New SAGA #2 (after ToB)

[Jurand of Cracow]

I think there'll be two sorts of experience:
- arcade warfare with gods and heroses for the Warhammer-like people,
- historical-based warfare for the other guys.

What I'm a bit surprised is that after many units in Warhammer using the renaissance-like warfare style, there's no Columbus TW yet. The units and style from WH could be used and also two modes: one god-like in America, and one historical-based elsewhere.

Is Jack Lusted still in the CA team?

[Daruwind]

I think there is good reason to explain multiple time the focus of game. To create narrative and prevent backlash. Because truth is, once they reveal it properly, set release date...there will be plenty comments where are proper Minotaurs, Cyclops, Chimeras and Heroes...Just saw lower post on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...ulp/pontus_20/
(Damnit Abdul you posted the same stuff!! )
False expectations are CA´s long term problems...R2, ToB. So I think CA is slowly trying to foreshadow that this is more history and not fantasy title. (Ye, of course lot stuff will be fictional stuff but as based upon history rather than having proper monsters, magic etc...)

Second point is, combat in my eyes will be way similar to ToB. Infantry focus, some cavalry but mostly light. Those Minotaurs, Cyclops...sounds like super heavy elite infantry. Put there some archers, chariots not sure we will even see elephants DD ...and it is ToB2.0 . CA said they want enviroment to play bigger role so I hope for that as it would probably change battles in tactical ways. Battles in ToB were mechanically clean, good but there is very few aspects on battlefied to utilize..like having multiple rivers, bridges, small marshes, high grass around to hide not 20 units but 1-3 and so.

3K DLC was in March, Wh2 now in May....if the development is 4-5 months, we can see next batch in July/August for 3K and September/October for Wh2. I would still pin the Troy after those two so maybe November? That original date is after all November 20th. So with whole Covid...it just sounds right.

[AHumpierRogue]

The Cyclops reminds me of Kong Rong, but with skulls instead of scrolls. Creative Assembly seems a bit defensive on their policy of compromise between mythology and archeology. Isn't the third or fourth time that they try to explain why they chose that approach? They are probably a bit worried about the lack of enthusiasm in the social media platforms* (yesterday was one of the rare days, where critical comments were more popular than praising ones), but, in my opinion, the low hype is more the result of the radio silence on behalf of CA, due to the release being postponed than a genuine indifference to the theme. Anyway, the marketing campaign seems to be escalating, so I wouldn't be surprised if the release date and the pre-order bonuses are announced on June 9. If that happens, Troy will probably be released sometime in early September, which generally speaking sounds like a reasonable estimation. It also leaves enough time for the Vietnam DLC and the last lord pack for Warhammer II before Christmas. Then, either in late 2020 or early 2021, I wouldn't be surprised if Warhammer III was revealed.

*Stolen from the wolf's lair itself, be warned that there are several censor bypasses.

Just to clarify, the 3K DLC won't be about Vietnam but will rather be about the Nanman. The Nanman are a group of "Barbarians"(for what that word is worth) living around Yunnan in modern day China.

Technically of course, Nanman just means "Southern Barbarians" so the Viet are theoretically included in that figure, but when someone says Nanman in relation to the 3K era they generally mean the peoples living in and around Yunnan.

[Nebaki]

Why not 1453: Sweet Greek Tears

[_TotalWar_]

Why not 1453: Sweet Greek Tears

And what on Earth this has to do with this thread or with Total War: Troy? Anyway, for me I think CA is taking an interesting approach with that "truth behind the myth" orientation. As an historian myself, I share the opinion that the legendary "monsters" and creatures present in mythology (and in this case, Greek mythology) have in fact a basis in historical fact. Of course, for such an ancient era, for which the sources are either scarce or difficult to perceive, any reconstruction work is very difficult. I'm very curious to (at last) see gameplay videos to watch how it all plays out in gaming terms.

[Daruwind]

Truth behind myth is interested approach, however I´m kinda sad they opted for Troy instead of full Bronze Age Collapse. CA seems to focus on greeks vs Troy (simplification don´t hit me ) while I would love the extended map with all players around. But such scope is probably too much for Saga game..

Then again trading, interconnected big states, slow deteoriation of resources and enviroment ala Attila, endgame Sea people invasions...such easy classic TW scheme...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Anna_Gein]

Truth be told I rather have CA concentrate on Troy war alone and do it right than attempt to cover the entire Mediterranean Civilizations and have models, factions and a poor map as in Attila.

[Daruwind]

Alert alert! Troy Trailer!

[Daruwind]

Plus Epic Announcement
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/a-tota...c-games-store/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here it is: A Total War Saga: TROY is an Epic Games Store exclusive for 12 months – and will be available for free if you claim it in the first 24 hours.


That’s right – we’re giving away TROY for free, to keep, as long as you claim it in the 24 hour window!


We’re really excited about TROY, and we’re even more excited that this will give more of you the chance to play and enjoy it than might have had it otherwise. While we know that some of you won’t like the Epic Games Store exclusivity, we feel like this is a great opportunity for us in a lot of ways, and we’re hoping that you’ll take some time to hear us out and for us to answer what some of the questions we think you might have.


First of all: this is an opportunity for TROY specifically, and we have no plans for future games to be Epic exclusives. As developers we truly value our existing fans, but at the same time we want to reach new audiences and have as many people as possible experiencing the thrill of Total War for themselves. As a business that means putting Total War onto new platforms so that it can reach more players. This is part of that and in principal we’d like future Total War titles to be simultaneously available, from launch day, on as many store fronts as possible.


Right now, this is a one-time, one-year exclusive deal for TROY. We’ve always said that Saga titles allow us to experiment, and this is an experiment on a grand scale. TROY seemed like a good game to try this out with, especially as pre-orders aren’t live on Steam yet, so no one’s already put money into a store they’ll have to wait 12 extra months for it to appear on.


So now that’s out the way, here’s a little more backstory. Epic approached us and asked if TROY could be an Epic exclusive, as part of a commercial deal. That’s not to say that we immediately signed on the dotted line, or that money was the only reason that we did this (it’s not!). It was a difficult decision, and you can be assured that there were a lot of differing opinions in the studio, and a lot of discussions about it – which largely focussed on what it would mean for you, the players.


However, ultimately we considered two things. First we’re at a time when we’re looking to invest more into the ongoing development of Total War this felt like an opportunity to really move the franchise forward by getting it in front of more people. Secondly, Epic were paying for our players to have our latest release free on day one. For Total War’s 20th birthday, that felt like an opportunity too good to pass up.


As mentioned, and like others in the industry, a key reason for exploring other digital stores is that we don’t want to be limited just to Steam. We also want to diversify our business. In fact, we want to get our games onto as many stores as possible. Long term, we want to expand where players find Total War. This deal gives us a great way to try out other platforms, such as Epic – to see what works for us and what doesn’t. It allows us to get a feel for the development required to expand to other platforms, and it’s relatively risk-free for you, too, as the game’s available for free when claimed in the first 24 hours.


This opportunity allows expansive back-end infrastructure development that will allow us to expand into multiple stores. That means we can have more resources, push ourselves further, be more creative, make more Total War.
We’re always looking to evolve and improve on our games and this deal gives us a lot of ways to do that – as we said, fresh perspectives, money that we’ll be putting back into the studio, new ways to expand.


You might not immediately see a big change, but we’re confident you will over time – and we guarantee there are a lot of things behind the scenes being made possible due to this, which we wouldn’t otherwise have the chance to do. Some of this is long-term – but there are short-term benefits to you, as well as us.


Making it available for free, for everyone to keep, during the first 24 hours – wouldn’t have been possible without this deal.


Finally, we’ve got just one favour to ask – however you feel about this, please keep any criticism to the studio as a whole, and don’t take it out on individual employees that you might find on various social media platforms.). We get it. It’s unexpected. But they’re not going to be able to change anything, and probably weren’t the ones who made the decision regardless.


We really think you’ll love TROY, and hey, it’s free so definitely give it a shot, redeem your 24 hour freebie and enjoy the game. If not, it’ll just be a year until it’s available on Steam. Ultimately, we think that this is good for our players, good for Creative Assembly, and therefore good for Total War.


Thank you for reading.

Plus FAQ:
https://www.totalwar.com/games/troy/troy-faq/

- part - Epic exclusive for 1 year, no modding probably, no cross platform play....ok
-release date 13th August 2020
-Free for first 24 hours
-Release DLC - Amazons

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A Total War Saga: TROY FAQ


A Total War Saga: TROY will reconstruct one of the greatest stories ever told. Inspired by Homer’s Iliad, TROY will let you forge a heroic legacy in the late Bronze Age, the furthest back in time the Total War franchise has ever travelled.

Homer’s Iliad is rich with myth, legends, gods and monsters. TROY casts these stories through a historical lens to consider what might have really happened but ultimately lets you decide which heroes will fall in battle and which will be immortalised in legend.

In TROY, the fate of Aegean civilisation will be in your hands – each choice you make will shape the lands from the mythical heights of Mount Olympus to the arid deserts of Lemnos. Experience history as it might have happened or shape the legend for yourself in this unique chapter of Total War.

The battlefields will tremble under the feet of renowned warriors like Achilles and Hector but it will take more than brute force alone to lay claim to the legendary city of Troy. You will need to deftly manage a barter economy, conduct diplomacy among friends and foes, and curry the very favour of the Gods themselves before etching your name in the annals of history.

RELEASE AND PURCHASE
When will A Total War Saga: TROY be released?
A Total War Saga: TROY will be released on the Epic Games Store on the 13th of August 2020 – add it to your wishlist here. You can also sign up to Total War Access and opt in to receive our newsletter to save the date.
TROY will also be released on Steam in Summer 2021.

Will A Total War Saga: TROY be available from other online retailers?
A Total War Saga: TROY will available via the Epic Games Store from the 13th of August 2020 and later on Steam in summer 2021.
Currently we are only planning on releasing TROY on these platforms.

Is A Total War Saga: TROY really free?
Yes, but only if you claim it in the first 24 hours after release on the 13th of August 2020!

How do I claim my free copy of A Total War Saga: TROY?
Visit the Epic Games Store at release and pick up your copy here.

If I own A Total War Saga: TROY on Epic, will I need to rebuy it in order to play it on Steam?
If you specifically want to own and play A Total War Saga: TROY on Steam, you will need to buy it on the corresponding platform, so make sure you grab it for free on the Epic Games Store while you can!

Why did you decide to release A Total War Saga: TROY on the Epic Games Store?
For a detailed breakdown on the details of Epic exclusivity, check out our blog.

Will any other releases be Epic Games Store exclusives?
We currently have no plans for any future games to be Epic exclusives. We do want to be more platform agnostic moving forward (this decision is part of that), and we would like future games to be available on the Epic Games Store, but that’s in addition to being available on other platforms such as Steam.

Will cross-platform play be supported?
We currently have no plans to support cross-platform play between the Epic Games Store and Steam copies of A Total War Saga: TROY.

Will Denuvo or similar digital rights management (DRM) software be implemented via the Epic Games Store?
Yes, we are planning on using Denuvo for DRM purposes.

Will modding be supported on Epic?
Currently, the Epic Games Store does not support mods. However, it is on Epic’s roadmap.

ABOUT THE GAME
What is a Total War Saga title?

Total War Saga titles take the grand strategy and real-time battles of a core Total War game and channel them into an intense flashpoint of history, letting you experience and ultimately determine the outcome of pivotal moments in history when the future of entire nations hung in the balance.

Having all the depth, features, and mechanics of a major era Total War game, Total War Saga titles offer a comparable number of factions, heroes, and settlements to their core counterparts as well as hundreds of hours of gameplay potential.

Total War Saga titles are our chance to think differently in our designs, often leading to new ideas, mechanics, and perspectives that go on to influence future era titles.

For more information on different types of Total War title, check out the relevant section of our FAQ.

Why did you choose TROY?
TROY is a totally new period for Total War and is the furthest back we’ve ever gone in history. Unlike our major era Total War Games, our Total War Saga titles tend to focus on key flashpoints in history, often within a singular culture, meaning the 20-year war Trojan War is the perfect fit.

This period is also one of the most distinguished and mysterious within human history due to it being rich in myth, legend, heroes and monsters, allowing us to explore a plethora of new ideas for our fans to experience.

How did you go about your research to this period?
Given that the Trojan War period is steeped in mystery, we took a unique approach to our research methodologies, using both mythological sources such as Homer’s Iliad as well as historical data such as archaeological recordings and expert materials on the Bronze Age Collapse. This merging of source material not only gives us a more accurate representation of what the period most likely resembled, but also provided us with our core “truth behind the myth” design pillar.

Why did you decide upon the myth versus legend approach?
The events surrounding the Trojan war are steeped in legend, with mythological creatures, superhuman heroes and the intervention of Gods all descending on this cataclysmic conflict. However, little is precisely known about the real-world events that occurred during the late Bronze Age, with many of its kings, queens, and artefacts lost to the annals of history.
As a result, examining the truth behind the myth of Homer’s Iliad has become a key design pillar for A Total War Saga: TROY as it bonds these two sources together in an attempt to reveal the truth that might have inspired the legendary accounts of this era.

Will there be any mythical creatures?
Our truth behind the myth approach has allowed us to include some of mythology’s most renowned monsters as historical representations of what their true form may have been. A prime example of this is the legendary Minotaur, who instead of being a beast is a hulking man clad in stinking hides and wearing the skull of a bull.

What role do the gods play?
The Greek gods of TROY influence the game in similar ways to their Homeric counterparts. Rather than directly intervening on the battlefield, however, their influence spans their entire faction, touching on units, heroes, and provincial management.

Gaining favour with the different gods might require players to invest time or sacrifice resources, but it also provides various benefits as the game progresses. Praying to Poseidon can temporarily remove deep sea attrition, whereas following Aphrodite improves diplomatic relations and population growth. Athena provides bonuses in battle for spearmen and higher ranks for new heroes (among other things). Ultimately, at the highest level each cult unlocks a unique mythical unit or epic agent to recruit in the campaign.

Players will have the ability to worship several gods at once, but this will weigh heavily on their treasury as keeping the favour up requires constant attention and spending on grand hecatombs, building temples, and performing expensive rituals. On the other hand, having gods in the Neglected state might incur their wrath (or that of their priesthood) in the form of incidents and demoralizing ill omens.

Will there be naval battles?
There is little documentation of Bronze Age naval warfare – but we know how important it is to our players. As a result, we’ve used Total War: WARHAMMER II – Curse of the Vampire Coast as our main inspiration for the naval combat in TROY, which uses island battles as an alternative. Additionally, Poseidon will, of course, also play a major role in these battles.

Will there be any duelling mechanics like in Total War: THREE KINGDOMS?
A Total War Saga: TROY has its own unique take on hero versus hero combat which ensures that these colossal faceoffs are spectacles worthy of the Olympian gods. Units close to two fighting heroes will always recognize their superiority and will give them room, creating a circular battle area around them that prevents other units from intervening in the duel. Some heroes also have a Divine Challenge ability, which is an active battle ability that taunts opposing characters into one-on-one combat.

Which famous heroes will feature in A Total War Saga: TROY?
The Iliad features a multitude of history’s most iconic legendary heroes, with their feats still regularly referenced centuries after their demise. As a result, we’ve included eight of the most prominent champions from both sides of the conflict, such as the Greek champion Achilles, and the Prince of Troy Hector.

What is Amazons?
Amazons is a DLC for A Total War Saga: TROY that will also come out on the 13th of August 2020 – more details on this will be revealed soon.

How will the economy work in TROY?
A Total War Saga: TROY introduces a completely new multiple resource economy which reflects the Bronze Age setting. This economic system is a Total War first and reflects the advancing pre-monetary barter economy which was galvanized due to the growing influence of trade and international relations within the region.

The five different resources that are the building blocks of your empire are food, wood, stone, bronze, and gold – all of which can be found within different regions to varying degrees of scarcity. Food and wood are used to recruit early game units and construct simple buildings, but as the campaign progresses more formidable structures will require stone, and higher tier units will require bronze. Gold is the master resource, and is vital for trade due to its universal rarity.

What can you tell us about A Total War Saga: TROY’s visual style?
With stunning visuals and a romanticised art style, TROY embodies an age of legend. You’ll see this echoed throughout the campaign overview and user interface, which blends the Hellenic artistry of the Iliad with a real-world representation of the Bronze Age Mediterranean.

Is there a Trojan horse?
The Trojan horse will have a major role to play within the TROY campaign. However, it will be portrayed in line with the theories surrounding its real-world representation rather than its equine-shaped portrayal in the Iliad. The Trojan horse mechanic will appear in the campaign at specific moments, and can provide significant bonuses to players should it be acted upon quickly enough.

What role will diplomacy play?
As with all Total War games, diplomacy will play a key part in A Total War Saga: TROY. TROY’s diplomacy system builds on what we’ve learned from Total War: THREE KINGDOMS, allowing you to keep your allies sweet, your enemies in their place, and change the entire course of the Trojan war should you choose to. We’ll also be introducing plenty of new diplomatic features which are unique to TROY – watch this space for more information as we release it.

[Benjin]

Truth behind myth is interested approach, however I´m kinda sad they opted for Troy instead of full Bronze Age Collapse. CA seems to focus on greeks vs Troy (simplification don´t hit me ) while I would love the extended map with all players around. But such scope is probably too much for Saga game..

Then again trading, interconnected big states, slow deteoriation of resources and enviroment ala Attila, endgame Sea people invasions...such easy classic TW scheme...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, I know what you mean - the bronze age collapse is a fantastic setting for a Total War game. I'm not too sure why it's not often represented in games, films etc. That's why I joined the Age of Bronze team for TW:R2 last year - they're going for that exact setting and I want to help them realise that dream visually-speaking (I focus on the 3D art side of it while they focus on the campaign).

[Daruwind]

New images from Epic store at least..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[lolIsuck]

Kind of impressive CA killed the hype before it even managed to take off.

[Anna_Gein]

You know it is bad when our brother Daruwind enters rant mode ...

WTF did CA think when they made that decision ?

[Daruwind]

Heh @Anna_Gein , CA probably realized that they will get more money this way...which is somehow hinting that it would not track so much on steam. Or CA is super sure and prepare to possibly lose another ToB game because Wh2/3K are bringing enough home? We will see.... I honestly don´t care about others stores or if other people will get it for free. I won´t despite having all titles on steam (some re-bought after originally getting CDs..) but even I have some personal red lines..

in mean time new stuff...




And pictures

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Anna_Gein]

Heh @Anna_Gein , CA probably realized that they will get more money this way...which is somehow hinting that it would not track so much on steam. Or CA is super sure and prepare to possibly lose another ToB game because Wh2/3K are bringing enough home? We will see.... I honestly don´t care about others stores or if other people will get it for free. I won´t despite having all titles on steam (some re-bought after originally getting CDs..) but even I have some personal lines..

You do not need to justify yourself anyway. My comment was because you are usually very positive on the forums. Something I find pleasant tbh.

I share your feeling that this may be based on insecurity back in CA offices regarding Troy potential sells. Or maybe it totally makes sense businessmen wise due to something we ignore. I saw someone on Reddit who suggested Steam gets something like 30% of the money from a sell while Epic gets only around 12%. If this is remotely accurate, then it totally makes sense for CA to negotiate a time limited exclusivity on Epic.

Personally I do not have any hostilities against Epic. The first issue I have with it is kind of ridiculous : I just dont want to have too many game service platforms running on my PC. I already have Steam, Origins and Uplay. Adding Epic to this list feels too much right now. As for the future, who knows ? I recently created an account on Epic to benefit from an offer (GTA V for free). Even if I stopped short of installing Epic and actually playing GTA lol. But I imagine this aggressive marketing campaign by Epic is somewhat working on some levels.

[lolIsuck]

Those bottom two pictures don't look all that good, I guess it's at least partially because of the lack of shadows. Looks like a hasty photoshop attempt really. That campaign map still looks good though.

It feels like CA/SEGA has already written it off to me. The trailer wasn't posted by a CA account on Reddit, they have done almost nothing to build hype (boring trailer included) and the Epic Store step smells like them picking a guaranteed sum over possibly disappointing sales numbers.

All in all pretty disappointed, I wasn't really hyped for this but at least curious. This has killed a good part of that.

[Daruwind]

I don´t doubt CA crumbled numbers hard and think this is best way for them in this situation (which might be telling about situation a lot)..but as I wrote elsewhere:

"I don´t doubt CA will hand out a lot copies this way. However will those people create community? Will enough modders be there? Are those people even interesting in mods? That´s the question. I fear a lot of those will get it just because it is free, will try it and leave long before Troy will hit steam.. "

To simplify it, CA will hand out a lot copies (and get cash for it), so there is no need to build hype for them.. But how many will buy later DLCs (if there are any) or stick around? Plus when EPIC store lacks almost everything...Especially in year, how many will buy it again...So it makes sense for Saga title, however it is angering me. I would pay +20 bucks on steam because I can. (I´m lucky, money is not problem for me but don´t think I waste them...I got out of Star Citizen pretty soon). Having choice is what matters to me. I would be perfectly fine if there were obstacle to get it on steam...cross platform compatibility, porting console to PC, MAC....

[valerius karamanus]

Ugh.. this begs for a skin rework mod. I want my gray armored Myrmidons. And maybe a new shader setting for battles. Campaign map looks alright enough.

[_TotalWar_]

Awful decision by CA in the eyes of the consumer at least. If Epic Store pays them a bucket of €€€, well, good for them, and let's hope they will use it wisely. What is worse in all this is in fact that this decision doesn't bode well for the future of Total War as a publisher of historical-based strategy games, which was their trade mark; all tips are in Warhammer right now. The Warhammer games are great in themselves, and fantasy-wise I'd love to see a TW based on Lord of the Rings/Tolkien legendarium (even if I fear they'd pale in comparison with some mods for TW games), but I think that this current move shows, most of anything else, that CA/SEGA had little faith in Troy. It's a shame. Let's hope that future historical-based games will be made with some more "assurance" and resources, so to speak.

[douglas]

Not going to sign up for Epic myself, but will reserve my thoughts on the game until it is available next year.