[Decision] Move the Curia

[PikeStance]

I dont know how it works in the USA but here you would register the site as an NGO and be tax exempt up to 15.000 profit, so what you essentially do is spend everything you are donated before the end of the year.

If the site was in the EU I would suggest registering it as such and reforging the Constitution into a Statute and funnel funding into a common TWC NGO account.

I would suggest a core group be set up where the Curia and Hex form a working group to draw up objectives with estimated costs, so if an upgrade costs 1500 Euros, a go fund me can be set up where the community contributes financially.

The Community cant expect GeD, who saved TWC from being killed, to keep paying for TWC.

It is in the US. In Q&S there is an old thread that explained the situation and when he said he no longer accepting donations.
This is a bit of a separate issue. I could be possible to set-up a situation where you can create a "shareholder" situation for those that "donate" to the site. They could form a board that looks after the financial health and viability of the site. Ironically, I suggested in some time ago, and the idea was not liked either. Anyway, the Curia would still function as it does, but the implementation of any proposal would have passed any financial issues as well.

[StealthFox]

I don't remember there being any issues with donations. In fact the donation button is still live at the bottom of each page, so people should not be deterred from monetarily donating to the site.

But we are veering off topic, let's try and focus back on the idea of moving the Curia. I think the idea makes more sense of you're also opening up posting in the Prothalamos, but I don't see much reason to make a move otherwise.

[Leonardo]

I think the idea makes more sense of you're also opening up posting in the Prothalamos, but I don't see much reason to make a move otherwise.

I think that would be similiar to what Hader had in his Curia Overhaul Order 66 proposal.

[PikeStance]

Yeah, I did search up to page 36 and this is the closest I can find. I must stand corrected until I can find where he wrote about the issues had had with donations.

This discussion has made an interesting turn and I have created this discussion here.

[Aexodus]

The curia works with the administration, it is not an executive arm in of itself, therefore why place it inside the admin forum?

opposed

[PikeStance]

. I think the idea makes more sense of you're also opening up posting in the Prothalamos, but I don't see much reason to make a move otherwise.

How exactly does it "make more sense?" The Curia wasn't "open" when it was originally in the admin forum and it has not been open since it was moved out.

The curia works with the administration, it is not an executive arm in of itself, therefore why place it inside the admin forum?

No, the Curia does not work with the Administration, the staff works with the administration. Citizens are an extension of the site which is why they are given a badge like staff and admin. There are no expectations that any citizen would do anything related to staff work on the site unless that is how they became a citizen. Regardless, participation beyond the area of contribution is a choice, not a duty of citizenship.

[StealthFox]

How exactly does it "make more sense?" The Curia wasn't "open" when it was originally in the admin forum and it has not been open since it was moved out.

The Capitol is currently a citizen only area; the Administrative fora are open to all. Thus, it would make more sense to move the Curia if at least part of it (the Prothalamos) was also open to all.

[Aexodus]

Sorry I don’t think I was totally clear, I just meant that the Curia makes what are ultimately recommendations to the Admin, which then chooses to act on them, or sometimes not.

[PikeStance]

Sorry I don’t think I was totally clear, I just meant that the Curia makes what are ultimately recommendations to the Admin, which then chooses to act on them, or sometimes not.

This is a different point.
Citizens were originally members recognized BY the administration who have contributed to the site. As a reward for activity, the admin created the "Curia" and encourage citizens to make those recommendations. When the system is done right, it would be counterproductive for admin not to implement any suggestions passed by the citizenry. So when you stated it was not an "executive arm," it never was, nor intended to be. It is not in the sites interest to discourage feedback. As it is, citizens generally do not ake recommendations, ironically, for the statement, you made above.

[Iskar]

I don't think we can ascertain why citizens make few recommendations in the Curia. Considering that many citizens are staffers I daresay we cannot even say they make few recommendations at all. The much more probable scenario is that they simply make these recommendations though staff channels to which you do not have access. I would therefore recommend caution when making unsupported inferences based on incomplete data.

[Sir Adrian]

I am with SF here. The only sections of the capitol which are not publicly accessible are the various hidden forums. If you want to move the Curia you need to either make it public - open t5he prothalamos - or hidden. A private but publicly visible forum in the Admin, well, that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

[PikeStance]

I don't think we can ascertain why citizens make few recommendations in the Curia. Considering that many citizens are staffers I daresay we cannot even say they make few recommendations at all. The much more probable scenario is that they simply make these recommendations though staff channels to which you do not have access. I would therefore recommend caution when making unsupported inferences based on incomplete data.

Most citizens are definitely NOT staffers. Do you really need me to demonstrate that very few citizens actually recommend anything? I think the answer is obvious. Moreover, participation had dwindled to less than 20 (at times) in the Curia. If you are arguing that this has always been the case, then that would be a foolish assertion. Take off the blinders Iskar.

The Capitol is currently a citizen only area; the Administrative fora are open to all. Thus, it would make more sense to move the Curia if at least part of it (the Prothalamos) was also open to all.

I am with SF here. The only sections of the capitol which are not publicly accessible are the various hidden forums. If you want to move the Curia you need to either make it public - open t5he prothalamos - or hidden. A private but publicly visible forum in the Admin, well, that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

As I already stated in the OP and countless times in this thread, the Curia was already in the administrative forum and without any issues at all. You are both making a false inconsistency for reasons I cannot begin to follow.

[Iskar]

Most citizens are definitely NOT staffers. Do you really need me to demonstrate that very few citizens actually recommend anything?

Since you made that claim, if you can please demonstrate it - with the limitations to your possible knowledge I mentioned accounted for. I doubt you can.
I won't address the subsequent strawman.

[PikeStance]

Since you made that claim, if you can please demonstrate it - with the limitations to your possible knowledge I mentioned accounted for. I doubt you can.
I won't address the subsequent strawman.

I was responding to this statement;

I don't think we can ascertain why citizens make few recommendations in the Curia. Considering that many citizens are staffers I daresay we cannot even say they make few recommendations at all. The much more probable scenario is that they simply make these recommendations though staff channels to which you do not have access. I would therefore recommend caution when making unsupported inferences based on incomplete data.

I never made any claim as to the reason why citizens make recommendations or not. The simple fact is that most do not. I think you are conflating changes to the site with the functioning of branches of staff. I would fully expect that staffers would make recommendations on how best to fulfill their responsibilities. Most of these would be not "require" any formal changes if it is already within the remit of that branch to do so. This being said there is a difference between making recommendations within an organization and recommendation that the customer (users of the site) would make. The latter is what would guide the site in providing services that they demand in want. This is the are I am the most concern with.

As far as the issue of whether or not most citizens are staff members, well, at present, I would think not. If you consider the entirety of a members activity on the site, then that would be difficult to ascertain. A citizen might be a staffer for a year, but if they were active for 6 years, then that is hardly representative. As I mentioned above, it is a moot point since it isn't what I am most concern with.

[PikeStance]

The Consul can archive this proposal. (it is substantially similar to what was recently passed).