version where wall damage happenes over time as a result of the siege itself. Nothing magical. )

    Overall unless the scope of game would change I would expect similar level of Saga 2. I would love to see more cultural versions, more tiers, more variety, however hand made maps are hardly beaten. Some randomly oriented set of tiles is not better way to go. I simply cannot imagine having 200+ walled cities with multiple culture and tier variants. ?aybe having a few variants for walled minor settlements.

    One factor I have to stress. The battle maps look awesome in general. Like in graphical sense, they have very nice colours, details, especially marshes and that is one feature I would like to see more often. More of small cliffs, ravines, little more steep hills. Just little. At least there are no amplified terrain features outside boundaries of real world like in Empire,Napoleon and Rome 2, it it way better. I like how maps are featuring different features according to what kind of minor settlement the battles is being fought upon..for example mines etc. And enviroment is nicely catching fire (trees, buildings) ..Attila +

    https://i.redd.it/jf1qqshej2d21.jpg
    https://i.redd.it/sxkpf26q0xj21.jpg
    https://i.redd.it/us4c3ffvi0f21.jpg
    https://i.redd.it/swfr3hlagbz01.jpg

    One problem in ToB is size of fights. Rarely Iīm fighting 2 stacks at the same time. Usually at best it is 1 stack + major city garrison. And that is way to small for those maps. I donīt need more maps,I need Ai with more units manning 2-3 line defense. Those maps are awesome for player/player fights but for kicking Ai i usually use just small porticon of the map and that is shame.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    This thread is about a futur game from the Total War Saga serie after ToB. All posts above related to critics of Attila have been deleted. For such topic about Attila, please use the relevant thread or forum.
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  11. #31

    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Zandt View Post
    A title I would really like to see would be based entirely on naval warfare. The Empire release in 2009 introduced a ingenious and fascinating new aspect of the TW series with naval battles. There are several options here including a classical period of warfare in antiquity with biremes and triremes, or the age of exploration with Portuguese, Spanish ,English and Pirates, or even something closer to the modern age like WWI and Jutland, or even the intense naval battles in the Mediterranean and Pacific in WW2.
    For a SAGA title this actually looks like a really viable idea. It explores an underdog in mechanics for the series, giving CA an opportunity to hone the subject and flesh it out at a scale precedented by ToB. It's relatively new and if done right, it could stand out as unique while still being recognizably Total War to an audience knowing Empire as the latest period of tech.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lannes1 View Post
    No one talks about Shot and Pike. Why not? The period mid-to-late 1500s to end of Thirty Years War (1648) and including English Civil War has never been touched! Fresh for exploitation!
    The 30 Years War is a game I would like to see as the next TW Saga game title.

    That war also had a historical importance to the diplomacy and the peace conference that followed in Westphalia 1648.
    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.

  13. #33
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    I agree ...that would make CA/SEGA's siege escalation system ACCURATE according to the Myth of Jesus of Navi that brought down walls with horns!!

    But then again...You ask fro CA/SEGA to create new city models when in ATTILA TW they created almost none?
    One settlement battle model per kind/per size/per culture. Do you wish then (CA/SEGA devs) to get tired inorder to gain their salleriew now that they have learned to earn them without any effort?
    CA never do create big city maps which they are entirely capable of doing. Attila's cities had bottle shaped cities and some horrendous layouts. You didn't have any multi-level cities. 3K seems to have good cities, but they're too small and they're not that big. I've not seen a fully upgraded city - they said the buildings you build in the campaign map appear in the city. So far no individual city.

    Ironically there was a cheat code in RTW - Jericho. No wonder it was so accuracte!

    What I want is that CA starts making serious effort in their city maps. Most of them are all medium sized - look at the cities of RTW and tell me if they aren't big enough and they look so wonderful. Why should TOB mind you thatched settlements made of wood and hay - have more emphasis put on them than cities made of marble and stone? Granite?

    I can go on about how Rome II has the most un-diverse lack of cities known to all mankind all day. Maybe I'll make a post on it one day.

    What you would see in Bronze Age - Egyptian Buildings will need to be re-made - you can't rely on the RII buildings for this. You need new temples and statures, and you need to add in a lot of campaign map details for Egypt for this matter. Assyrian and Babylonian Cities will need new models - because the recent RII Eastern cities are just copy and paste. There's no new individual city laylouts.

    I don't understand your last question, but CA have been making these games for years, doesn't hurt at all to put in the extra effort for cities...and may I remind you of the infamous city in all of total war history? Carthage.....till date the game has nothing resembling the alpha siege of Carthage.

    They should really announce the new Saga Title. Their communication style is horrendous. Announce!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





















































  14. #34

    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Something like in the Era of the 30 Years of War would be interesting:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  15. #35
    cenkiss's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    reconquista or the broken crescent, crusades are good scopes for a saga game with different factions, units and gameplay and a name recognizable era. thrones of britannia was just too monotonous and boring really.

  16. #36
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

    Aztecs, Inca, India or another period in mainland east asia, in that order. I didn't buy Thrones of Britannia and I won't buy another european based game until at least 3 of the previously mentioned are made into games.

    I ain't jokin' when it comes to mah paintings ಠ_ಠ

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