What was the relationship between the Nazis and religion?

[Cyclops]

The Nazi movement was an intellectually weak political force that used propaganda effectively. It made appeals on the lines of Socialism, religion, patriotism etc as the need arose. Individual Nazis could be atheist, Catholic, Lutheran etc as their personal beliefs allowed. The only religion that was given consistent treatment was Judaism which was attacked insanely as part of a wider attack on Semites who were also bizarrely identified with Bolshevism.

In many ways Nazism was an "anti-movement" in that it defined itself as for a mythic Germany, but more so against Jews and Communism.

As such Hitler and his movement were complex and often self contradictory, and religious groups treated him in various ways. Individual religious leaders and communities opposed the violence and evil of the Nazis, and were often suppressed. Pope Pius XI opposed Nazism and excommunicated the Nazi party. Pius XII was more concerned with Communism and sought to use Nazism as a tool to destroy the definitely atheist Communist Soviet Union. Many religious leaders adopted this uneasy alliance as the best policy in bad times and some even lived to regret it.

The intellectual weakness of Nazism (it became a party based increasingly around one personality) meant that during its growth phase it was harder to define and oppose. It could appeal to workers against bosses, it could appeal to anti-Semites or anti-communists at the same time. It could move from a street fighting terror organisation with armed thug battalions into a sober looking conservative ally of the army and present itself as the saviour of the state.

Some Nazis wanted a return to an imagined ancient pagan purity, with idols in churches. others looked to bizarre theosophical type occultism. Others were boring "Church on Sunday, death camp on Monday" type functionaries who observed religion as a duty rather than love of God.

I don't think there's a consistent Nazi religious position., Hitler seems to have treated religion as an institution to be manipulated, but it does not seem to have been treated as important or given an organised approach.

[Mayer]

Hitler was a vegetarian atheist

False. He may have critizised the christian faith in private but he abhorred atheism.

He binded the protestant churches together into a neo-pagan reich Church.

He binded the protestant churches together so they were easier to control and conform to the political system. Similar to other authoritarian states really.
Not a policy to implement Neo-Paganism, far from it, the Germanic Christians were trying to formulate a new creed for the Reich (i.e. remove jewish influences in the bible)

Also, what were the views, and more importantly the reasons of those views of the Nazis towards other religions, such as Judaism, Islam, and Hinduism.

Judaism is Nazism's archenemy, literally the cause of all evils (Germany's loss, Bolshevism, financial criminals, perversion, modern art&culture).
Muslims were an ally, because they also saw the Jews as the problem and they were rebelling against the british empire.
Himmler was apparently fascinated with Hinduism's caste system, probably because he wanted to make the SS a caste of its own with superior breeding.

[Cyclops]

Not a policy to implement Neo-Paganism, far from it, the Germanic Christians were trying to formulate a new creed for the Reich (i.e. remove jewish influences in the bible)

...which is essentially paganism. The idea of placing the idol of a bull and a tree is the exact opposite of Christianity and Judaism.

Judaism is Nazism's archenemy, literally the cause of all evils (Germany's loss, Bolshevism, financial criminals, perversion, modern art&culture).

Yes, Jews were conflated with a number of other elements to create a Great Enemy.

Muslims were an ally, because they also saw the Jews as the problem and they were rebelling against the british empire.

This is an older idea, pursued in WWI (eg by Liman von Sanders) and inherited from Russia which had played the great game on these terms in the mid 19th century.

Himmler was apparently fascinated with Hinduism's caste system, probably because he wanted to make the SS a caste of its own with superior breeding.

I imagine this was because of the linguistic term "Aryan" first applied to Indian languages. Nazis misunderstood it as a racial term, and imagined some racial kinship across the ages. I seem to recall Nazi correspondence about the shock of Hitler's agents upon meeting "Aryan" Indians from the independence movement who turned out to have brown skin.

The policy of engaging both Hindu and Muslims in revolt against the British was a clumsy one, nothing was more likely to alienate both than friendship toward the other.

[basics]

I look back to both Hitler and the Kaiser and see the similarities that both had concerning the Germanic culture for as I see it both had a drive in them that was both personal and patriotic. The strange thing is that we all can be like that yet don't have the opportunities that these men had but put in the same position would we have been any different? Looking across the world today and we see the same drive for power, the same manipulation of peoples to create and keep that power. Can there be any doubt that the world appears to be turning left using any means or accusations to achieve it and we are supposed to have learned from these two world catastrophes yet the bodies are still piling up. Yes Hitler and the Nazis stand out but was/is he any worse than say Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Putin, Saddam Husein, Assad, bin Laden or some of the South American leaders. For me the one thing all had and have is a lack of personal experience of God.

[MaximiIian]

...which is essentially paganism. The idea of placing the idol of a bull and a tree is the exact opposite of Christianity and Judaism.

I do not see how it's any different than creating just another sect of Christianity. One that is heavily tied into a particular set of politics, but that's nothing new.

[Stario]

Yes Hitler and the Nazis stand out but was/is he any worse than say Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Putin, Saddam Husein, Assad, bin Laden or some of the South American leaders. For me the one thing all had and have is a lack of personal experience of God.

How convenient; you leave out Dubya.

I personally think Hitler was a hero. He volunteered for military service & served on the front lines, was wounded & awarded several decorations. I think he did what most would be too chicken- to do by refusing to pay 1,000,000 marks for a pint of beer.
Then there is the Jewish question!? Well I don't like Jews anyways & neither does anyone else in my family for the last 1,000 years.

[Prodromos]

How convenient; you leave out Dubya.

I personally think Hitler was a hero. He volunteered for military service & served on the front lines, was wounded & awarded several decorations. I think he did what most would be too chicken- to do by refusing to pay 1,000,000 marks for a pint of beer.
Then there is the Jewish question!? Well I don't like Jews anyways & neither does anyone else in my family for the last 1,000 years.

It's time for you to break the combo then, because Jews are pretty cool.

[athanaric]

How convenient; you leave out Dubya.

I don't like the guy's politics either, but comparing him to Hitler-tier villains seems a bit hyperbolic.

I personally think Hitler was a hero. He volunteered for military service & served on the front lines, was wounded & awarded several decorations.

Yes, he was a war hero as a soldier in WWI. He was also a military leader (remember WWII?) and made up an ideology based on make-believe and pseudo-science that got about 13 million Germans killed, along with even more other Europeans (most of whom weren't even Jews). I fail to see what's to like about him, unless you hate European people in general.

I think he did what most would be too chicken- to do by refusing to pay 1,000,000 marks for a pint of beer.

Um, what do the currency reform and the end of the inflation crisis have to do with Hitler?

[Diocle]

Really socialism has failed? I think you mean communism and than extreme forms.

Look around you, it's the greatest event of mankind history and it leaves a huge room for a lot of very surprising political experiences for the next generations: Socialism has failed under any form, everywhere.

[Stario]

I don't like the guy's politics either, but comparing him to Hitler-tier villains seems a bit hyperbolic.

Well i disagree, Hitler wasn't a villain. Dubya on the other hand was/is.

Yes, he was a war hero as a soldier in WWI. He was also a military leader (remember WWII?) and made up an ideology based on make-believe and pseudo-science that got about 13 million Germans killed, along with even more other Europeans (most of whom weren't even Jews). I fail to see what's to like about him, unless you hate European people in general.

You should take a look at 'romano archives' and such, the German population after loosing WWI subjected to constant street beatings & humiliations by its western occupiers. I think If I was a German citizen living post WW1 I would also not tolerate such actions by the western occupiers, & would be willing to die for it/go to War.
Then there is the Danzig corridor question!? The corridor separated mainland Germany from East Prussia (Germany), IMO played a big factor in Germany attacking Poland. I think Hitler was absolutely correct wanting it back as it was German, this is akin to Mexico claiming a corridor that runs right through the middle of USA & claiming it as its own. Simply would not be tolerated.

Hitler did for germany what most Germans wanted to do but were too scared to do/or not strong enough to do; that is he stood up to the school yard bully. This IMO is the best way to live even if you eventually die for it.
IMO Hitler was a real life Superhero.
Besides National Socialism > Communism. IMO Europe would be a much better place today had Germany won WWII; Communism absolutely screwed over Europe.

Um, what do the currency reform and the end of the inflation crisis have to do with Hitler?

Well lets say German citizens were no longer required to use suitcases for wallets. Hard to fit a suitcase in your trouser pockets...hmmmm

[athanaric]

Well i disagree, Hitler wasn't a villain. Dubya on the other hand was/is.

Objectively speaking, GW Bush hasn't done anyway near the damage to his own people as Hitler did. Nor has he killed anywhere close as many foreigners, or caused as much devastation. So I don't see by what metric you're calling Bush a villain and Hitler a hero. Unless the latter has benefitted you or your people somehow and the former hasn't.

You should take a look at 'romano archives' and such, the German population after loosing WWI subjected to constant street beatings & humiliations by its western occupiers. I think If I was a German citizen living post WW1 I would also not tolerate such actions by the western occupiers, & would be willing to die for it/go to War.
Then there is the Danzig corridor question!? The corridor separated mainland Germany from East Prussia (Germany), IMO played a big factor in Germany attacking Poland. I think Hitler was absolutely correct wanting it back as it was German, this is akin to Mexico claiming a corridor that runs right through the middle of USA & claiming it as its own. Simply would not be tolerated.

There's no question that the Versailles Treaty was unfair and that France and Britain before and after WWI (less so before WWII) were out to get Germany, no matter how much the establishment or people like AltHype will sperg about it. However that doesn't excuse the extreme politics of the Nazis. FWIW, the re-occupation of the Rhineland or even the occupation of Sudetenland was not what caused the Allies to declare war. It's Hitler's and the Nazis' fault for pushing further than that.

Hitler did for germany what most Germans wanted to do but were too scared to do/or not strong enough to do; that is he stood up to the school yard bully. This IMO is the best way to live even if you eventually die for it.
IMO Hitler was a real life Superhero.

Well lets say German citizens were no longer required to use suitcases for wallets. Hard to fit a suitcase in your trouser pockets...hmmmm

Most of the accomplishments you've listed here were achieved by Stresemann and other Weimar-era politicians who were Social Democrats, liberals, or conservatives, and not Nazis or Commie swine. The currency reform was before the Nazi regime. The only thing the Nazis did in that regard was provide more jobs, and that was because of their government spending and their outright predation on certain groups of German citizens and later, foreigners.

[Stario]

Objectively speaking, GW Bush hasn't done anyway near the damage to his own people as Hitler did. Nor has he killed anywhere close as many foreigners, or caused as much devastation. So I don't see by what metric you're calling Bush a villain and Hitler a hero. Unless the latter has benefitted you or your people somehow and the former hasn't.

To me the metric should be what one is fighting for, not the death toll; sometimes one must even accept a high death toll for freedom. The Germans were fighting to reclaim back their 'fatherland' & dignity, their home in essence.
Dubya started wars just for the sake of starting wars, there was never any 'weapons of mass destruction' etc. it all just seemed to be about causing suffering, mass murder, & destabilisation of a region ( most likely for economical/financial gain the way I see it). This in my book makes him a villain.

There's no question that the Versailles Treaty was unfair and that France and Britain before and after WWI (less so before WWII) were out to get Germany, no matter how much the establishment or people like AltHype will sperg about it. However that doesn't excuse the extreme politics of the Nazis. FWIW, the re-occupation of the Rhineland or even the occupation of Sudetenland was not what caused the Allies to declare war. It's Hitler's and the Nazis' fault for pushing further than that.

What do you mean by pushing further!?
Hitler called Danzig to be reunited with Germany & the desirability of an overland connection between Germany and East Prussia across the Polish Corridor, Danzig after all was german the the corridor basically split Germany in half. In return he offered to guarantee Polish rights in Danzig and guarantee Poland’s western border. Polish German military co-operation against Russia and future gains in the Ukraine was also discussed.

Also remember it was the allies that declared war. Hitler sued for peace multiple times but Churchill rejected all peace offers. Seeing French & Brits starting to mobilise on the the Western front, Germany had no choice but to strike first (attack France), or risk getting crushed. The British empire & its colonies alone were massive & would've easily crushed Germany if allowed time to mobilise.

Most of the accomplishments you've listed here were achieved by Stresemann and other Weimar-era politicians who were Social Democrats, liberals, or conservatives, and not Nazis or Commie swine. The currency reform was before the Nazi regime. The only thing the Nazis did in that regard was provide more jobs, and that was because of their government spending and their outright predation on certain groups of German citizens and later, foreigners.

The Weimar government was a chronic mess of misery. Hence why the Nazis were able to gain power so quickly, most Germans felt that the Nazis were making an effort to improve their lot, & by the start of WWII Germany was economically one of the strongest nations in Europe.

[95thrifleman]

I'd have more sympathy for Germany had they not passed the Nuremberg laws in 1935.

[basics]

Stario,

If memory serves me correct Bush went to war in Iraq because that people were crying out for help. I don't think he is in the same class as the others. Now as far as the Jews are concerned Hitler saw a use for them to gather support for his views of them amongst ordinary Germans. This instinct in him didn't just arise for he must have had the hatred for a very long time or early in his life perhaps fostered by his parents or relatives.

[Stario]

If memory serves me correct Bush went to war in Iraq because that people were crying out

Yeah! Cool story Bro

I'd have more sympathy for Germany had they not passed the Nuremberg laws in 1935.

Anti-semitism wasn't anything new in Europe; but the Jews really didn't help their own cause declaring a economic & financial "holy war" on Germany in 1933. Some strong words being used here- "Thereby the war against Germany will ideologically enliven and promote our interests, which require that Germany be wholly destroyed". I don't think any government even today would react kindly at the threat of being "wholly destroyed".




"On March 12, 1933 the American Jewish Congress announced a massive protest at Madison Square Gardens for March 27. At that time the commander in chief of the Jewish War Veterans called for an American boycott of German goods. In the meantime, on March 23, 20,000 Jews protested at New York's City Hall as rallies were staged outside the North German Lloyd and Hamburg-American shipping lines and boycotts were mounted against German goods throughout shops and businesses in New York City.
According to The Daily Express of London of March 24, 1933, the Jews had already launched their boycott against Germany and her elected government. The headline read "Judea Declares War on Germany - Jews of All the World Unite - Boycott of German Goods - Mass Demonstrations." The article described a forthcoming "holy war" and went on to implore Jews everywhere to boycott German goods and engage in mass demonstrations against German economic interests. According to the Express:

• The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare an economic and financial war on Germany. The appearance of the Swastika as the symbol of the new Germany has revived the old war symbol of Judas to new life. Fourteen million Jews scattered over the entire world are tight to each other as if one man, in order to declare war against the German persecutors of their fellow believers.
  The Jewish wholesaler will quit his house, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his business, and the beggar his humble hut, in order to join the holy war against Hitler's people.

The Express said that Germany was "now confronted with an international boycott of its trade, its finances, and its industry.... In London, New York, Paris and Warsaw, Jewish businessmen are united to go on an economic crusade."

The article said "worldwide preparations are being made to organize protest demonstrations," and reported that "the old and reunited nation of Israel gets in formation with new and modern weapons to fight out its age old battle against its persecutors."
This truly could be described as "the first shot fired in the Second World War."

In a similar vein, the Jewish newspaper Natscha Retsch wrote:

• The war against Germany will be waged by all Jewish communities, conferences, congresses... by every individual Jew. Thereby the war against Germany will ideologically enliven and promote our interests, which require that Germany be wholly destroyed.
  The danger for us Jews lies in the whole German people, in Germany as a whole as well as individually. It must be rendered harmless for all time.... In this war we Jews have to participate, and this with all the strength and might we have at our disposal."....

[basics]

Stario,

And so Hitler had six million Jews killed in the lands that he conquered and would have killed more had he won the war. These figures do not include all the other deaths that he caused, the one that comes to mind being the twenty-seven million Russians.

[athanaric]

To me the metric should be what one is fighting for, not the death toll; sometimes one must even accept a high death toll for freedom. The Germans were fighting to reclaim back their 'fatherland' & dignity, their home in essence.

Some of them perhaps did, but you're pretending that the ideology of National Socialism (which glorifies conquest and tyranny over "lesser" people) didn't extist.

Dubya started wars just for the sake of starting wars, there was never any 'weapons of mass destruction' etc. it all just seemed to be about causing suffering, mass murder, & destabilisation of a region ( most likely for economical/financial gain the way I see it). This in my book makes him a villain.

If it really was about mass murder, he did a really job because the Iraqi population has grown continuously throughout the 20th century and the last few decades. And the Americans and their allies could've killed millions if they'd wanted to, and hadn't restricted themselves to abide by "civilized" rules. Whatever the motives of the Bush administration (which are complex BTW), they never declared nor waged total war.

What do you mean by pushing further!?
Hitler called Danzig to be reunited with Germany & the desirability of an overland connection between Germany and East Prussia across the Polish Corridor, Danzig after all was german the the corridor basically split Germany in half. In return he offered to guarantee Polish rights in Danzig and guarantee Poland’s western border. Polish German military co-operation against Russia and future gains in the Ukraine was also discussed.

Um, what's your source for all that?

Also remember it was the allies that declared war.

Well yeah, from their perspective, Germany was continuously attacking/annexing neighbours. Also, you seem to be conveniently ignoring the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

The Weimar government was a chronic mess of misery.

Which was in part the fault of totalitarian movements, of which the Nazis made up one half and the Communists the other. They were continuously waging campaigns against the democratic forces, up to and including terrorism and assassinations.

Anti-semitism wasn't anything new in Europe; but the Jews really didn't help their own cause declaring a economic & financial "holy war" on Germany in 1933. Some strong words being used here- "Thereby the war against Germany will ideologically enliven and promote our interests, which require that Germany be wholly destroyed". I don't think any government even today would react kindly at the threat of being "wholly destroyed".

Again, what's your source for this? And also, while I don't think that people calling for the destruction of Germany should exist, you're leaving out the context of the Nazi movement being rabidly anti-Jewish since its inception.

[Stario]

And so Hitler had six million Jews killed in the lands that he conquered and would have killed more had he won the war. These figures do not include all the other deaths that he caused, the one that comes to mind being the twenty-seven million Russians.

Approximately 1.2 million Germans killed the years following WWII by allies; & this does not include the millions killed under Stalin. Yeah lucky the right side won.

If it really was about mass murder, he did a really job because the Iraqi population has grown continuously throughout the 20th century and the last few decades. And the Americans and their allies could've killed millions if they'd wanted to, and hadn't restricted themselves to abide by "civilized" rules. Whatever the motives of the Bush administration (which are complex BTW), they never declared nor waged total war.

Nah i think he did a great job at destabilising the region, & people are still dying today as a result. Most sources put the figure to about 500,000 deaths in Afghanistan + Iraq as a result of destabilisation of the region.

Um, what's your source for all that?

Google Danzig corridor & educate yourself.

Well yeah, from their perspective, Germany was continuously attacking/annexing neighbours

What neighbours? Austria accepted the Germans with open arms as they are ethnically the same people, speak the same language; both part of the 2nd Reich.
Danzig was German prior to Versailles Treaty (and effectively divided Germany in two).
The Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia was also German. While Poland took the opportunity to annex the Tesin region in the north, which had a Polish minority of 75,000, & Hungary annexed the southern part of Slovakia and Ruthenia, with a Hungarian minority of 750,000.

Point being the only neighbours that Germany annexed until the declaration of war were other Germans; who basically accepted the Nazis with open arms (well geez..I wonder why!?)

Again, what's your source for this? And also, while I don't think that people calling for the destruction of Germany should exist, you're leaving out the context of the Nazi movement being rabidly anti-Jewish since its inception.

Not just Germany whole Europe being rabidly anti-Jewish; again antisemitism was nothing new in Europe.
But I think it is likely that Hitler didn't hate the Jews on a personal level (as there were quite a number of Jews that held high positions within Nazi Germany).
Prior to the Nazi's restricting the rights of the German Jews, the leaders of the worldwide Jewish community formally declared war on the "New Germany" at a time when the U.S. government and even the Jewish leaders in Germany were urging caution in dealing with the new Nazi regime.

The war by the international Jewish leadership on Germany not only sparked reprisals by the Nazi's but also set the stage for a little-known economic and political alliance between the Nazi's and the leaders of the Zionist movement who hoped that the tension between the Germans and the Jews would lead to massive emigration to Palestine. In short, the result was a tactical alliance between the Nazis and the founders of the present-day state of Israel. In essence the International Jew contributed; if not just as much, as the Nazi's to the plight of the German Jew-as a result of this alliance- a fact most would prefer you to forget.



The Jewish declaration of war on Germany.
https://rense.com//general84/declare.htm

[Mayer]

If memory serves me correct Bush went to war in Iraq because that people were crying out for help. I don't think he is in the same class as the others.

I don't recall such memories, the iraqi people never asked Bush to invade their country.

However, i don't know what any of this has to do with religion. Unless we begin arguing that Nazis were deifying the state, or the Jews were organized in anti-german interest groups or the more abstract topic: Are political ideologies (Liberalism, Socialism, Nationalism) modern religions?

[sumskilz]

The Jewish declaration of war on Germany.
https://rense.com//general84/declare.htm

Ah, The Barnes Review. Have you read any of their other publications, such as Lucifer's Army: An Exposé of Talmudic Tyranny, Jewish Ritual Murder: A Historical Investigation, or Debating the Holocaust: A New Look at Both Sides? They also appear to have some nice scientific publications - The Children Of Ra: Artistic, Historical, And Genetic Evidence For Ancient White Egypt and The Aryan Race: Its Origins and Its Achievements just to name a couple of examples.