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Thread: [SUBMOD: a Political Overhaul] PIGS Alpha_02 (DeI 1.2.5) [upd: jun.09/19]

  1. #121
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Jake, since you have made, outside your major concepts, many little usefull packs in the form of submods, like the one for limited plague or the one with the ages effect that can be used along with the base dei, have you consider to make a thread with all of them in order to be easier for the players to find either solutions or extra flavor for their campaigns?

    I play with scipios dei realism. In pigs description you say that is compatible with pigs.so the intrigue costs from pigs are automatically updated to match the level of the realism economy system ? Or are fixed by scipios mod?
    Last edited by nikossaiz; February 15, 2019 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Didn't read the previous post and words Unrelated with the thread

  2. #122
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    PIGS:
    I don't know how scipio's mod work.
    I don't know if PIGS actually works well with AE either.
    One thing is being compatible, another one is being balanced for.
    I didn't even talk to Dresden about PIGS nor discuss with him how to eventually mod an official DeI's version.
    It's to early for this now, and it's up to Dresden only to decide it or not.

    As I said I can't stay behind every other submod 'cause:
    1) I don't know how they specifically work.
    2) They are being constantly updated so I would have to keep their pace which will make me going crazy

    Any submodder can take the work I've done, check it, mod it, put inside their packs or do external packs for their mods, into this thread or where they want.
    Just report to me if they added or seriously changed some feature as a modding exchange which may lead to a better PIGS version

    usefull packs in the form of submods:
    Most of these submods are a sort of cheating packs, I do them when I see people just willing to erase/lower some features 'cause they want to have fun with their current campaign.
    I wouldn't like to do a submod collection about "cheating packs", 'cause I'm aginst it and 'cause it will let people playing with cheated DeI's versions, and that's not correct regarding DeI's team work.
    One thing are overhauls (Testudo, scipio's, AE...), another one are specific "cheating packs".

  3. #123
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Ok jake, because you mention scipios realism among the compatible mods on pigs description I thought maybe the intrigue prices alter together. I play with the scipio as an economy base mod and this mostly for testing its behaviour. The philosophy of its economy is like kams AE, way more money, way more costs. So, think that as a seleucid empire I have around 20 - 30 k every turn. A typical pigs intrigue can cost from 2000 to 8000. So it is fair enough, but with base unmoded dei economy I imagine would be a little bit more on the expensive side.

    So the plague pack isn't part of the testudo mod With a little lower than deis plague possibility? Anyway, I mention it only for the convenience of the players and the easy Forums navigation!

    Again, I'm having a marvelous time with pigs and the general age adittion. Aside the script for the age mod for the ai generals, a more building slot mod is the only thing that i will like to see for a Rome 2 completely new experience !

  4. #124
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    RAISE COST:
    Try this pack, should work as a multiplier for political costs through campaign difficulty effects.
    I've set it to be +400% (so, quadrupled). Change the number if the multipler is too low or too high.
    You can change multipliers for difficulty levelsif you want:

    -3: legendary
    -2 : very hard
    -1: hard
    0: normal
    1: easy

    PLAGUE:
    Yes, it's inside Testudo, but Testudo has different mechanics regarding PO and squalor, that's why I lowered DeI's values. It was too difficult.

    more building slot:
    Absolutely, even if it would need a lot of work (besides what Daruwind and emerald are doing) to have a balanced pack, actually
    Also, wait for Aequilibrium Fidei and others virtual point packs I'm planning with ivanpera. You will like them a lot.

    PIGS:
    I'm glad, seems latest version is fully playable
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; March 13, 2019 at 12:22 PM.

  5. #125
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    @ everyone:
    How is it going with intrigues' costs?
    I tweaked them a little, both through variables and related incident payloads.
    Too high, too low? How is it?
    Thx
    Hey Jake,

    So, using the Dardo's current version of AE I find the costs of the political intrigues pretty much balanced with the scale of AE economy.

    The blue intrigues such 'gather political support' or 'spread political support' are slightly over 3000, which is perfectly fine, I think.

    The civil and military admin are both over 8000, which is a bit bigger investment that I haven't been able to afford much within the first 35 turns. I've used civil admin around 2-3 times. As the campaign goes on and the income grows larger, it will be certainly more affordable to use these two options.

    The marriage, on the other hand, is a bit too expensive at over 10k. I haven't married a single character thus far, so I would suggest to cut it down by half.

    I haven't even checked if these numbers are identical without AE, but I guess they are since I've loaded PIGS ahead of AE. Should that be the case then I think the prices would be overall too high for the standard DeI where in the early game you operate mostly in hundreds rather than thousands.

  6. #126
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Dardo said AE already contains an effect modifier to multiply political costs.
    Those costs you mention are already modded by AE, it seems.
    Good to know

    About normal PIGS version they are surley lower, love marriage should be around 1500, administrations something less than 2000.
    Campaign variables modifiers have a vanilla function depending on emperium level and character ambition, mostly.
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; February 16, 2019 at 03:34 PM.

  7. #127
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    I see. Yeah, regarding this marriage intrigue it seems that it was actually AE that raised it up a bit too much.

    Other than that the costs look well-balanced to me.

  8. #128
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    While waiting for DeI 1.2.4b I had this idea, regarding the age script. I would like to hear a couple of opinions before doing this.

    1) I'm talking about an army effect, so for deployed generals only (I don't really want to mod DeI' s trait)

    2) So, every deployed general will have some effects depending on his age (with 10 years pace). You know, teens aren't good for administration nor war actually, while old people could be good for administration but not for war (best age pace should be between 30 and 40 imo, not young nor old for ancient times too).

    3) Apart from age there will be other 3 features (a sort of various conditions for every turn). These features will be triggered through a dice roll, to symbolize things you cannot control:
    - "Moral" condition (linked to authority): representing character's mood, so if he's eager or depressed
    - "Mental" condition (linked to cunning): representing character's lucidity of thoughts , so if he's brillant or confused
    - "Physical" condition (linked to zeal): representing character's physical conditions, so if he's healthy or ill

    There will be 5 levels for every condition. Effects' values will be really low, I don't want them to be incisive, they are just for having some more flavour:
    - Bad
    - Slightly Bad
    - Average
    - Slightly Good
    - Good

    4) So, every turn, the script will give you age (10 year paced, with some basic effects depending on range) and different levels for every condition (notice that Bad and Good can't appear together, even for different conditions).
    To make an example, a character could have this parameters:
    - age (30-39)
    - "Moral": Slightly Bad
    - "Mental": Average
    - "Physical" Slightly Good

    5) Final effect (all these things will be contained into 1 effect only, so we won't spam UIs) is an interpolation between all 4 parameters.
    Dice rolls will be based on a 300 dice and will have a high chances to be average, some possibilitles to be Slightly B/G and very low to be B/G.
    Also, every age pace will have custom ranges for Dice rolls (so, old people will have higher chances for being into Bad conditions for "Physical" and "Mental", while teens or (20-29) can have better possibilities to have good "Physical" condition. Just some examples here).

    ----------

    This is quite easy to do via script, even if I'll have to insert a lot of possibilities. I' don't really think it will extend much the waiting duration between turns, a couple of secs max, more for advanced campaigns.

    Also, there is (maybe, didn't check this yet and there is no example into vanilla) the possibility to link dilemmas/incidents through a GEN_CND_FORCE_HAS_EFFECT_BUNDLE.
    So, we could link custom dilemmas/incidents depending on the dice rolled effect. Something like "heal yourself" if you have Bad "Physical" condition, or go to an "hunting trip" if you have Good "Physical" condition
    Let me know what you think.
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; February 19, 2019 at 12:15 PM.

  9. #129
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Jake, incredible. Just incredible!!! I wouldnt think anyhting better. MAybe ( well i just think of something make a possibility , a really slight one for an exepsion if someone is teen will always be bad in something. Once in a while a teen can thrive, something like a prodigy. still, if the effects are low will be only for the flavor but would be fun to have a teen with great tallents depsite his young age and i think that many of us gonna love and protect this lad and maybe see him crowned a king someday And something else. Make it for AI also.... if is possible and not time concuming at least as a submod.

  10. #130

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    I have used the last version of Pigs for a week, as i have seen, it worked very well till now and made my last the campaign more immersive, just love it. Glad to see new ideas for this mod keep coming from you, Jake!

  11. #131
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    oh, just to see if i understand it correctly. when you say the factors will be linked to authority, zeal, canning, you mean UI wise, when you hover your mouse on it or it will be a altering factor the number of zeal, canning and authority of every general?

  12. #132
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    @auchan:
    Good!

    @nikos:
    The second one, Slightly B/G will give +/- 1 to linked ability, B/G will give +/- 2.

    Since I erased all the intrigues increasing/decreasing abilities permanently (and putting turn limited tweaks through APPOINT FIELD OFFICER,APPOINT FIELD COMMANDER and FAMILY CLIENTELISM), thought to change it also through this system.
    It's no more simplified as per vanilla's where you just pay money and
    increase/decrease it, now abilities are more fluctuant and pemanently increasable through level up only. That's also why I decreased deltas for enacting intrigues from 2 to 1.

    If that thing about
    GEN_CND_FORCE_HAS_EFFECT_BUNDLE works, I could set up some dilemmas where you can pay to get permanent changes.


  13. #133
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    The second one, Slightly B/G will give +/- 1 to linked ability, B/G will give +/- 2.
    ok! i firstly thought the other way around, ability will affect the possibility of B/G


    make a possibility , a really slight one for an exepsion if someone is teen will always be bad in something. Once in a while a teen can thrive, something like a prodigy. still, if the effects are low will be only for the flavor but would be fun to have a teen with great tallents depsite his young age and i think that many of us gonna love and protect this lad and maybe see him crowned a king someday And something else. Make it for AI also.... if is possible and not time concuming at least as a submod.
    would be miningfull or even possible an exeption for a random character? what do you thing?

  14. #134
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    1) you can't do that, you can't track abilities via script

    2) explain, please, can't get what you mean

  15. #135
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Well my last post was indeed a failure to communicate in proper English what I ment was this
    every deployed general will have some effects depending on his age (with 10 years pace). You know, teens aren't good for administration nor war actually, while old people could be good for administration but not for war (best age pace should be between 30 and 40 imo, not young nor old for ancient times too)
    is it possible for some generals to be an exception to this ? For example. 1 every 20 generals to be young but also good for administration or good at war, something like a prodigy. A new Alexander ( ok, I am exaggerating a little but you get my point). The other factors would be the same, just the age effect to be in all ages good . Or bad, being for example lame from birth. I hope I make my thought clearer now. And a request. Could you please if it isn't trouble, make a version that includes the ai generals also ? Ps I agree about the age places, 30,40 should be the prime. In your current testudo age script the pace is every 5 year ?
    Last edited by nikossaiz; February 20, 2019 at 02:40 AM.

  16. #136
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Mmh, yeah in some ways it could be done, but it would require a trigger from something else, like the type of traits you have, or just a dice roll.
    Also I don't like to have stars nor ... you know, humans have always been human, it's the context that makes someone a star or a (besides extreme cases), not the contrary.
    Don't think I'll do that, surely not now. But I'll keep the concept in mind for "maybe to do" features.

    AI: really don't know, I'll try to do that but it's not a "priority"

    Yes, testudo had 5 years, but testudo is mostly meant for 12 tpy (60 turns for every 5 years).

  17. #137
    nikossaiz's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Yes, I thought it mostly for having a kid to get a little more attached to, or a problematic one that with a little care can overcame his own problems and maybe thrive. Depending on traits , especially the ones that show the character ( hestriotic, sociopath, philosophic ) was my first thought thought, but I believe would make the script much more complicated and maybe prone to problems and dont make so sense either. A dice roll seams better since that way would be the extreme case ( 1 out of 30 maybe ) that someone has natural talents ( or be completely incompetent ) and givven the opportunity could stand up despite his young age. ( or be lame despite his prime age ) . The dice roll should be on the start of the creation of the character and determ him as an exception from the main age script ( not the other parameters linked to zeal, authority, canning) that all the other ( ordinary ) generals will follow.Anyway, just elements to make back stories for the generals . Fair enough was just a suggestion . The age system that you propose here is a huge evolution from the first age script . Fixed numbers and effects are always blunt. I am really excited for this project .
    Last edited by nikossaiz; February 20, 2019 at 01:20 AM. Reason: Add a few more things

  18. #138
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    While waiting for DeI 1.2.4b I had this idea, regarding the age script. I would like to hear a couple of opinions before doing this...
    I very much like the idea! It reminds me of Roma Surrectum mod where each character would have a trait linked to his age group that was associated with a number of effects typical of that age.

    I'm also glad to hear that you intend to keep it relatively simple and transparent.

    Perhaps no need for any dillemas/incidents linked to this feature atm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    @nikos:
    The second one, Slightly B/G will give +/- 1 to linked ability, B/G will give +/- 2.
    Do I understand this correctly that the only effects linked to this feature will be either postive or negative authority/cunning/zeal? No other effects involved?

    I'm totally fine with the randomness here. After all, everyone can have either a bad or a good day regardless of his mental capabilties and physical condition.

    A skilled general can get a food poisoning while on the campaign what will temporarily impair his abilites. That's perfectly possible and history is full of such cases.
    Last edited by ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~; February 20, 2019 at 03:40 AM.

  19. #139

    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage;15747040[B
    ][/B]
    If that thing about GEN_CND_FORCE_HAS_EFFECT_BUNDLE works, I could set up some dilemmas where you can pay to get permanent changes.
    You could do this, it increases the playability and the immersion introduced by PIGS.

  20. #140
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod: a political overhaul] PIGS Beta_03 (for DeI 1.2.4a) - TESTERS NEEDED! [upd. feb.09/19]

    @seleukos/leo
    Yes I'll develop dil/inc feature maybe one day.
    If it works it will be really cool imo.
    And it's a way to avoid redoing vanilla events, since we'll have more of them, directed to characters and specifically triggered.

    @seleukos
    No, not only abilities, there will be other effects for sure, if I follow my style there will be a lot, but I'll try to reduce my intentions for a vanilla version.
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; February 20, 2019 at 03:48 AM.

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