Deteriorating Situation in Venezuela

[Prodromos]

What do Hezbollah and Iran have to do with Venezuela?

Good question. Why is Maduro providing support and shelter to Hezbollah and Iran? What is Maduro's reason for turning Venezuela into a FOB for US enemies?

[Aexodus]

Really? What do Hezbollah and Iran have to do with Venezuela? And what is everyone's problem with Cuba, seriously, has anyone who believes in evil Cuba actually been there? The only problem that Cuba has is that it is poor. If every poor Caribbean country is the enemy then boy, do you have some invading to do.

Cuba being friends with North Korea isn’t great tbh

[Vanoi]

You're right, I did phrase this wrong. What I meant to say was, Guaido declared himself President and is instantly recognized by United States and many, if not most, other countries. United States recognizing Guaido is a huge escalation of the conflict in my eyes. Symbolically, at the very least. I also think that this was yet another geopolitical blunder by us.

It was an escalation but with out support the opposition can't do anything. That's the way it's been even since the Chavez years.

I disagree. I think indefinitely helping South America with the refugee crisis is the first and the very least, that United States can do. I don't know how much you know about the history of South America, but we've essentially strong armed the majority of that continent into toeing a certain line. If we want real allies, instead of sycophants, than we need to start repairing the damage we've caused over the last century.

Best way to solve the refugee crisis is to solve why they are leaving their country in the first place. Stabalize the situation and there won't be people fleeing. Syria is far more stabalize now and you don't see even remotely as many refugees foeeing now as you did years ago.

Mexico, a country we have very good relations with, is our ally out of fear of necessity. Compare that relationship to our relationship with Canada, a country that genuinely sees us as an ally and friend.

Mexico values US help in their drug problem. Russians and Chinese nor the EU are helping them. The relationship with Mexico is far more complicated starting with two wars in the 1800s. Not the same with Canada. Saying they Ally out of fear is crap really at best. Ignores the reality of the situation now. What does Mexico have to really feat?

Our stance on Venezuela and Cuba makes us look like the world's biggest ing hypocrites. We should've approached the situation carefully and with grace. Instead, we engage in these hardline antics like it's the Cold War. What's next? We start preparing for a low-scale intervention if the Guaido opposition starts an open rebellion?

Cuba I agree. Venezuela has had numerous chances of the years. The OAS, the opposition, the Pope, and many other others have tried to solve the situation gracefully. It hasn't worked. It's only gotten worse and now there's a humanitarian situation. And you want to handle this gracefully when it's failed and people can't even get basic needs because of Maduro?

Maduro has all the cards. He can call a recall referendum at any time. Is he? the

And believe me, I think it could really come down to that. While Maduro enjoys a lot of support in the military and still has a sizable loyalist chunk among the people, there are many people who are sick and tired of his regime and will likely fight for a better life if they think it's the only option they have left. What then? Are we going to bomb Maduro? Are we going to supply arms? Are we going to demand Maduro steps down?

America has never been shy about supporting authoritarians and military governments in the past. If our mandate is avoiding violence, we need to drastically change our policy regarding South America. My suggesting, is to negotiate Russian and Chinese debts in order to broker a power-sharing agreement with Maduro. As in, we will help with Russian and Chinese debts, in exchange for Maduro enacting reforms in the country, and agreeing to step down after his current term. There are a lot of things America can do in order to get the result we want. And if we really want to dominate South America, we have to win their "hearts and minds".

Of course this'll never happen. This is the same kind of foreign policy that hails Plan Colombia as a resounding success.

Maduro would never share power. Same thing was speculated about Assad in Syria. He ain't stepping down or giving up anything. Syria's a great example of where avoiding violence for sake of diplomacy led to hundreds of thousands of deaths and people being gassed like it was WW1.

The situation was out of control a long time ago. Now it's just gonna get worse.

It is incredibly irresponsible and ineffective. This is the opposite of Monroe Doctrine.

Maybe the original Monroe Doctrine. It's evolved far past it's original purpose. It's been used for a while as nothing but a justification to interfere in the business of South American countries. This is very much in line with Monroe Doctrine.

[Caduet]

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/statu...26515292508162

Good to know if rubio posted here, he'd probably get banned lol. we should really update the ToS to reflect the reality of modern political discourse.

Also its a pretty telling comparison. isreal-first neocons toppled Gaddafi and had him get sodomized to death by knives which directly led to the opening of the Mediterranean for refugee hordes to flood into europe. Toppling Maduro will likely have the same effect in this hemisphere. all israel-firsters need to be deported to israel where they belong.

[Mayer]

Muammar al-Gaddafi was 70% a good guy, I absolutely despised NATO's "humanitarian" excuse for the destruction of Libya. Another reason why i can not support intervention in Venezuela in any shape or form. Forcing a nation into submission is not exporting freedom, it's slavery.

Cuba being friends with North Korea isn’t great tbh

Why not? I am also a friend of North Korea. They may be a poor country, but on the musical front they're unbeatable

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Everyone who supports peace and self-determination of people should also support DPRK against US aggression.

[Ludicus]

The self proclaimed President Guaidó said all options are on the table, and also declined offers from the EU to bring both sides to the negotiating table. EU rejects use of force. Federica Mogherini, Declaration by the High Representative on behalf of the EU on the ...

The origins of the ongoing crisis in Venezuela are political and institutional, hence the solution can only be a political one. We reiterate our firm rejection and condemnation of violence and of any initiatives that can further destabilise the region.
.... It is high time to let them decide their future. We strongly renew our call for the restoration of democracy through free, transparent and credible presidential elections

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The Foreign Minister of Spain, Borrell advierte que España condenaría una

For us, the European Union, particularly Spain, military invasion is excluded, we would not support it in any case

---
Marco Rubio, "a follower of Christ, Husband ,Father,US Senator for Florida", suggested a U.S. military intervention right now, and threatens Maduro with Gaddafi fate. Scares me to think about it, Libya's current state is one of near complete anarchy.
He says,

...crimes committed today by the Maduro regime have opened the door to various potential multilateral actions not on the table just 24 hours ago.

"Not in table just 24 hours ago"....
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Why they don't listen to the reason? Venezuela news: former general warns Trump not to involve US ... - Vox

Trump says that option is back on the table.
But according to a former top US military official, it probably shouldn’t be. The Pentagon’s former top official in charge of overseeing South American operations says there is no “good reason” for the US military to intervene in Venezuela right now.
Douglas Fraser, who from June 2009 to November 2012 led US Southern Command — the part of the Defense Department responsible for overseeing Central and South America and the Caribbean — told me that US military intervention is the wrong course of action right now.
“I don’t see a good reason for the military to be employed in this situation,” he said.
...any US military action aimed at toppling Maduro would likely be met with stiff resistance from the 515,000-strong Venezuelan military.
What’s more, even if the US military did succeed in toppling Maduro, the country would almost certainly be in a much worse state after even the most limited war — and Venezuela is already suffering from a dire humanitarian catastrophe caused by an economic collapse over the past several years.
That could pressure the US military to stay in the country long enough to stabilize it — potentially leading to yet another open-ended US military commitment abroad. (See: the Iraq War and the war in Afghanistan.)
Instead, Fraser said, the US would be better off working with regional allies and partners to alleviate some of the suffering in and around Venezuela
“I don’t see the benefit of a direct military engagement"

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Atlantic's analysis went straight to the point, In Venezuela, Humanitarian Aid Is Used as a Weapon - The Atlantic

Here at the Venezuelan border, American officials have addressed the press several times in recent days, touting a project meant to challenge the rule of Venezuela’s leadership.
But it is one that has aid workers and international organizations worried.
Aid groups on the ground worry that a political operation thinly padded with humanitarian objectives could send a precarious situation down an even worse path—disastrous American efforts to intervene in Latin America from decades past serve as a reminder of how badly things can go.

Virtually all other major humanitarian organizations have kept their distance. Many aid workers were wary of talking on the record, fearing repercussions for themselves and their organization. One director of a humanitarian-assistance team told me that using what was apparently an aid mission to challenge a president stood against the principles of humanitarianism, while another said the effort was little more than an attempted overthrow of the government.

Throughout, international aid organizations including the United Nations have quietly been delivering assistance throughout Venezuela, with the tacit approval of Maduro’s regime.

Many in Latin America are also suspicious about the eventual course of any U.S. intervention in regional affairs—Washington has a long and troubled history of stepping in, with deadly and disastrous results. The examples are numerous. This move is really showing us the evolution of American intervention in Latin America,” Alan McPherson, a history professor at Temple University in Philadelphia and the author of A Short History of U.S. Interventions in Latin America and the Caribbean, told me.

For Ana Teresa Castillo, who runs an organization called Asociación Deredez that has for years helped hungry people at the Venezuela-Colombia border, the latest U.S. effort seems like a dangerous stunt.
"What we hope is that this doesn’t become a second Syria... ho is going to suffer? The civilians. The poor. Us here."

[Gallus]

Good question. Why is Maduro providing support and shelter to Hezbollah and Iran? What is Maduro's reason for turning Venezuela into a FOB for US enemies?

Maduro is sheltering Hezbollah and Iran in Venezuela? Seriously? Please tell me you don't actually believe that.

The self proclaimed President Guaidó said all options are on the table, and also declined offers from the EU to bring both sides to the negotiating table.

And that's why I don't think he deserves support. A true temporary president would try to convince Maduro to step down peacefully, not with threats of an invasion.

[Ludicus]

Right. Let's go back in time,Jul 2108
Trump repeatedly suggested Venezuela invasion, stunning top aides

Donald Trump repeatedly raised the possibility of invading Venezuela in talks with his top aides at the White House, according to a new report.
The president’s musings about the possibility of a US invasion were more extensive and persistent than that public declaration, according to the Associated Press.
The previous day Trump reportedly took his top officials by surprise in an Oval Office meeting, asking why the US could not intervene to remove the government of Nicolás Maduro on the grounds that Venezuela’s political and economic unraveling represented a threat to the region.
Quoting an unnamed senior administration official, the AP report said the suggestion stunned those present at the meeting, which included the then national security adviser, HR McMaster, and secretary of state, Rex Tillerson. Both have since left the administration.
The administration officials are said to have taken turns in trying to talk him out of the idea, pointing out that any such military action would alienate Latin American allies who had supported the US policy of punitive sanctions on the Maduro regime.
Their arguments do not seem to have dissuaded the president.

[tgoodenow]

Maduro is sheltering Hezbollah and Iran in Venezuela? Seriously? Please tell me you don't actually believe that.

Why is this hard to believe considering their links via the cocaine trade?

[Aexodus]

And that's why I don't think he deserves support. A true temporary president would try to convince Maduro to step down peacefully, not with threats of an invasion. [/QUOTE]

What’s wrong with asking for foreign intervention?

[Gallus]

What’s wrong with asking for foreign intervention?

I don't think this comment deserves a response tbh. You have never experienced war. I hope you never will. And hope Venezuela won't either.

[Prodromos]

Maduro is sheltering Hezbollah and Iran in Venezuela? Seriously? Please tell me you don't actually believe that.

It's fairly uncontroversial.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...al-empire.html

[Heathen Hammer]

Within context of current situation in Middle East, Hezbollah is a necessary evil to counter Israel and gulf theocracies (which are more terroristic then Hezbolah is anyways).
As for Maduro "hosting" them - Venezuela is a sovereign state. If Baltic states could join NATO against Russia's will, I don't see why Venezuella can't ally with foreign powers that oppose the US.

[Aexodus]

I don't think this comment deserves a response tbh. You have never experienced war. I hope you never will. And hope Venezuela won't either.

I didn’t say anything about war. When did Guaido say he wanted a war.

[Gallus]

I didn’t say anything about war. When did Guaido say he wanted a war.

What else do you think an intervention means? He's not willing to negotiate, so the only intervention he can ask for is an armed one.

[Prodromos]

As for Maduro "hosting" them - Venezuela is a sovereign state. If Baltic states could join NATO against Russia's will, I don't see why Venezuella can't ally with foreign powers that oppose the US.

They can ally any terrorist group or enemy nation they want, it's just they'll get bombed to shreds for it.

[Vanoi]

The self proclaimed President Guaidó said all options are on the table, and also declined offers from the EU to bring both sides to the negotiating table. EU rejects use of force. Federica Mogherini, Declaration by the High Representative on behalf of the EU on the ...


---
The Foreign Minister of Spain, Borrell advierte que España condenaría una

---
Marco Rubio, "a follower of Christ, Husband ,Father,US Senator for Florida", suggested a U.S. military intervention right now, and threatens Maduro with Gaddafi fate. Scares me to think about it, Libya's current state is one of near complete anarchy.
He says,

"Not in table just 24 hours ago"....
----
Why they don't listen to the reason? Venezuela news: former general warns Trump not to involve US ... - Vox


------
Atlantic's analysis went straight to the point, In Venezuela, Humanitarian Aid Is Used as a Weapon - The Atlantic

Where does it say Guaido declined offers from the EU to bring both sides to negotiate? You can't stop painting a one-sided picture. The opposition has attempted to negotiate with Maduro for years even after 2017 when he plain out usurped power from the National Assembly. Nothing came about of it.

Why dopes Maduro hold elections? That'd be the best way to solve this.

[Mayer]

What’s wrong with asking for foreign intervention?

Collaboration with a foreign invader is treason.

[Papay]

Collaboration with a foreign invader is treason.

Absolutely. Again we are fed with the same lies that we were fed when US invaded Iraq. Like it or not the regime has many followers and they will fight if someone tries to invade. Venezuela and surrounding countries will become like Middle east. I am wondering if this is the reason why Trump is in haste to build that wall

[Vanoi]

Collaboration with a foreign invader is treason.

Don't throw legal terms around. Maduro is not even legally President according to their own Constitution.