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Thread: [SUBMOD: a Political Overhaul] PIGS Alpha_02 (DeI 1.2.5) [upd: jun.09/19]

  1. #141

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    Mmh, yeah in some ways it could be done, but it would require a trigger from something else, like the type of traits you have, or just a dice roll.
    A dice roll would be better; my opinion.

  2. #142
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by leonardusius View Post
    A dice roll would be better; my opinion.
    I don't think I'll do that, it would extend the script a lot.

  3. #143
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by leonardusius View Post
    A dice roll would be better; my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    I don't think I'll do that, it would extend the script a lot.
    I also think that the dice roll will be better here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    if I follow my style there will be a lot, but I'll try to reduce my intentions for a vanilla version.
    Yes, please!

  4. #144
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Yes, please!
    yes please indeed

    I also think that the dice roll will be better here.
    I think jake orient anyway into make a dice roll factor the one that change the abillities ( canning, authority, zeal ) and all the other effects. The base age script ( example: 20-30 years old - effects: bad in admin good in battle ) will be fixed and for all generals.


    Yes, I thought it mostly for having a kid to get a little more attached to, or a problematic one that with a little care can overcame his own problems and maybe thrive. Depending on traits , especially the ones that show the character ( hestriotic, sociopath, philosophic ) was my first thought thought, but I believe would make the script much more complicated and maybe prone to problems and dont make so sense either. A dice roll seams better since that way would be the extreme case ( 1 out of 30 maybe ) that someone has natural talents ( or be completely incompetent ) and givven the opportunity could stand up despite his young age. ( or be lame despite his prime age ) . The dice roll should be on the start of the creation of the character and determ him as an exception from the main age script ( not the other parameters linked to zeal, authority, canning) that all the other ( ordinary ) generals will follow.Anyway, just elements to make back stories for the generals . Fair enough was just a suggestion . The age system that you propose here is a huge evolution from the first age script . Fixed numbers and effects are always blunt. I am really excited for this project .
    This is what i thought about it and is just a suggestion. On second thought Jake has it right and leave it ( if ever ) for another time. I am not good neither on math nor on scripting , so The script he propose is complicated allready with all te parameters and factors for a first approach .
    Last edited by nikossaiz; February 20, 2019 at 03:21 AM.

  5. #145
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Yes, I thought it mostly for having a kid to get a little more attached to, or a problematic one that with a little care can overcame his own problems and maybe thrive. Depending on traits , especially the ones that show the character ( hestriotic, sociopath, philosophic ) was my first thought thought, but I believe would make the script much more complicated and maybe prone to problems and dont make so sense either. A dice roll seams better since that way would be the extreme case ( 1 out of 30 maybe ) that someone has natural talents ( or be completely incompetent ) and givven the opportunity could stand up despite his young age. ( or be lame despite his prime age ) . The dice roll should be on the start of the creation of the character and determ him as an exception from the main age script ( not the other parameters linked to zeal, authority, canning) that all the other ( ordinary ) generals will follow.Anyway, just elements to make back stories for the generals . Fair enough was just a suggestion . The age system that you propose here is a huge evolution from the first age script . Fixed numbers and effects are always blunt. I am really excited for this project .

    Yeah, it's a good way to see a possible future implementation.
    But micromanagement has to be stopped at some point, you know.
    We'll see.
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; February 20, 2019 at 03:31 AM.

  6. #146
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    But micromanagement have to be stopped at some point, you know.
    just came the RPGu in mind


    This is what i thought about it and is just a suggestion. On second thought Jake has it right and leave it ( if ever ) for another time. I am not good neither on math nor on scripting , so The script he propose is complicated allready with all te parameters and factors for a first approach .
    i edit my last post and add this. didnt want to distact the conversation on this parameter. The extended of the age script was something that i didnt even expect so early, so we sould primary speak for the effects of it.

  7. #147

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    Yeah, it's a good way to see a possible future implementation.
    But micromanagement has to be stopped at some point, you know.
    We'll see.
    Yes, it has to be stopped but IMHO only after this ''possible implementation'. Going further is Sisyphus job without much depth.

  8. #148
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]


    Dunno.
    GEN_CND_FORCE_HAS_EFFECT_BUNDLE feature should have priority imo.

    -----------------
    This is the autistic sheet I made yesterday for dice rolls (1000). Values probaly are for age 30-39 characters.

    41 different effects, interpolated with the 7 about age
    287 possibilities...
    But 90% of probabilities will stay inside/near average values

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    <= 19 = Very Young
    20 - 29 = Young
    30 - 39 = Adult
    40 - 49 = Mature
    50 - 59 = Aged
    60 - 69 = Old
    >= 70 = Very Old

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    *** MORAL (AUT) / MENTAL (CUN) / PHYSICAL (ZEA)

    B = bad
    SB = slightly bad
    AV = average
    SG = slightly bad
    G = good

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------ PURPLE UI - 10 (1%)

    * ABILITIES: -6 (0,1%)
    1 - B mor / B men / B phy

    * ABILITIES: -5 (0,9%)
    3 - B mor / B men / SB phy
    3 - B mor / SB men / B phy
    3 - SB mor / B men / B phy

    ------------------------------------------ RED UI - 40 (4%)

    * ABILITIES: -4 (1,2%)
    4 - B mor / SB men / SB phy
    4 - SB mor / B men / SB phy
    4 - SB mor / SB men / B phy

    * ABILITIES: -3 (1%)
    10 - SB mor / SB men / SB phy

    * ABILITIES: -2 (1,8%)
    6 - SB mor / SB men / AV phy
    6 - SB mor / AV men / SB phy
    6 - AV mor / SB men / SB phy

    ------------------------------------------ ORANGE UI - 135 (15%)

    * ABILITIES: -1 (3%)
    10 - SB mor / SB men / SG phy
    10 - SB mor / SG men / SB phy
    10 - SG mor / SB men / SB phy

    * ABILITIES: -1 (12%)
    40 - SB mor / AV men / AV phy
    40 - AV mor / SB men / AV phy
    40 - AV mor / AV men / SB phy

    ------------------------------------------ WHITE UI - 600 (60%)

    * ABILITIES: 0 (13,5%)
    45 - SB mor / AV men / SG phy
    45 - SB mor / SG men / AV phy
    45 - AV mor / SB men / SG phy

    * ABILITIES: 0 (33%)
    330 - AV mor / AV men / AV phy

    * ABILITIES: 0 (13,5%)
    45 - AV mor / SG men / SB phy
    45 - SG mor / AV men / SB phy
    45 - SG mor / SB men / AV phy

    ------------------------------------------ YELLOW UI - 135 (15%)

    * ABILITIES: 1 (12%)
    40 - SG mor / AV men / AV phy
    40 - AV mor / SG men / AV phy
    40 - AV mor / AV men / SG phy

    * ABILITIES: 1 (3%)
    10 - SG mor / SG men / SB phy
    10 - SG mor / SB men / SG phy
    10 - SB mor / SG men / SG phy

    ------------------------------------------ GREEN UI - 40 (4%)

    * ABILITIES: 2 (1,8%)
    6 - SG mor / SG men / AV phy
    6 - SG mor / AV men / SG phy
    6 - AV mor / SG men / SG phy

    * ABILITIES: 3 (1%)
    10 - SG mor / SG men / SG phy

    * ABILITIES: 4 (1,2%)
    4 - G mor / SG men / SG phy
    4 - SG mor / G men / SG phy
    4 - SG mor / SG men / G phy

    ------------------------------------------ BLUE UI - 10 (1%)

    * ABILITIES: 5 (0,9%)
    3 - G mor / G men / SG phy
    3 - G mor / SG men / G phy
    3 - SG mor / G men / G phy

    * ABILITIES: 6 (0,1%)
    1 - G mor / G men / G phy

    Last edited by Jake Armitage; February 20, 2019 at 05:58 AM.

  9. #149
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    these are the possibillities from bad to good and how many points of authority-zeal-canning a genreral will loose/gain right? sounds very legit the way you arrenge the possibilities. Have you thought about the other side effects? i am very idrigued of what you might think about them. Something else. Coming from medieval and the the order of the public order UI faces, may i suggest something ? UI from bad to Good . - RED - PURPLE ( OR SUBTLE RED ) - ORANGE - WHITE - BLUE - YELLOW - GREEN.

  10. #150

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post

    Dunno.
    GEN_CND_FORCE_HAS_EFFECT_BUNDLE feature should have priority imo.

    -----------------
    This is the autistic sheet I made yesterday for dice rolls (1000). Values probaly are for age 30-39 characters.

    41 different effects, interpolated with the 7 about age
    287 possibilities...
    But 90% of probabilities will stay inside/near average values
    Wow ! Awesome work. Go ahead with this. I think it's very legit that way.

  11. #151
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by nikossaiz View Post
    Coming from medieval and the the order of the public order UI faces, may i suggest something ? UI from bad to Good . - RED - PURPLE ( OR SUBTLE RED ) - ORANGE - WHITE - BLUE - YELLOW - GREEN.
    Nope, light spectrum works in the other way, google it. Or better, duckgo it - https://duckduckgo.com/
    I've just put white between yellow and orange.
    I would never betray my quantistic friends.

  12. #152
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Never heard of it. searching machine without cookies.., but then how they...

    yes, yes, i know a little things about light, mostly its use to be honest ( i'm a photografer ) but i was talking mostly the meaning that the colours have on our and especially my subconcious. Traffic lights, medieval 2 total war public order faces...

    ok, it just happens to see that very good loyalty in PIGs is also represented by blue as a UI colour, so yeah, i see you respect patterns.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails aa.jpg   bb.jpg  
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; February 26, 2019 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Merged posts.

  13. #153
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Yes there will be some effects I'm doing and I'll do which will have this pattern, so it will be easier to notice changes.



    NEWS!
    - General's Status -
    this feature will be added in the upcoming PIGS_Alpha_01


    Some news from the General's Status feature

    As you'll notice I've put many effects, even if Selukos and nikossaiz preferred less.
    I didn't want to leave behind any related feature.

    So, every turn every deployed general will be affected by a 1000 dice roll, then depending on the roll (90% probabilities will stay inside"average ranges") and the general's age range, specific values for every effect will be applied.
    Every age range has its features (adolescent will always tend to have penalties, due to inexperience, 30-40 ages tend to have positive values).

    This is how I divided factors:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    AGE Ranges:

    AGE: <= 19 = Adolescent
    AGE: 20 - 29 = Young
    AGE: 30 - 39 = Adult
    AGE: 40 - 49 = Mature
    AGE: 50 - 59 = Aged
    AGE: >= 60 = Old

    -----------

    MORAL (Authority) / MENTAL (Cunning) / PHYSICAL (Zeal):

    Bad (-2 to related ability)
    Slightly Bad (-1 to related ability)
    Average (0 to related ability)
    Slightly Good (+1 to related ability)
    Good (+2 to related ability)

    -----------

    Besides the aut/cun/zea changes, there will be 5 effects for every feature (I've used low values, didn't want to affect the game too much)

    MORAL (AUT):
    - Province PO
    - Province Banditry
    - Province Culture
    - Unit Morale
    - General Gravitas

    MENTAL (CUN):
    - Province Gdp
    - Province Growth
    - Province Building cost
    - Unit Recruitment Cost
    - Unit Upkeep Cost

    PHYSICAL (ZEA):
    - Army Attack
    - Army Defense
    - Army Strat Movement
    - Army Experience %
    - Army Replenishment
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; March 13, 2019 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Merged posts.

  14. #154

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Awesome!

  15. #155
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Damn jake, these are the most beautiful, in light spectrum order,square shaped , pop Obama style ui icons i ever seen the only part I would like to suggest, or better discuss about, are the arregment of the effects for every feature. the army replenishment, you clearly put it under the last category because of the zeal, and is army related, but since zeal is attached to physical abilities seems a little of. Same as generals gravitas, would put it under the mental category, since an ill mind general would clearly lose personality weight. And maybe trade it with the unit upkeep costs effect . since moral category affects unit moral as well, let's say more money (upkeep ) will be needed to persuade a unit to stay and fight. Again, Great work us always ! And I'm sure that seleukos will agree here, when you match quantity with this kind of quality is becoming something like your trademark and is hard for us to want less ( except maybe RPGu, RPGu as it is is still a little more )
    Last edited by nikossaiz; February 24, 2019 at 01:09 AM.

  16. #156

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Merveillous ! Waiting for alpha.

  17. #157
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    @nikos:
    It is quite tricky to change those things, let's stay as I planned for now, let's test how it works and then let's do some changes when we'll have some experience about the system.
    Step by step, as always, is the best way to have a better overall balance.

  18. #158
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    It is quite tricky to change those things, let's stay as I planned for now, let's test how it works and then let's do some changes when we'll have some experience about the system.
    Step by step, as always, is the best way to have a better overall balance.
    For sure Jake, You know the procedure better!

  19. #159
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]



    NEWS!
    - Policy Outcomes -
    this feature will be added in the upcoming PIGS_Alpha_01



    While "General's Status" has given a randomness/variability to characters' performance, now it's time to do the "same" with the political cycle, which will be called "Policy Outcomes" .
    I've done some custom incidents (25 in total) triggering themselves (one per time) every 8 turns (starting at first spring - 2nd turn - and then repeating every alternate spring, one not, one yes) to resemble the results of policies adopted.
    It's a sort of random outcome about the political choices taken the last 8 turns, where one of the protagonists may have taken the centre stage.

    Incidents are affected by the same main protagonists of intrigues' results:

    - Population
    - Military
    - Ruling Party
    - Others Parties


    Protagonists will affect 2 types of policies:

    - DOMESTIC POLICY
    - FOREIGN POLICY


    So, depending on a weighted dice roll, you can have various results, from a double Balanced outcome (no change) to both policies affected by one of those protagonists.
    Don't check the values, it's quite difficult to explain why they have been chosen this way.
    As usual there are some math functions behind these choices.
    As usual values are low, so the game won't be largely touched.
    Effects are faction wide and last 8 turns (2 years).

    These are the effects involved (every protagonist will have values for all effects, through the usual G/SG/AV/SB/B system):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    G: Good values
    SG: Slightly Good values
    AV: no value
    SB: Slightly Bad values
    B: Bad values

    *** DOMESTIC POLICY

    - Population
    G) PO, Banditry (rom_building_gdp_mod_agriculture_all)
    SG) Loyalty, Events Chances (rom_any_corruption_mod_global)
    SB) Power, Political Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_subsistence)
    B) Recruitment Cost, Upkeep Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_industry)

    - Military
    G) Recruitment Cost, Upkeep Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_industry)
    SG) Power, Political Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_subsistence)
    SB) Loyalty, Events Chances (rom_any_corruption_mod_global)
    B) PO, Banditry (rom_building_gdp_mod_agriculture_all)

    - Ruling Party
    G) Power, Political Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_subsistence)
    SG) PO, Banditry (rom_building_gdp_mod_agriculture_all)
    SB) Recruitment Cost, Upkeep Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_industry)
    B) Loyalty, Events Chances (rom_any_corruption_mod_global)

    - Others Parties
    G) Loyalty, Events Chances (rom_any_corruption_mod_global)
    SG) Recruitment Cost, Upkeep Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_industry)
    SB) PO, Banditry (rom_building_gdp_mod_agriculture_all)
    B) Power, Political Cost (rom_building_gdp_mod_subsistence)

    *** FOREIGN POLICY

    - Population

    G) Growth (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_entertainment)
    SG) Diplomacy (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_sea)
    SB) Research (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_learning)
    B) Culture (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_local)

    - Military
    G) Culture (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_local)
    SG) Growth (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_entertainment)
    SB) Diplomacy (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_sea)
    B) Research (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_learning)

    - Ruling Party
    G) Research (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_learning)
    SG) Culture (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_local)
    SB) Growth (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_entertainment)
    B) Diplomacy (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_sea)

    - Others Parties
    G) Diplomacy (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_sea)
    SG) Research (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_learning)
    SB) Culture (rom_building_gdp_mod_trade_local)
    B) Growth (rom_building_gdp_mod_culture_entertainment)
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; March 13, 2019 at 11:23 AM.

  20. #160

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Great !

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