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Thread: General model dug in ground

  1. #1
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default General model dug in ground

    The content of this thread is not conclusive and actually confusing.
    An adequate tutorial with solutions about this matter can be found clicking here.



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    It happens with all balrog .modeldb available entry of balrog present in TATW 3.2

    It also get slender arms.

    As you can see in the image, the bodyguard works well with the same model entry from .modeldb.



    As I got to understand, the general model does not necessarely share the animation from the bodyguards, it can be independet.
    Last edited by leo.civil.uefs; November 22, 2019 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Correct, the general's model will require the same animation as the body guard in the modelDB file. His battle model is assigned via descr_characters, there is the scripted ability to change the battle model for the faction leader and heir (named character).

    Which puts you otherwise in a bit of a binder for the general's model - that same battle model will be used for other units as well. Not much of a problem if the balrog is classified as elephant and that faction has no other elephants, the mount animations for soldiers are split up: horse, camel and elephant:

    Code:
    4 
    4 None 
    14 MTW2_Swordsman 0 
    2 
    18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 
    14 fs_test_shield 0 
    5 Horse 
    13 MTW2_HR_Sword 0 
    2 
    18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 
    14 fs_test_shield 0 
    5 Camel 
    13 MTW2_CR_Sword 0 
    2 
    18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 
    14 fs_test_shield 0 
    8 Elephant 
    18 MTW2_Elephant_Crew 0 
    2 
    18 MTW2_Sword_Primary 
    14 fs_test_shield 0 
    16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002
    Caution - if that general's battle model is universal then it's best to make a copy and rename it, eg [model]_balrog, and then change the elephant animation sequence to the balrog's sequence. Don't forget to increase the model count at the top of the modelDB file and change the reference in the descr_characters file.
    Last edited by Gigantus; December 29, 2018 at 04:27 AM.



  3. #3
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Thanks Gigantus

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    that same battle model will be used for other units as well
    I dont think I need to worry about this since this general unit (among many others) were already implemented in TATW and they vahe been Always unique, working as heroes whose model will only show for them.

  4. #4
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    You might be mixing up the strat model variants with the actual battle model:

    Code:
    type            named character
    
    
    actions            moving_normal, moving_quickmarch, garrison, assault, attack, besiege, entrench, ambush, diplomacy, bribe, exchange, building_fort, building_watchtower
    wage_base        1
    starting_action_points    80
    
    
    faction            aragon
    dictionary        2
    strat_model        new_han_general         ; 0 = named character
    strat_model        han_FH                     ; 1 = heir
    strat_model        han_FL                     ; 2 = faction leader
    battle_model    hangeneral
    battle_equip    gladius, chainmail shirt helmet and rectangular shield



  5. #5
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    You might be mixing up the strat model variants with the actual battle model:

    Code:
    type            named character
    
    
    actions            moving_normal, moving_quickmarch, garrison, assault, attack, besiege, entrench, ambush, diplomacy, bribe, exchange, building_fort, building_watchtower
    wage_base        1
    starting_action_points    80
    
    
    faction            aragon
    dictionary        2
    strat_model        new_han_general         ; 0 = named character
    strat_model        han_FH                     ; 1 = heir
    strat_model        han_FL                     ; 2 = faction leader
    battle_model    hangeneral
    battle_equip    gladius, chainmail shirt helmet and rectangular shield
    Is this comment related to my first post of this thread or second one?

  6. #6
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    #3 - you can only have only one battle model for a general but 10 strat models.

    Edit: if the balrog unit is spawned (descr_strat or script) with a named character then you won't have a problem obviously as you can define a battle model there.
    Last edited by Gigantus; December 29, 2018 at 06:44 AM.



  7. #7
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Well if I change the battle_model entry in descr_character to balrog, every general of that faction will be a balrog in battle. Just checked it.

    Let me see if I get

    So since I can only have 1 battle model for generals, I must keep the generic one.

    However, the game allows me to change the battle model specificaly for named characters, like TATW does a lot.
    That means if I spawn a general via script with a named character and a specific battle model the game will load its specific model in battle, despite the generic ones for the rest of the faction.

    Ok that works pretty well. I checked it.

    But the only way I found to fiz the problem presented in the first post of this thread is changing the battle model entry in descr_character to balrog.
    It seems like there is something related to animation with this file. No matter if I choose the same animation for both bodyguard and general in modelsdb, the problem remains.





  8. #8
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    I just checked Boromir (a custom general). He has am animation different from his bodyguards.
    Officers can also have different animations from the rest of the men in the unit.

    So its a mystery for me.

  9. #9
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    From the pic in post #1 I assumed that the balrog model requires a custom animation to 'lift' it to the correct height, hence my suggestion.

    The 'soldier' entry in a unit's EDU entry determines which animation gets used, regardless of the model entry in the 'armour_ug_models' line. It's unlikely the two entries vary, but it's possible.
    Eg - if the soldier line says 'wombat' and the armour_ug line says 'balrog' then the balrog model will use the wombat animation.

    All of which will not help you with a general's battle model as it is generic to the faction (you are stuck with the battle model), you can only try to make sure that the balrog unit is not the leading unit in an army without a named character, that way it will not get assigned a 'general'. Otherwise you are stuck with spawned named characters and their battlemodel assignments.



  10. #10
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    From the pic in post #1 I assumed that the balrog model requires a custom animation to 'lift' it to the correct height, hence my suggestion.

    The 'soldier' entry in a unit's EDU entry determines which animation gets used, regardless of the model entry in the 'armour_ug_models' line. It's unlikely the two entries vary, but it's possible.
    Eg - if the soldier line says 'wombat' and the armour_ug line says 'balrog' then the balrog model will use the wombat animation.


    Tried all possibilities with the soldier line, no results.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    All of which will not help you with a general's battle model as it is generic to the faction (you are stuck with the battle model), you can only try to make sure that the balrog unit is not the leading unit in an army without a named character, that way it will not get assigned a 'general'. Otherwise you are stuck with spawned named characters and their battlemodel assignments.
    sorry could you explain in other words? I dont get it.

  11. #11
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Explain: in an army without a named character the first unit will get the generic captain attached in battle. To avoid the balrog unit having that captain unit simply make sure it is no the first unit in the stack.



  12. #12
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    I got it now.

    Though this is not exacly related to the main doubt of this post. Or is it? Maybe I'm just too tired.

  13. #13
    Araval's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    You can't have the general's model properly be a balrog unless you make the generic general of that faction also a model that uses the balrog animations. In your pic the game made the balrog use the regular unit animations made for a small skeleton.

    In FRoGS to have Beorn and Grimbeorn of Vale of Anduin two-handed axe animations, I had to make the generic general also use the two-handed axeman animations. https://i.imgur.com/aud1gTO.jpg

  14. #14
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Araval View Post
    You can't have the general's model properly be a balrog unless you make the generic general of that faction also a model that uses the balrog animations.
    Quick, precise, clear answer.
    Thanks!


    Thank you also Gigantus!

  15. #15
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Araval View Post
    You can't have the general's model properly be a balrog unless you make the generic general of that faction also a model that uses the balrog animations. In your pic the game made the balrog use the regular unit animations made for a small skeleton.
    So you're basically saying we can only have one animation for battle models of generals of each faction, hence these animations are, as we use to say, faction specific, right?


    The idea I have in mind is:


    In TATW 3.2 (as well as in my submod), sauron is spawned to england (mordor), as a general.
    but his unit is an elephant unit, and it still loads 3 saurons instead of one. (a engine limitation that we cant fix)


    I want to make him a normal troll unit, so it will load sauron and its custom battle model, and some trolls as bodyguards.


    the problem is, you can have only 1 animation for generals for each faction, this means that if I do like I said, the game will not load a troll animation for sauron as a general but actually the generic animation for that faction (mordor), wich is as small/normal man animation, not a troll one, and this will obviously mess the model.


    Thats why I want to:
    set the general's animation for timurids as troll one.
    spawn sauron for timurids, not for england (mordor)
    then instantly give this unit to mordor, and voila, you have sauron as a general in a troll unit with proper animation
    Last edited by leo.civil.uefs; November 19, 2019 at 09:38 PM.

  16. #16
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Animation entries for captains are linked to the mount they use, default captain models have animations for all mounts for that reason in addition to a infantry (none) entry.

    I am however not seeing your problem as custom battle models (via spawn, bodyguard is a separate line) will solve your issue. In your case it's the body guard line that will spawn multiple saurons, if used as battlemodel entry and trolls as BG you will have a single sauron leading a troll bodyguard



  17. #17
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    A friend just tested it and it does not work.
    No matter if you assigned a custom animation for a general unit that comes from another faction, as soon as the script transfers the unit to the new faction, the game automatically assigns the general's animation of that new faction to the unit.

  18. #18
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    That's normal as custom battle models (and their animations) are not shared between factions, only body guards and units - send the general off map after the transfer and then respawn him again with the custom model and the desired body guard\army.



  19. #19
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    I've edited the first post with a link for another thread.

    Any moderator please close this thread. Its confusing and not conclusive.

  20. #20
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: General model dug in ground

    Quote Originally Posted by leo.civil.uefs View Post
    I've edited the first post with a link for another thread.

    Any moderator please close this thread. Its confusing and not conclusive.
    Request granted. Feel free to PM me or one of the other moderators if you want to reopen this thread. Please use the link in the quote below.

    Quote Originally Posted by leo.civil.uefs View Post
    The content of this thread is not conclusive and actually confusing.
    An adequate tutorial with solutions about this matter can be found clicking here.
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