[Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

[TheLonelyEmperor]

Wow very impressed with your work mate!
Currently in the middle of a long glorious Roman campaign but I've been debating a Greek play through soon. I noted that you said you will be making adjustments in the future however will you be adding any more features or is the plan for now just balancing? Of course I don't expect more or anything I'd just rather try to wait and see what else is in store before committing to a play through. I like yourself am a man of 12tpy and a LOT of time committed to each campaign.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Hello Lonely Emperor and thank you for your interest in the mod!

Basically, the first thing I have to do - and what I'm doing now - is to redo all the interactions between the edicts and buildings and traits. I'm already done with the traits and now I'm going through the buildings. Hopefully, I'll be done with it this weekend, or at the start of the next week at the latest. I will then release the patch and with that patch I will consider the edicts, along with all the other features this mod currently contains, to be fully implemented in the game.

After that, I will focus a bit more on balancing the DeI edicts in line with my concept (Food Import/Export, Sell Slaves). I will see also if I can make the edicts even more interesting with my custom-made effects I've started to create recently, I will look more closely into balancing these effects across different imperium levels, also against the buildings and traits, and I will most likely add some other aesthetic features as I move along.

Once this is done I will move onto other areas of the game and see what I can make of all these ideas that are currently shooting up in my head. But that's not gonna be any time soon.

All in all, I think the mod is very much playable and enjoyable in its current form, especially once the upcoming patch is released, so you are surely good to go with it. I'm using it myself in tandem with 12 TPY, Alternative Economy and Cultural Tensio, and I believe the mod should actually appeal even more to those who prefer slow-paced campaigns as it slows down the expansion of Rome and makes the balance of power more equally distributed across the map through the changes to the Autoresolve script.

[Nordling]

Hello Lonely Emeperor and thank you for your interest in the mod!

Basically, the first thing I have to do - and what I'm doing now - is to redo all the interactions between the edicts and buildings and traits. I'm already done with the traits and now I'm going through the buildings. Hopefully, I'll be done with it this weekend, or at the start of the next week at the latest. I will then release the patch and with that patch I will consider the edicts, along with all the other features this mod currently contains, to be fully implemented in the game.

After that, I will focus a bit more on balancing the DeI edicts in line with my concept (Food Import/Export, Sell Slaves). I will see also if I can make the edicts even more interesting with my custom-made effects I've started to create recently, I will look more closely into balancing these effects across different imperium levels, also against the buildings and traits, and I will most likely add some other aesthetic features as I move along.

Once this is done I will move onto other areas of the game and see what I can make of all these ideas that are currently shooting up in my head. But that's not gonna be any time soon.

All in all, I think the mod is very much playable and enjoyable in its current form, especially once the upcoming patch is released, so you are surely good to go with it. I'm using it myself in tandem with 12 TPY, Alternative Economy and Cultural Tensio, and I believe the mod should actually appeal even more to those who prefer slow-paced campaigns as it slows down the expansion of Rome and makes the balance of power more equally distributed across the map through the changes to the Autoresolve script.

This submod really sounds very interesting, I have to try it out soon. I am coming near the end of my massalia campaign and after Im done with it, I will give it a go - convenient timing since I gotta finish romans off first, finish my finals and then ill have more time for this. Exactly the time you need to roll out the patch

I think ill try out the "Seleukos I. Nikator experience" - cultural tensio, 12 TPY and alternative economy, see how that is havent played CT yet. Not sure yet which faction though. Definitely someething eastern since i just had the western experience - im thinking baktria will suit me

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

This submod really sounds very interesting, I have to try it out soon. I am coming near the end of my massalia campaign and after Im done with it, I will give it a go - convenient timing since I gotta finish romans off first, finish my finals and then ill have more time for this. Exactly the time you need to roll out the patch

I think ill try out the "Seleukos I. Nikator experience" - cultural tensio, 12 TPY and alternative economy, see how that is havent played CT yet. Not sure yet which faction though. Definitely someething eastern since i just had the western experience - im thinking baktria will suit me

Hey Nordling,

Cheers!

Yes, you've got to try it. You'll love it, I'm sure!

You may actually consider the Seleucids as they are always the uppermost in my mind when it comes to assigning the modding priorities. The changed settlement names, for example, reflect very well their own political landscape, which is a nice immersion factor. But frankly, any Successor kingdom would be a way to go, may it be the Antigonids, the Bactrians, the Ptolemies, or perhaps the Attalids. The Ptolomaic empire is usually considered an easy campaign, but from what I can tell, with the recent build of CT and stronger Seleucids from my mod, it should be much more challenging than it previously was.

[Tenerife_Boy]

I had to give this mod a try cause I'm a hellenic player and I'm really enjoying the city name changes. I also use DAIA and Alternative Economy along with a submod on the workshop that changes the Greek champions. Really inmersive.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Thank you, Tenerife Boy, that's very kind of you.

Once you try the mod, please, let me know what you think.

Regarding DAIA, though, I don't think that that mod is currently compatible with the latest version of DeI, just so you know.

Also, which Greek champions mod are you reffering to? As I've made some changes to the agents, I'm not sure whether my mod would be compatible with that one.

[Nordling]

Hey Nordling,

Cheers!

Yes, you've got to try it. You'll love it, I'm sure!

You may actually consider the Seleucids as they are always the uppermost in my mind when it comes to assigning the modding priorities. The changed settlement names, for example, reflect very well their own political landscape, which is a nice immersion factor. But frankly, any Successor kingdom would be a way to go, may it be the Antigonids, the Bactrians, the Ptolemies, or perhaps the Attalids. The Ptolomaic empire is usually considered an easy campaign, but from what I can tell, with the recent build of CT and stronger Seleucids from my mod, it should be much more challenging than it previously was.

I gave seleucids a shot once a while ago, with alternative economy installed, and I havent found their campaign challenging. My army build for them stomped over anything I was facing. Silver shields on left supported by royal and normal peltasts, bronze shields on right supported by theurophoroi, 2 units of hetairoi on the right flank (the only way a player should place them!) with light cav on left just destroyed every opposition I faced. If what you say is true and seleucids really are stronger in your mod then I want to see their might unleashed on me!

I strongly feel that baktria will be the faction of choice since HA play is something I havemt done in a long time.

[Tenerife_Boy]

Yes DAIA is compatible as far as I can play the game without crashes.
The champion submod is this : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...93&searchtext=

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

I gave seleucids a shot once a while ago, with alternative economy installed, and I havent found their campaign challenging. My army build for them stomped over anything I was facing. Silver shields on left supported by royal and normal peltasts, bronze shields on right supported by theurophoroi, 2 units of hetairoi on the right flank (the only way a player should place them!) with light cav on left just destroyed every opposition I faced. If what you say is true and seleucids really are stronger in your mod then I want to see their might unleashed on me!

I strongly feel that baktria will be the faction of choice since HA play is something I havemt done in a long time.

Yes, it is true that the Seleucid roster is really powerful. I like to play that faction due to my interests in the history of this empire, but then I try to make the life a bit more difficult for myself and use more versatile army compositions with the low-tier native units supporting the more elite Hellenic ones, which is obviously a more historical approach, as well.

As mentioned in the OP, the Seleucids should indeed be the dominant force in the eastern part of the map. Though, please, bear in mind that this is subject to probability and each campaign will always take its own course and that their advantage is in their autoresolve against other AI-factions and does not affect directly the human player.

Yes DAIA is compatible as far as I can play the game without crashes.
The champion submod is this : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...93&searchtext=

Regarding DAIA, as far as I remember, there is one column in one table with some conflicting entries from the latest version of DeI. So if you make DAIA overwrite this table you are kind of breaking to some extent the Scipio's CAI design.

Thanks for that link, I will check it out and see if there might be any compatibility issues.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Yes DAIA is compatible as far as I can play the game without crashes.
The champion submod is this : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...93&searchtext=

hmm...I think Scipio and Dardo said that DAIA isn't compatible with our latest AI changes

~Seleukos.I.Nikator~
I'm very much interested in your Autoresolve script redone buddy. Any reports after it's use ?

[Nordling]

Hey man! I played with your submod today for some time (probably at expense of my finals... 5th year of university is just boring ) as baktria and sleeucids were smashed around turn 70-80! Thye got their bottom handed to them by egypt, atropatkan (which is the strongest faction in east right now) and rhodos, of all factions. My guess is that something is not working quite right... or maybe it was just a one-time occurence

As for your submod choice, I personally love it and will be using it from now onward in every campaign. 12 TPY + CT + AE is just so much fun. Thanks for recommendation!

As for your edicts choice, I find them to be a bit harsh. Completing province should be rewarding as you can get those edicts rolling. I agree that there should be downsides to every edicts, however those are way too harsh, imo, and have to be micromanaged every turn. Just my personal opinion, though.

All in all, a very entertaining experience with your submod and your recommendation for other submods. Egypt is rocking all the western mediterranean coast so I am confident that I will have to fight at least 1 major hellenic faction in the future

Cheers and congrats on the submod

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Hey man! I played with your submod today for some time (probably at expense of my finals... 5th year of university is just boring ).

Study hard as you should for your finals young man and they come back and play DEI

[Nordling]

Study hard as you should for your finals young man and they come back and play DEI

I have been leaving studying up to the last moment for the last 3 years and I still have managed to pass all my classes with no second terms i hope that it will be the same for the last year, however the closer i am to finishing the less motivation i have

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Hey Nordling,

Thank you very much for your feedback. That's very much apprecieated!

Hey man! I played with your submod today for some time (probably at expense of my finals... 5th year of university is just boring ) as baktria and sleeucids were smashed around turn 70-80! Thye got their bottom handed to them by egypt, atropatkan (which is the strongest faction in east right now) and rhodos, of all factions. My guess is that something is not working quite right... or maybe it was just a one-time occurence

That's quite unfortunate, though, as you said yourself, at the end of the day this is always a lottery and nothing is really predetermined here. There are many factors that influence how each campaign pans out and this autoresolve script is only one of them.

Just a couple of questions here. Have you got to fight the Seleucids, at all? Were you officially at war with them? Were they conquered entirely or just reduced in their territory? Did you, by any chance, manage to track more closely the developments in that part of the map? Like for example, did you see which of those factions were fighting the Seleucids field armies and which factions were just simply taking territory from them after defeating merely the garrison armies?

Basically, with the current bonus the Seleucids get from the script it should be very difficult for factions such as Rhodes or Atro to defeat their field armies. The Seleucids get also the upper hand against the Ptolemies, that bonus is, however, much lower. My guess would, thus, be that it was the Ptolemies who did most of the fightning against them while the others were just simply ripping the fruits of their hard work. As for those minor factions such as Atro and Rhodes, if they manage to launch some strong attacks against the garrison armies they are capable of defeating them. They would, most of the time, sustain some considerable casualties in the process, but they are, nonetheless, able to succeed.

In my current campaign with the Seleucids I have observed, for instance, a similar patter with the Ptolemies. First there was a short war between us, in which I took Laodikeia Phoenice (Tyros) from them, but otherwise there's been peace between us. The Ptolemies are, however, at war on multiple fronts with the Cyrene to the west, Rhodes to the north, Medewi to the south and some Arabian factions and some of my former satrapies to the east. They appear to be struggling a lot in this situation. They have a considerable force of a few full stacks but they just locked them all in the hearth of their kingdom in the northern Egypt and they do not seem to be able to take any decisive action against any of their rivals. First it was Rhodes that launched the invasion of Cuprus, but the Ptolemaic garrison there actually managed to crush the whole Rodian stack. In the souther Egypt, though, the Medewi managed to take two settlements of theirs after defeating their garrisons there and the thing is that if only the Ptolemies could move any of their armies south they would easily retake those lost settlements and probably take the whole Ethiopia in the process with that bonus to their autoresolve against the Medewi, but they just simply refrain from taking any action.

I think the Seleucids might have suffered from the similar problem in your campaign.

As for your edicts choice, I find them to be a bit harsh. Completing province should be rewarding as you can get those edicts rolling. I agree that there should be downsides to every edicts, however those are way too harsh, imo, and have to be micromanaged every turn. Just my personal opinion, though.

Yes, I realize that these edicts with their current effects are not that straightforward, but that is actually my vision of how the game should be played. Overall, one can definitely benefit from them if they are used at the right time in the right place, but yes, you are right that this requires constant interaction and more micromanagement. Given how these edicts work atm, I think it would be right thing to do to actually increase their number per each level of imperium so that the player can issue edicts in all his controlled provinces. Another thing is also that these edicts are supposed to interact with the buildings and traits and that's how you boost their positive effects or/and alleviate the negative effects. I'm nearly done with this update that, unless some unforseen cirucumstances occur, will be released tmr and that will improve the way these edicts work.

[Falco]

12 TPY + CT + AE

AE is Alternative Economy right? And CT = Cultural Tensio? I thought CT was didn't work with DeI at the moment?

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

AE is Alternative Economy right? And CT = Cultural Tensio? I thought CT was didn't work with DeI at the moment?

Yes, that's correct. CT is very much compatible at the moment, it is only DAIA (De Ai Arbiitris) that is not compatible.

And how is your Seleucid campaign, Falco?

[Falco]

Yes, that's correct. CT is very much compatible at the moment, it is only DAIA (De Ai Arbiitris) that is not compatible.

And how is your Seleucid campaign, Falco?

Ahh ok thanks for clearing that up. I restarted with the release of AAA Greek Generals. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Nordling]

@Seleukos, i was not at war with seleucids. I merely encountered them via their satrapies. I had no vision on their lands so cannot comment on how they got owned. All i know is that rhodos played a big part in that as they liberated 2 cities (which are now its military allies). Also, atro is beating everybody around quite handsomely and has command over all previous seleucids satrapies' land that was not conquered by myself. India got beaten quote easily as well, by Saba. There are now 5 major powers in the region: rhodos with its allies, egypt, saba, atro and me as baktria with atro being the one with most land (which is bound to change sooner rather than later )

And yes, seleucids were beaten entirely, they have been wiped out.

On a side note im a bit dissapointed with CT. All the changes done are very cool however the temples are now almost entirely useless, granting 1 culture conversion maximum. Meanwhile barracks grant 1.5 or more. I see little use for them in my campaign which makes me sad. Throws off the structures balance a bit imo

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Ahh ok thanks for clearing that up. I restarted with the release of AAA Greek Generals. I'll let you know how it goes.

Ohhh... it's been released already, that's excellent! I haven't even noticed and I was also very much looking forward to it. I'm gonna check it out!

@Seleukos, i was not at war with seleucids. I merely encountered them via their satrapies. I had no vision on their lands so cannot comment on how they got owned. All i know is that rhodos played a big part in that as they liberated 2 cities (which are now its military allies). Also, atro is beating everybody around quite handsomely and has command over all previous seleucids satrapies' land that was not conquered by myself. India got beaten quote easily as well, by Saba. There are now 5 major powers in the region: rhodos with its allies, egypt, saba, atro and me as baktria with atro being the one with most land (which is bound to change sooner rather than later )

And yes, seleucids were beaten entirely, they have been wiped out.

On a side note im a bit dissapointed with CT. All the changes done are very cool however the temples are now almost entirely useless, granting 1 culture conversion maximum. Meanwhile barracks grant 1.5 or more. I see little use for them in my campaign which makes me sad. Throws off the structures balance a bit imo

I see, thank you very much for the extensive feedback, Nordling! +rep, of course.

[Dresden]

You asked about knowing what files were updated in the feedback thread - I thought it would be a good idea to post packs for submod creators to check out. So from now on (as long as I remember ) you can go here to find the resource http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?793043