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Thread: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

  1. #341

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    It seems you have an error in fashion, you have strengthened the auto battle of the Greeks , and Carthage is not prescribed. It lose 40 move from the minors . What's wrong with playing the 1.2 a version with Scipio's Realism

  2. #342
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Are you trying to say that Carthage is missing from the autoresolve script? I will check that out tonight.

  3. #343
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI







    Age of Hellenism v. 1.3

    New patch is now out. The emphasis has been put chiefly on the CAI modifications and mod balancing. The mod in its current version shifts to an even greater degree the campaign focus away from Rome and towards the big Hellenistic powerhouses such as the Successor kingdoms and Parthia. For the human player it means that he will in all likelihood have to face in the course of his campaign more nations with aggressive and expansive policies and vast armies and resources at their disposal than only Rome herself.

    Detailed patch notes;

    CAI modifications (full version only):


    • Seleukids, Ptolemies, Antigonids, Parthians and Epirus get custom CAI personalities that are similar to how the Roman faction is set up
    • Seleukids and Ptolemies will be more expansive and aggressive
    • Antigonids, Parthians and Epirus are highly aggressive and military-minded at the start of the campaign, though they may slow down a bit should they happen to grow larger
    • All ‘major factions’ will still defend their territory, but now they will also be keener to take the offensive actions, especially in their neighbouring regions
    • The power and significance of the Seleukid satrapies have been largely reduced making them an easy target for their larger neighbours. The Seleukid satrapies will have smaller armies at their disposal, they will be much more passive in their behaviour and they will operate mostly within their own regions without supporting actively their Seleukid overlord.
    • Some of the barbarian factions will be more reckless and aggressive
    • The AI will not actively support much its allies, especially over the longer distances. While this would normally be a desirable behaviour, the way it currently works it’s just too buggy and nonsensical. The AI stacks have often pathfinding issues, they get stuck while trying to reach their target or even if they manage to reach it, they never return to defend their own territory. I believe, thus, that the AI is most competent when it sticks to its own territory and the surrounding regions.
    • AI factions will prioritize less the military buildings and more the PO-related buildings. This is especially important to those who use the Cultural Tensio submod which is strongly recommended to do so.


    Other modifications:


    • Parthians and Antigonids receive each a bonus faction trait granting them respectively a cheaper recruitment of the cavalry and the pike units (player + AI) (Full version only)
    • Parthians and Antigonids receive some scripted financial bonuses at the early stage of the campaign (AI only) (Full version + AoH Lite)
    • Strategic stance between the Seleukids and some of their neighbours has been modified so as to make them either more friendly or neutral towards the Seleukids. This is to avoid the situation when the Seleukids find themselves at war with pretty much all their neighbours at the same time (Full version + AoH Lite)
    • Strategic stance between Rome and some of her Celtic neighbours in the Po Valley has been modified towards hostile so as to trigger conflicts on the Roman northern frontier and make Rome focus her expansion a bit more in that direction (Full version + AoH Lite)
    • The edict effects have been rebalanced. The ‘Freedom to the Greeks’ edict has been renamed to ‘Promote Hellenism’ edict which is more suitable for regions that lay outside the Hellenic epicentre (Full version only)
    • Autoresolve script has been slightly rebalanced and the bonus that the Seleukids had been receiving to their offensive battles against the Antigonids, Ptolemies and Epirus has been removed (Full version only)




    Campaign progress - Turn 50 - playing as Baktria
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Campaign progress - Turn 100 - playing as Baktria
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Campaign progress - Turn 150 - playing as Baktria
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 








    • For the download links, please, check the opening post
    • The use of Cultural Tensio mod is highly recommended
    • The opening post and the steam workshop link will be respectively updated and created in the near future
    • I have tested this mod on one campaign I've been playing for the past several weeks. I personally very much like these changes, but of course to properly balance something one needs more than just one campaign. Your feedback is thus much appreciated!
    Last edited by ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~; March 19, 2020 at 04:54 PM.

  4. #344
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Great presentation for a great mod, Seleukos!

  5. #345
    Lupo's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    I'm looking forward to playing with the mod ..... thumbs up !!!

  6. #346

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    excellent work! i assume this isn't save compatible? if not, no problem! looking to start a sparta campaign with this update

  7. #347
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Thanks guys!

    Asher, it won't break your campaign if you use it on an existing one, but it won't really have much effect on it, either.

    You should basically start a new campaign.

  8. #348

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Thank you for your work!
    Just finished (almost 200 turns a campaing with Syracuse, i have all of Italy, Sicily and a Epirus, i always end it when i killed the romans) and really want to jump to play Macedonians, or Pergamum. And i can't for the life of me play without your mod.

    Again, thank you very much!

  9. #349

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Seleukos, your work looks great and I'll definitely be integrating the AoH Lite pack into my personal submod when I eventually start my next long term campaign with Jake's Testudo (I often merge different mod packs to keep the count of individual mod files to a minimum). In vanilla and even regular DeI, it's so odd that the true dominant and powerful factions and culture of the time period/location...aren't dominant throughout most of a campaignm (it took Rome like 200 years to become a greater force in the Mediterranean, from what I understand). A shame there's limitations on what modders can do with the already bad or mediocre CAI and BAI.

    The AI will not actively support much its allies, especially over the longer distances. While this would normally be a desirable behaviour, the way it currently works it’s just too buggy and nonsensical. The AI stacks have often pathfinding issues, they get stuck while trying to reach their target or even if they manage to reach it, they never return to defend their own territory. I believe, thus, that the AI is most competent when it sticks to its own territory and the surrounding regions.
    A great solution! From my experience, giving the AI less to do actually improves its performance, more often than not, I guess by allowing it to better "focus its attention" on things that matter more. I'm curious though, what db tables are these changes contained in and would they be compatible with a submod such as Testudo? Would I be able to add them to the Lite version and it still be compatible with other, large submods?

  10. #350
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Glad to hear you like the approach, guys.

    Aureliae, basically you should be looking at two tables here;


    • DeI_cai_task_management_system_task_generator_groups_generators_junctions; this table deals directly with the prioritisation of certain tasks by the CAI which are determined for each type of CAI_personality. In this table there are entries such as;
      • CAI_TMS_TASK_GENERATOR_WAR_COORDINATION_ATTACK_REGIONS
      • CAI_TMS_TASK_GENERATOR_WAR_COORDINATION_ATTACK_FORCES

    If you set here lower values, the CAI will simply deprioritise following the war coordination targets.


    • DeI_campaign_ai_personality_junctions; here there is a number of interesting entries that deal in general with how the CAI acts in certain situations. The following entries are of particular interest to you in this case;
      • HLP_DISTANCE_MULTIPLIER_FOR_ENEMY
      • HLP_DISTANCE_MULTIPLIER_FOR_FRIEND
      • HLP_DISTANCE_MULTIPLIER_FOR_NEUTRAL
      • HLP_DISTANCE_MULTIPLIER_LAND_PATH
      • HLP_DISTANCE_MULTIPLIER_SEA_LAND_TRANSITION_PATH
      • HLP_DISTANCE_MULTIPLIER_SEA_PATH

    It could be sometimes difficult to tell exactly what these entries mean, but in this case they deal certainly with the distance multipliers that the CAI is willing to go to reach its desired target. Currently, in DeI these values are set pretty high what makes AI travel longer distances. Setting these values lower, what I did in my mod, should make them stay closer to their own territory and the surrounding regions.

    Regarding the compatibility, those kind of modifications wouldn't be compatible with mods that change CAI entries like for example Scipio's Realism and that's why they have been kept out of the AoH Lite pack. When it comes to Jake's Testudo, though, I think it should be compatible since Jake hasn't really worked much with CAI thus far, from what I know. Either way, it should be pretty easy to make some compatible modifications to this as you can basically use in this instance the table fragments. If you just point me to exactly which pack you want to use it with I can help you do that.

  11. #351
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    The steam links for the mod have been added for those who are interested.

    Check the download section in the opening post.

  12. #352

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~ View Post
    If you just point me to exactly which pack you want to use it with I can help you do that.
    I definitely want to use it with Testudo; I can extract the relevant parts into my personal submod. I would only need the two tables you mentioned and only need those specific entries? Would they be properly compatible, and would you recommend any changes to their values if I'm using them with Testudo? Thanks for the help!

    It's my favorite DeI submod between Testudo, Scipio's Realism, and Data Venia; I originally used DV, then Scipio's Realism, and now Testudo. Testudo has good modularity and customization, and Jake has some ambitious plans for future features and I agree with many of Jake's attitudes about how the player and campaign map should interact and Jake's style for creating features and mechanics. I find Testudo generally makes the campaign a little more difficult, but not too difficult, and makes it much more unpredictable and complex. I think Jake might be a bit of a scripting wizard too. But I'm the type of person who sees many details and pieces of various DeI submods over the years and I try my best to customize and combine them and make them compatible; I use your AoH Lite pack with Testudo and I still use some things from Data Venia and Scipio's Realism in my own personal submod alongside Testudo, and I do my best to make sure it's all compatible and works together well.

  13. #353
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    I think Jake might be a bit of a scripting wizard too
    luckilly I'm not, my job is completely different and I barely know what's inside my pc box, to make an example I discovered the difference betwen an HD and a SSD 1 month ago... I've begun scripting years ago for TATW then I slowly moved to DeI.
    The only actual reason why I started scripting is 'cause it's the only way to do what I want to do, as a modding hobby, I mean.
    I spent a lot of hours for being capable of understanding the logic behind lua and, luckilly, I was helped by another guy (ivanpera) to overcome the hardest points. At the end, you know what? Scripting (at this level) is just applying the scientifical logic you learn during highschool.It isn't hard at all (not considering complex system like pop and supply).

  14. #354

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Seleukos, those are some well-thought ideas you have used for CAI. Congrats.
    I think the potential to make late game really challenging for Player lies in modding of this type aspects of CAI and not in the spawning of AI armies.

    I would like you to comment next ideas and suggestion. The problem is not exactly lies in a late game challenge but in the moment when factions let Player to grow big without any of major consequences for it. I don't think penalties per Imperium level are making things harder as you can overcome those limitations by diplomacy and also Imperium is not elegant solution. It would be great if AI factions would have some "awareness" of who is growing fast and who is to be threat for them no matter if they are friendly to each other in the current situation. The script I eagerly would like to see is AI factions making military alliances as Player grow big around them and potentially threaten the lands they consider to be their area of influence.

    I also still think there is big untapped potential lies in faction's reputation modifier. First of all, AI is set to forget and forgive too fast and I think it should take much longer to overcome "bad behavior". And once someone has bad reputation it is a time when AI can feel free to betray or invade those factions as they will have some kind of "claim" of why they doing it. So this could be tied to a lot custom dilemmas which can influence faction image in the world arena with all possible consequences (but I guess it is more of Jake's area of influence)

  15. #355

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    I think Jake might be a bit of a scripting wizard too
    luckilly I'm not, my job is completely different and I barely know what's inside my pc box, to make an example I discovered the difference betwen an HD and a SSD 1 month ago... I've begun scripting years ago for TATW then I slowly moved to DeI.
    The only actual reason why I started scripting is 'cause it's the only way to do what I want to do, as a modding hobby, I mean.
    I spent a lot of hours for being capable of understanding the logic behind lua and, luckilly, I was helped by another guy (ivanpera) to overcome the hardest points. At the end, you know what? Scripting (at this level) is just applying the scientifical logic you learn during highschool.It isn't hard at all (not considering complex system like pop and supply).
    It's all relative Jake; you know far more than I do and the things you do to DeI's already good campaign are simply amazing. But you're right, basic formal logic is not the most difficult of things; I just wish it was properly taught to everyone in American high schools...

    Although I will say, in your defense, understanding the formal logic of software programming is very different from understanding the physics/chemistry of how hardware functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vardano View Post
    Seleukos, those are some well-thought ideas you have used for CAI. Congrats.
    I think the potential to make late game really challenging for Player lies in modding of this type aspects of CAI and not in the spawning of AI armies.

    I would like you to comment next ideas and suggestion. The problem is not exactly lies in a late game challenge but in the moment when factions let Player to grow big without any of major consequences for it. I don't think penalties per Imperium level are making things harder as you can overcome those limitations by diplomacy and also Imperium is not elegant solution. It would be great if AI factions would have some "awareness" of who is growing fast and who is to be threat for them no matter if they are friendly to each other in the current situation. The script I eagerly would like to see is AI factions making military alliances as Player grow big around them and potentially threaten the lands they consider to be their area of influence.

    I also still think there is big untapped potential lies in faction's reputation modifier. First of all, AI is set to forget and forgive too fast and I think it should take much longer to overcome "bad behavior". And once someone has bad reputation it is a time when AI can feel free to betray or invade those factions as they will have some kind of "claim" of why they doing it. So this could be tied to a lot custom dilemmas which can influence faction image in the world arena with all possible consequences (but I guess it is more of Jake's area of influence)
    I would recommend you look into using Jake's Testudo submod for DeI, if you don't already (I keep advertising it...); it helps assuage many of the symptoms you mention, but won't necessarily cure the disease.

    You speak of factions being wary of the player as they expand quickly and threaten more lands, and that makes me wonder if modders could do something with the negative diplomatic affect of "Expansionism". I'm reminded of the "Realm Divide" mechanic from Shogun 2, even if that wasn't a perfectly implemented system. Someone with more knowledge and experience than myself could probably answer that better...

    I do believe Testudo has more significant, lasting negative effects for "bad behavior". Either way, it should be an easy enough thing to edit if you aren't afraid of using rpfm and crunching into the game's database tables. And I certainly agree, Jake has done many interesting things with dilemma's and scripts...and more to come!

    I've seen some very creative and unexpected solutions lead to improved AI behavior; the DeI team and DeI submodders simply need to keep up hope and creativity!
    Last edited by Aureliae; March 23, 2020 at 05:13 AM.

  16. #356
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    CAI: sadly, it is scarcely moddable. Basically, you can mod the dice roll weights of the extremely CAI complex system CA built, which is 99% hardcoded. Or you can intervene by limiting some parts, like AoH and DIGS did

    elegant solution:
    yes, you could build something via virtual points so to have a sort of added system that will interact with the vanilla one

    reputation :
    mmhh, I think it is pretty not moddable, surely it isn't via script. Maybe you could just change turn thresholds somewhere. You can't change mechanics behind it

    dilemmas: dilemmas/incidents are petty rigid. For example you can't interact with script through dil/inc outcomes and the possibility you have for controlloning inc/dil via script is pretty weak. There could be some workarounds which involve UI editing, adding new buttons which will act as a sort of "choice makers"
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; March 23, 2020 at 07:15 AM.

  17. #357

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Aureliae, I'm pretty sure I play Testudo from its first iterations. It is the best submod, I have thousands hours spent in DEI but can't play it anymore without Testudo, Jake is godsend.

  18. #358
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Quote Originally Posted by Aureliae View Post
    I definitely want to use it with Testudo; I can extract the relevant parts into my personal submod. I would only need the two tables you mentioned and only need those specific entries? Would they be properly compatible, and would you recommend any changes to their values if I'm using them with Testudo? Thanks for the help!


    It might be that With Testudo you can use the whole CAI-related part of my mod. Like I said, you just need to show me exactly which packs you are going to use in your campaign. I know Testudo is modular, so I can't be sure exactly which modules you want to use unless you've shown them to me. I can help you then with extracting the relevant parts.
    Last edited by ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~; March 24, 2020 at 02:40 AM.

  19. #359

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    really like what you've done here, especially with regards to the satrapies. they were such immersion and gameplay breaking nuisance in vanilla. thanks for sharing and keep it up

  20. #360

    Default Re: [Submod] Age of Hellenism for DEI

    Like everyone else, I'm stuck indoors due to Covid-19, so I finally gave this a try. I'm very impressed! The Hellenic factions are very tough now. Playing as the Ardiaei, the Antigonids are still alive at turn 50; I've never seen them survive past turn 20. Syracuse is winning its war against Carthage and claimed the whole of Sicily.

    I'm not sure how you did it, but the AI ACTUALLY RESPECTS MY BORDERS! Often, when they're at war with a faction across from me, the AI will just march it's armies through my lands without hesitation and eat up all my food. But to my shock, this no longer happens. Macedon and Athens are at war, but I own the region that separates them (Larissa). None of them attempted to cross into my lands, and Athens actually attempted an amphibious land AROUND my territory to get at Pella.

    This quarantine just got a lot less boring!

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