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Thread: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

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    Default Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    “I am indebted to my father for living, but to my teacher for living well.” –Alexander the Great

    Alexander is generally considered one of the most accomplished and influential military leaders of all-time, but when balancing the realm of his feats and accomplishments its clear he had a ton of help:



    Who then among Alexander's many contemporaries (rivals, mentors, or companions) deserves to be recognized alongside Alexander?

    Note: this is not a thread about who primarily deserves credit for Alexander's success (lady luck deserves first place for that) but rather who might have taught or influenced Alexander the most.

    Which person had the greatest impact on Alexander?




    Alcibiades being taught by Socrates

    Some nominations:

    Philip II - The most obvious choice. No other person can claim more credit for Alexander's generalship, education, military training, political upbringing, and art of war then Philip II of Macedon (creating an army and phalanx system that Alexander used to conqueror the known world -in this discussion- doesn't count). Philip was also the one who introduced Alexander to Aristotle at age 13, army life at age 16, made Alexander his regent (also age 16), and appointed Alexander a major command post at the Battle of Chaeronea (age 18). Philip again, was also the one who shared with Alexander the original battle plans for the conquest of Persia.

    If the criteria of a great teacher then is providing ample opportunities for the student to learn, participate, and observe, then Philip II wins first place. Where Philip falls short of course are the marriage disputes, jealousy, and "daddy issues," (at one point leading to Alexander's exile) and the fact that Philip's sudden assassination (both a curse and boon for Alexander) created loyalty issues with Philip's old guard. Alexander would struggle for their trust and support for much of his adult life (though the unending desire to escape his father's shadow and prove his worth time and again could also be used as an influence argument in Philip's favor).

    Olympias - The next obvious choice. Alexander, according to some historians, was spurred on by his mother. From his mother he gained a fiery and violent temper, as well as an inclination towards rage, privilege, and entitlement. It was Olympias after all who first whispered into Alexander's ear that he was divine and that he should be king over his petulant father. To Olympias's credit she also taught Alexander to disregard most material possessions (through Leonidas's mentorship and religious piety) and how to use back-channel manipulation for political gain. Nobody assisted Alexander's rise to the throne more than Olympias, though her unconfirmed role in Philip's assassination of course, does not count as influence in this discussion.

    Aristotle - One of the most brilliant minds who has ever lived and Alexander's teacher for three years. Would have taught philosophy, literature, rhetoric, geography, mathematics, geometry, and basic zoology; the equivalent of a privileged education in Greece. Beyond that however, it is highly speculative whether Alexander (a man of action) was really all that influenced by the great thinker.

    Achilles - Alexander's favorite superhero. To Achilles, Alexander owes his personality as well as his disregard for physical danger, his love of risk taking, single-combat, blood and battle, and life or death defying courage. Achilles influence on Alexander is all the more impressive considering (according to Arrian) that Alexander was not of a very impressive build and probably not that athletic. No doubt though, Alexander still deserves credit for being one of the most courageous (or insane) warrior kings to have ever lived.

    Darius III- Darius was Alexander's greatest rival who held the title "king of kings" and most commanding man in the world before Alexander. If you believe then that Alexander was motivated by glory (which his conquests and adoption of Darius's family, titles, and kingdom as his own seems to suggest) then Darius's mere existence had a huge impact on Alexander. It was Alexander after all, who desperately wanted to be Darius (king of kings), and hurriedly chased after him in every battle.

    Cyrus the Great - If you believe Alexander was a benevolent ruler (not sure if he was really a peacemaker in my opinion, but to each his own), then you may point to Cyrus the Great as having had the greatest impact on Alexander. Before great kings bowed at the tomb of Alexander, they bowed before the tomb of Cyrus the Great, the greatest conquer and nation builder the world had ever known. Alexander did of course visit the tomb of Cyrus the Great where some say his cultural fusion plans were an attempt to relive and outdo the other's legacy.

    Hephaestion - The most interesting pick and Alexander's closest friend. The only person Alexander may have considered an equal. At his death, Alexander insisted that Hephestion be worshiped as a god, where he also became manically depressed at his young friend's passing. Unfortunately however, most historical evidence shows that Hepahestion may have mostly lacked in any kind of obvious military skill or political talent. His role again seems to be more of a friend and companion than any kind of political adviser and second in command.

    The Oracle at Swia - Famously proclaimed and confirmed that Alexander was the Son of Zeus. Obviously had a huge impact on Alexander's life.

    Diogenes - The legendary stoic philosopher from Athens, and maybe the only person ever to b-slap Alexander philosophically and then live to tell about it. Legend has it that Alexander offered to Diogenes the entire world and as a gift anything he could possibly want, but to Diogenes' credit he appropriately told the boy king to go **** himself. Stunned by the philosopher's dignity and self worth, Alexander is quoted as saying he wishes he were more like Diogenes than anyone else who had ever lived. Alexander's constant whining and thin skin however, suggests that maybe Alexander never learned a thing from Diogenes.

    Demosthenes and The Resistance Party - Demosthenes and Greek detractors were a constant thorn in young Alexander's side. If you believe then that Alexander had thin skin to the extreme, then his struggle to win a good name in Athens -and prove he was Greek- was a huge motivating force in his life.

    The Army and General Staff - A point that is gaining more attention from historians and leadership experts. The argument is Alexander needed the army more than the army ever needed him (which could go either way; for example, what happens to the Macedonian army if Alexander dies in battle?) and the theory that his generals were constantly scheming to usurp him. In order then to maintain the army's loyalty and support, Alexander had to constantly lead by heroic selfless example. He had to constantly prove that he was the fittest and the bravest or somebody else from the Macedonian warrior culture would mutiny and take his place. Alexander therefore, was a slave to the ambitions of his generals and the moral needs of his army, constantly at war with both. In the end, Alexander pushed the army as far as it could go and may have exhausted himself in the process.

    No one - The maverick pick. Alexander was a historical outlier. An adolescent, angry, genocidal, warmongering megalomaniac and momma's boy who should give all the credit in the world to his incredible good fortune. No alcoholic drunk, reckless gambler, or psychopathic prince has ever benefited so much from outcome bias. His accomplishments were either borrowed from others or were works of luck. He is more myth than man, but as a boy king he listened and looked up to no one. He truly believed he was a god and could do no wrong. War and glory (to include imposing his will on others) were thus his playground and his true legacy is that of an ego-centric narcissistic monster given way too much power to play with.

    All the above - Another solid pick. Alexander is a complicated figure and it probably does no good to try and psycho analyze him. However, historians should still speculate whether somebody else without Alexander's unique tutelage and upbringing could also have conquered Persia. This is important when validating (or disproving) the Great Man Theory and its impact on history.

    Philip II, Antiperer, and Antiperer's son, Cassander, bring this last point into debate.
    Last edited by Dick Cheney.; July 25, 2021 at 05:48 PM.
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    Nekro_TWH's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    For me Aristle has the biggest impact on Alexander's intellectual development but not his character entirely.A great mind a great tactician and general but not good a governor or state leader.

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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    For me, I think it has to be either Philip or No one. And I was actually sort of hesitant publishing this cause I don't think psycho analyzing somebody's character or genius is very scholarly. However, there is enough interest in Alexander's biography from historians and past military leaders that his persona is still looked to as a model for leadership and desirable traits. Its interesting then to see where those traits might have come from, and the lengthy list I provided does give some credibility to Alexander's unique background and education.
    Last edited by Dick Cheney.; January 22, 2019 at 05:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    I will go with: Life! The greatest teacher of them all! Followed by Phillip and then Aristotle. As of Olympia I think her role is exaggerated by both her rivals and allies to a great degree... some times for the same thing viewed as good or bad (Say, political acumen).
    Last edited by alhoon; January 22, 2019 at 04:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    No one - The maverick pick. Alexander was a historical outlier. An adolescent, angry, genocidal, war-mongering megalomaniac and momma's boy who should give all the credit in the world to his incredible good fortunate. No alcoholic drunk, reckless gambler, or psychopathic prince has ever benefited so much from outcome bias. His accomplishments were either borrowed from the works of others or works of luck. He is more myth than man, but as a boy king he listened and looked up to no one. He truly believed he was a god and could do no wrong. War and glory (to include imposing his will on others) were thus his playground and his true legacy is that of an ego-centric narcissistic monster given way too much power to play with.


    This one for me. His killing of Kleitos because of his critic, the introducion of the proskynese by force ( page conspiracy), the punitive march through the gedrosian desert after the justified mutiny at the Hyphasis, which killed thousands of his warriors, show no sign of philosophy by Aristotles or political pragmatism of his father Philip, but instead his megalomaniac hybris. He would have set the western world in fire too, till he would have been finally beaten with his army by his hybris.
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    It's obviously Philip.

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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    I imagine Olympias and her maids taught Alexander to speak, toilet trained him and so on. Narrowly speaking she probably taught him the most as her husband was often on campaign as Alexander grew up.

    However to answer the second question Who then among Alexander's many contemporaries (rivals, mentors, or companions) deserves to be recognized alongside Alexander?

    No Phillip, no Alexander. The Makedonian state was not known for its stability or ability to project power before Phillip: from his reign onward it was a mostly stable regional power able to project militarily into neighbouring states.

    Phillip took a rattled, divided semi-tribal kingdom half full of Illyrian invaders, with a history of being a cats paw for Persia, Athens or whoever had the money to jerk their chain and turned it right around. He almost completely pacified the nobility (Alexander managed to safely inherit the throne from his father despite the assassination, almost unheard of before Phillip's time), built up the economy, formed a solid infantry, expanded and solidified the list of allies and turned a region better known for internecine strife into a deadly war machine able to subdue nearly all Hellas and face Persia.

    If Alexander inherited what Phillip had I think he would have been dead within a year. His brilliance was augmented by the stable powerful machine he inherited, but he was not such a builder. Alexander's far larger realm barely survived his death in fact, and in law it fell apart within two decades. Phillip gave the name Makedon to much of Thrakia and Paeonoia, and those areas still bear the name he gave them.

    We have seen other relentless genius generals like Hannibal and Pyrrhus, and what happens to them when they lack the superb resource base the Phillip built for Alexander. Phillip could not do what Alexander did, his horizon was shorter and his sense of humanity did not allow such hubris, but by the same token Alexander could not do what Phillip did. Just as Carnot and Gribeauval laid the foundations for Napoleon's success, Phillip was Alexander's "Organiser of Victory".
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Guys, do you realize his teacher was Aristotle? Holy crap! Did you understand? Aristotle Himself! How can you ask which was his greatest teacher?

    Has therefore our consciousness of the foundations on which our own Western civilization is based, fallen so low?

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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Guys, do you realize his teacher was Aristotle? Holy crap! Did you understand? Aristotle Himself! How can you ask which was his greatest teacher?

    Has therefore our consciousness of the foundations on which our own Western civilization is based, fallen so low?
    ..but the question was not "which of his teachers was the most overhyped philosopher?"

    Alexander was famous for bold cavalry charges, heavy drinking and poor succession planning. None of these can be attributed to the Stageirite.

    Philosophy is a fascinating subject but I don't think its central to our civilisation. Like art philosophy seems to have been the pastime of wealthy urban Hellenes. I don't think artists "invent" much, the reflect current thinking and taste. I think Philosophers are the same, they create mind games for rich pederasts to amuse one another at dinner parties.

    Hellenic philosophy of course included the seeds of other disciplines and to that extent was important. Socrates furthered rhetoric (not philosophy) with his Socratic method (a significant technical development), but his chief influence was to justify stupid murderous oligarchs.

    Scientifically Plato and Aristotle are dead ends, and Platonic contempt for the real over the imagined amounts to a pernicious waste of time: I think the platonic encounter with Christianity contaminated the Jesus movement and transformed it from a vital real world reform movement into a hazy otherworldly "none of this matters" opiate of the people. The encounter of Aristotle and Christianity in the form of Thomism bled the last humanity from the church and made theology mere logic chopping of the most futile sort.

    Pythagorus developed a corpus of useful mathematics and to my mind is the most important ancient philosopher besides perhaps Buddha, Thales and Heraclitus imagined possibilities which late research confirms: they are enablers, not inventors.

    Music art and philosophy are the icing on the cake of our civilisation. I think our technical, political and social accomplishments are our true glory. Greek Philosophy is brilliant because much of it was more and better than mere word games, that is, not philosophy.

    Aristotle may have given Alexander some nice mind games to play at dinner but it didn't stop him from imagining he was a god, or from getting drunk, or from failing to secure his dynasty. these are also his father's and mother's failures, but they did equip him with cunning and valour., What exactly did Aristotle teach Alexander again?
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Guys, do you realize his teacher was Aristotle? Holy crap! Did you understand? Aristotle Himself! How can you ask which was his greatest teacher?

    Has therefore our consciousness of the foundations on which our own Western civilization is based, fallen so low?
    Who also taught him xenophobe.
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    ..but the question was not "which of his teachers was the most overhyped philosopher?"

    Alexander was famous for bold cavalry charges, heavy drinking and poor succession planning. None of these can be attributed to the Stageirite.

    Philosophy is a fascinating subject but I don't think its central to our civilisation. Like art philosophy seems to have been the pastime of wealthy urban Hellenes. I don't think artists "invent" much, the reflect current thinking and taste. I think Philosophers are the same, they create mind games for rich pederasts to amuse one another at dinner parties.

    Hellenic philosophy of course included the seeds of other disciplines and to that extent was important. Socrates furthered rhetoric (not philosophy) with his Socratic method (a significant technical development), but his chief influence was to justify stupid murderous oligarchs.

    Scientifically Plato and Aristotle are dead ends, and Platonic contempt for the real over the imagined amounts to a pernicious waste of time: I think the platonic encounter with Christianity contaminated the Jesus movement and transformed it from a vital real world reform movement into a hazy otherworldly "none of this matters" opiate of the people. The encounter of Aristotle and Christianity in the form of Thomism bled the last humanity from the church and made theology mere logic chopping of the most futile sort.

    Pythagorus developed a corpus of useful mathematics and to my mind is the most important ancient philosopher besides perhaps Buddha, Thales and Heraclitus imagined possibilities which late research confirms: they are enablers, not inventors.

    Music art and philosophy are the icing on the cake of our civilisation. I think our technical, political and social accomplishments are our true glory. Greek Philosophy is brilliant because much of it was more and better than mere word games, that is, not philosophy.

    Aristotle may have given Alexander some nice mind games to play at dinner but it didn't stop him from imagining he was a god, or from getting drunk, or from failing to secure his dynasty. these are also his father's and mother's failures, but they did equip him with cunning and valour., What exactly did Aristotle teach Alexander again?
    This.^^ Aristotle is also the reason, why the medieval church believed that the sun was cycling around the earth. Many of Aristotle scientific assumptions were plainly wrong.
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley_Quinn View Post
    This.^^ Aristotle is also the reason, why the medieval church believed that the sun was cycling around the earth. Many of Aristotle scientific assumptions were plainly wrong.
    Who would have thought?

    Now seriously, Aristotle was consider THE philosopher not because he gave a sufficient for the time explanation of the cosmos but becacuse he was a systematic and prolific writer, he gave definitions in many of the subjects he undertook and many of his definitions stood the test of time.
    Besides, his work acted as a hypothesis or theory that others disproved

    @ Cyclops

    Of course Christianity has been influenced by Platonism and Neoplatonism, but what would you expect? After all christianity started to spread to non-Jewish populations, Greek or Hellenized Eastern populations, because of the changes it underwent.
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    I still dislike this biased snob.^^

    At least he has no real impact on Alexander.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
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    Don't give a damn about what other people say
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Aristotle, obviously.
    As the "biased snob" (oh dear...) put it, when asked what the difference was between those who were educated and those who were not: "as great as between the living and the dead".
    As Wittgenstein said, in the Philosophical Investigations, "I should not like my writing to spare other people the trouble of thinking. But, if possible, to stimulate someone to thoughts of his own"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley_Quinn View Post
    he has no real impact on Alexander.
    In fact, Alexander knew better than anyone,
    Plutarch, Life of Alexander 8,
    He wondered at Aristotle and used to love him no less than his father, as he used to say, because he was alive thanks to one but lived well because of the other
    On a side note, Aristotle contribution to intellectual history- not only western philosophy- is absolutely incalculable.

    From my bookshelf, quoting Edith Hall, in "The Ancient Greeks. Ten ways They shaped The Modern World", page 193,

    Yet of all the brilliant men who helped Macedonia to conquer the world, the most important was Aristotle, tuto to both Alexander and his confident, Hephaestion. Aristotle raised the bar on intellectual enquiry in a way that still profoundly affects science, literature, philosophy, and political theory. It is difficult to imagine a more formidable and cosmopolitan source of support available to Alexander.
    The list is long, I could go on. I hope this suffices.
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 26, 2019 at 02:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Who also taught him xenophobe.
    And this shows once again that, as I said, Aristotle was really a great man!

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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    @Ludicus: How did Aristotle helped Alexander to conquer the world?

    Did he talked the Persians with long monologues to death?

    Alexander showed not the slighest sign of Aristotle's proclaimed virtues of character.

    He was not brave, he was daredevil (wounded several times, rescued from Kleitos in the battle of Granikos).

    He was not modest in consuming wine, he was limitless.

    He was not gentle, he was irascible ( killing of Kleitos, crucification of the physicians after Hephaistons death, death march through gedrosian desert after Hyphasis mutiny...).

    He was not sensitive, he was shameless (Founding of Bucephalia on the Hydaspes after death of his horse (!), his sorrow about Hephaistion's death was above everything what was normal...).

    He was not liberal, he was vain (son of Zeus Amon, bow down to the King...)

    He failed in everything, what Aristotle would have called virtues of character.

    So show me where is Aristotles impact?
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley_Quinn View Post
    So show me where is Aristotles impact?
    I have to agree. I don't think Aristotle's prejudices would have been too compatible with Alexander's attempts at cultural fusion (even if it was for pragmatic purposes). In addition, we still need to account for Callisthenes (nephew of Aristotle) who was put to death for criticizing Alexander too much.
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    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley_Quinn View Post
    So show me where is Aristotles impact?
    Well, presumably, since Aristotle was interested in how other, including distant, non-Greek, peoples govern themselves, he knew a bit more about geography than Phillip, therefore he was most likely the one who pointed to a certain direction on the Map of Hecataeus and say, look Alexander over there dry hot desert - bad, over there Babylon - good!

    In essence Alexander was taught about the World, Nature and Philosophy by Aristotle, however I would agree that Alexanders political and personal views weren't influenced much by Aristotle. I would say that he did make Alexander more inquisitive about a lot of things, including foreign cultures and civilizations. Aristotle probably thought one should learn about foreigners in order to know how to exploit their flaws, as well to gain those, probably in his opinion, rare advantages, they have over the Greeks. For Alexander it was more about how does one mix them into a single people who'll love him.

    Perhaps the question of this thread ought to be who influenced Alexander the most, not who was his teacher. It was Phillip who taught him military, but Aristotle the one who taught him nearly everything else. He was dissimilar to both men, he did inherit Philip's ambition, but his was far more grand. I think he wasn't influenced so much by one person, but more with one idea.

    Idea of being at the center of a world-wide empire, the closest person to that ideal was Darius I, not the III. Just like Darius, Alexander's name was written in many different languages, in many distant parts of the World, the difference however, is that Darius viewed himself somewhat as a guardian of the created World, in the name of Ahura Mazda, while Alexander viewed himself as a creator of a New World, which didn't materialize the way he had hoped, due to his successors.
    Last edited by Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σω January 27, 2019 at 09:41 AM.
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    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harley_Quinn View Post
    He failed in everything
    Aristotle "failed in everything"... (and no, Edith Hall is not an idiot, she knows what she is talking about -previous post).
    You need to scratch beneath the surface. Aristotle's Metaphysics was instrumental in founding the Arab philosophy (falsafa); all Aristotle's writings are unified by the methods of reasoning he developed, clearly expressed in Organon. In fact, Aristotle's works monopolized the entire history of philosophical critiques logic until the 19th/20th centuries. He also undertook a systematic study of animals, and it was not until the Renaissance that any comparable contribution of zoology was ever produced.

    In 335 Aristotle returned to Athens and for several years, in constant contact with Alexander, helped Alexander to become an outstanding speaker, and his works on ethics and political theory were also highly influential. It's easy to understand Aristotle's influence on Alexander, particularly in the Alexander's diplomatic handling of political problems. Plutarch, Alexander's letter to Aristotle,
    Alexander to Aristotle, greeting. You have not done well to publish your books of oral doctrine; for what is there now that we excel others in, if those things which we have been particularly instructed in be laid open to all? For my part, I assure you, I had rather excel others in the knowledge of what is excellent, than in the extent of my power and dominion. Farewell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    xenophobe...And this shows once again that, as I said, Aristotle was really a great man!
    Ah, Diocle, Diocle...
    Some would agree with you that the mainstream philosophy in the so-called West is narrow-minded and xenophobic.
    In fact it is true that in Politics Aristotle argued for the superiority of the Greeks and their natural right to rule other peoples and enslave them- a theory that matched Alexander's aspirations.
    Yet, according to some authors, several aspects Aristotle's Politics actually disturbs the Greek binary oppositions between citizen and the alien, between the Greek and barbarian, between polis and empire.
    Alexander never enforced Greek culture upon subjugates states, and introduced the Greek culture in the same fashion Aristotle introduced ideas to his students.

    On a side note, in the democratic and open society of Athens of the 5/4th centuries BC the Athenians took pride in their cultural openness. Let's hear Pericles's speech in 431 BC:
    we throw open our city to the world, and never expel a foreigner or prevent him from seeing or leaning anything
    Tell your friends Salvini, Orban and Trump (a friendly joke...no hard feelings) that Athenians positively welcomed immigrants.

    In my opinion, Aristotle's "xenophobia" doesn't derive from the modern hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin. For our modern xenophobes, the refugees are wild animals. For Aristotle being a slave is similar to being a tailor. It involves the possession of a determinate social identity like any other.
    Let's read a passage from the Nicomachean Ethics,
    ..For there is nothing common to the two parties; the slave is a living tool... Qua slave then, one cannot be friends with him. But qua human being one can; for there seems to be some justice between any human being and any other who can share in a system of law or be a party to an agreement; therefore there can also be friendship with him in so far as he is a man
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 27, 2019 at 01:39 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  20. #20
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Who was Alexander's greatest teacher?

    Don't rip my words out of context. The whole post is about Alexander not showing one virtue of character, which would Aristotle have seen as good virtues of a person. So Aristotle maybe have been a living encyclopedia for Alexander, but he had no success in forming Alexander' s character.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


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