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Thread: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

  1. #1

    Default Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    I found this insulting comment made on another forum by a Russian nationalist (obviously Anti-Western and Anti-Polish one) to be quite accurate. It striked me as demonstrating a great degree of understading of the history of the region, and of internal differences between various countries in Eastern Europe. Westerners always show poor understanding of such nuances, and this is probably the main reason why their politicians are, lately, so impotent when trying to deal with our politicians. They approach countries like Hungary and Poland in the same way as they approach countries like Ukraine, Romania and Latvia, which is doomed to failure due to these nuances that Russians understand but Westerners apparently don't. Westerners generally imagine entire Eastern Europe and East-Central Europe as a monolithic "Post-Colonial region", inhabited by people with "post-colonial mentality". While the whole region was indeed affected by policies of foreign Empires in the last few centuries, the degree and nature of this influence varied. And of key importance is also the last 1000 years of history, not just the last 200 or 300 years. Russia (this goes without saying) as well as Hungary and Poland, and to a bit lesser degree also Lithuania and Czechia, are countries with long history of statehood, nationhood, and countries with some imperial past of their own (we were not just the oppressed ones, we were also the expansionists like Westerners, just on a smaller scale). Romanians, Ukrainians or Latvians, on the other hand, have been under foreign rule for a much longer time. However, Western politicians think that everyone in the region was like the latter three groups, and this is why their approach towards Hungary or Poland fails. Here comes the comment by that Russian nationalist, beware because you will find it offensive:

    They guy was using the derogatory word "Polack(s)" so I'm quoting it in the same form:

    Quote:

    "Majority of Romanians are self-haters, while I have never met a single Polack who would bad mouth his/her own country. A Romanian follows everything western because he considers it superior to everything Romanian. A Polack also follows western trends, but only because it is currently fashionable. Polacks want to have all western luxuries, they claim to like English humor or some German customs, but they would never accept Polish subservience and obedience [to the West]. Generally Polacks do not view themselves as 'younger brothers' or 'mindless followers' [of the West], so with some change in local policies and in political parties in power, they can quickly become Anti-Western. On the other hand, Romanians lack any sense of national pride/patriotism, thus Westerners have them by the balls. Romanian nationalism exists, but it activates itself only when they need to blame somebody for some of their failures, in such situations Romanians unite in hatred against Gypsies, Hungarians, Jews, etc. Polacks view themselves and their country as Tier 1 people and country, while the West view them as a noname country and random people. Inability to handle such cognitive dissonance is the main reason of many of their problems in international politics. It is also the main reason of 'Polan Stronk' identity because permabutthurt caused by the lack of appreciation by Westerners became an integral part of their life. They would agree to become soulless atheist morally degenerate Westerners only as equal partners and on equal terms, which is never going to happen because Westerners look down on them. Their politicians and thus their state propaganda allied with the West only for economical reasons. Non pro-western groups of interests have no access to massess because they lack resourses that pro-western groups of interests have. But buttkissing from their politicians does not reflect perception of the majority of Poles. If the West declines and gets weakened, Poland will say farewell to them with no regrets."

    / End of quote.

    ^^^
    This description also applies to Hungary and Czechs (the latter also have strong pride and patriotism, but are much less vocal about it to not damage their reputation as non-nationalistic liberals).

    The last sentence: "if the West declines and gets weakened, Poland [and Czechs, and Hungary] will say farewell to them with no regrets" explains what Westerners recently call "lack of solidarity" from East-Central European countries during the Migration Crisis (Refugee Crisis). Western media propaganda attacks against Hungary, Poland etc. have one main goal: to turn us into non-problematic, obedient, subservient "Romanians". But the root of the problem is precisely this patronizing approach by Western politicians and Western media to people who can't stand such treatment, and people who do not blindly admire the West (as this Russian explained - Poles, Hungarians and Czechs alligned themselves with the West mainly for economic reasons, and in defence against Russian imperialism - but we are not like the pro-western part of Ukrainians or Romanians mentioned above, who suffer from severe cases of post-colonial mentality). Some nations are used to foreign authorities - such as Brussels - telling them what to do. Others, like Hungarians or Poles, can only agree to cooperate as equal partners.

    Basically this comes down to distinction between "plebeian" (Romania, Ukraine, Latvia, etc.) vs. "patrician-plebeian" (Russia, Hungary, Poland, Czechs) traditions of nationhood.

    The main goal of Anti-Hungarian etc. propaganda in the Western media, is to make us ashamed of our identity/heritage and force into obedience, like nations with weaker traditions of independence.

    This is going to backfire on the West, because like that Russian nationalist said - we are not strongly "emotionally attached" to Western Europe.

    We do not like Russia, but pragmatic choices are more important. Already before WW2 Czechs had an alliance with Soviet Russia, for example.

    Trump's America is also an alternative choice (as an ally) to Anti-Trump Western Europe.

    Moved from the Political Mudpit. ~Abdülmecid I
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; December 08, 2018 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Clarfication added.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    Quote Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
    "Majority of Romanians are self-haters, while I have never met a single Polack who would bad mouth his/her own country. A Romanian follows everything western because he considers it superior to everything Romanian.
    That's true. There are a lot of mindless idiots here who like to speak against their own country, and are doing this because Romanians are whiners and like to complain about everything (except about themselves). Also, the Romanian politician would not hesitate to speak against his country if his political agenda demands it.
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  3. #3
    Darios's Avatar Slava Darios!
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    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    Romanians generally frown upon their own cultural/political institutions and eagerly sign up for anything and everything the West presents to them in return for being allowed to sit in the back of the room with the other Western countries. Romanians also tend to sorta have this weird and arrogant sense of a perceived cultural superiority (in regards to its Hungarian and Slavic neighbors) due to its over-hyped "Latin character" and therefore has more of a right to be considered part of the West than its neighbors. It is starting to change though, especially as Romanians begin to vacation/travel less to Spain and Italy and more to neighboring countries such as Poland or Hungary. I have friends who returned from Budapest, Krakow, Prague, etc and were shocked as to why "the Slavs" have more things, better services, more tourism, more perceived wealth, cleaner and more beautiful cities than Romania. Part of the reason stems from Hungary and Poland once being former great empires and therefore have a tradition of better development, but there's the increasing understanding that the Visegrad countries tend to do a better job of standing up for themselves in the face of both the West and with Russia. The refugee crisis, issues with joining Schengen, and the recent political upheavals in both Brussels and in Bucharest are starting to make younger Romanians question their own society and place in the world.
    Under the Patronage of PikeStance


  4. #4
    Inkie's Avatar Mayonnaise
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    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    Quote Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
    I found this insulting comment made on another forum by a Russian nationalist (obviously Anti-Western and Anti-Polish one) to be quite accurate. It striked me as demonstrating a great degree of understading of the history of the region, and of internal differences between various countries in Eastern Europe. Westerners always show poor understanding of such nuances, and this is probably the main reason why their politicians are, lately, so impotent when trying to deal with our politicians. They approach countries like Hungary and Poland in the same way as they approach countries like Ukraine, Romania and Latvia, which is doomed to failure due to these nuances that Russians understand but Westerners apparently don't. Westerners generally imagine entire Eastern Europe and East-Central Europe as a monolithic "Post-Colonial region", inhabited by people with "post-colonial mentality". While the whole region was indeed affected by policies of foreign Empires in the last few centuries, the degree and nature of this influence varied. And of key importance is also the last 1000 years of history, not just the last 200 or 300 years. Russia (this goes without saying) as well as Hungary and Poland, and to a bit lesser degree also Lithuania and Czechia, are countries with long history of statehood, nationhood, and countries with some imperial past of their own (we were not just the oppressed ones, we were also the expansionists like Westerners, just on a smaller scale). Romanians, Ukrainians or Latvians, on the other hand, have been under foreign rule for a much longer time. However, Western politicians think that everyone in the region was like the latter three groups, and this is why their approach towards Hungary or Poland fails. Here comes the comment by that Russian nationalist, beware because you will find it offensive:

    They guy was using the derogatory word "Polack(s)" so I'm quoting it in the same form:

    Quote:

    "Majority of Romanians are self-haters, while I have never met a single Polack who would bad mouth his/her own country. A Romanian follows everything western because he considers it superior to everything Romanian. A Polack also follows western trends, but only because it is currently fashionable. Polacks want to have all western luxuries, they claim to like English humor or some German customs, but they would never accept Polish subservience and obedience [to the West]. Generally Polacks do not view themselves as 'younger brothers' or 'mindless followers' [of the West], so with some change in local policies and in political parties in power, they can quickly become Anti-Western. On the other hand, Romanians lack any sense of national pride/patriotism, thus Westerners have them by the balls. Romanian nationalism exists, but it activates itself only when they need to blame somebody for some of their failures, in such situations Romanians unite in hatred against Gypsies, Hungarians, Jews, etc. Polacks view themselves and their country as Tier 1 people and country, while the West view them as a noname country and random people. Inability to handle such cognitive dissonance is the main reason of many of their problems in international politics. It is also the main reason of 'Polan Stronk' identity because permabutthurt caused by the lack of appreciation by Westerners became an integral part of their life. They would agree to become soulless atheist morally degenerate Westerners only as equal partners and on equal terms, which is never going to happen because Westerners look down on them. Their politicians and thus their state propaganda allied with the West only for economical reasons. Non pro-western groups of interests have no access to massess because they lack resourses that pro-western groups of interests have. But buttkissing from their politicians does not reflect perception of the majority of Poles. If the West declines and gets weakened, Poland will say farewell to them with no regrets."

    / End of quote.

    ^^^
    This description also applies to Hungary and Czechs (the latter also have strong pride and patriotism, but are much less vocal about it to not damage their reputation as non-nationalistic liberals).

    The last sentence: "if the West declines and gets weakened, Poland [and Czechs, and Hungary] will say farewell to them with no regrets" explains what Westerners recently call "lack of solidarity" from East-Central European countries during the Migration Crisis (Refugee Crisis). Western media propaganda attacks against Hungary, Poland etc. have one main goal: to turn us into non-problematic, obedient, subservient "Romanians". But the root of the problem is precisely this patronizing approach by Western politicians and Western media to people who can't stand such treatment, and people who do not blindly admire the West (as this Russian explained - Poles, Hungarians and Czechs alligned themselves with the West mainly for economic reasons, and in defence against Russian imperialism - but we are not like the pro-western part of Ukrainians or Romanians mentioned above, who suffer from severe cases of post-colonial mentality). Some nations are used to foreign authorities - such as Brussels - telling them what to do. Others, like Hungarians or Poles, can only agree to cooperate as equal partners.

    Basically this comes down to distinction between "plebeian" (Romania, Ukraine, Latvia, etc.) vs. "patrician-plebeian" (Russia, Hungary, Poland, Czechs) traditions of nationhood.

    The main goal of Anti-Hungarian etc. propaganda in the Western media, is to make us ashamed of our identity/heritage and force into obedience, like nations with weaker traditions of independence.

    This is going to backfire on the West, because like that Russian nationalist said - we are not strongly "emotionally attached" to Western Europe.

    We do not like Russia, but pragmatic choices are more important. Already before WW2 Czechs had an alliance with Soviet Russia, for example.

    Trump's America is also an alternative choice (as an ally) to Anti-Trump Western Europe.

    Moved from the Political Mudpit. ~Abdülmecid I
    This seems less like difficult self-confrontation and more like 'retreat into nationalism' mode.

    Speaking against your own country, rather than being the domain of 'mindless idiots', takes humility, perspective and often courage. It's by doing this that one evolves and matures rather than staying frozen in place. Simpletons with chips on their shoulder are the ones who most easily feel insecure and need to be told repeatedly ad nauseam that they and their 'kin' are unique, or great. It's facile and disingenuous to claim that people who are able to self-criticize are simply self-haters.

    I don't believe that there is a single country filled with people who actually 'hate themselves' as so many people claim nowadays. Take Japan for example, regarded by plenty of people as a country with low self-esteem which always copied Western ways and wants to be white. In my experience actually living here, I haven't spoken to a single Japanese person who doesn't say that they love Japan and are proud of being Japanese, yet many of those same people complain about how most Japanese 'have no pride' and 'hate themselves'. The alleged 'haters' seem to be some kind of invisible bogeyman, conjured up as an excuse why the country needs more nationalism and needs to shove its own head deeper up its own arse. What is more likely is that the vast majority of people here are afflicted with the "superiority/inferiority complex", which is what you get when you attribute too much importance to national identity as a determinant of character, and thus continuously compare your own country to others to the point of obsession. Just another vice of nationalism.

    As for the thread, TBH I don't remember reading/hearing many criticisms of the UK by non-Brits that are more insightful than those said by Brits themselves.


    Under the patronage of the formidable and lovely Narf.

    Proud patron of Char Aznable, Audacia, Lordsith, Frodo45127 and Doctor Shuu.

  5. #5
    LaMuerte's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    'The world's wealthiest failed state,' as it has come to be known, Belgium endured 589 days without a functioning elected government between June 2010 and December 2011 and remains a dysfunctional, linguistically divided waxworks of one federal and five regional-cultural parliaments.' - Terry Glavin

    People saying this clearly never visited a failed state, nor do they have real knowledge of Belgium's constitutional history.
    Last edited by LaMuerte; December 17, 2018 at 11:55 AM.

  6. #6
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    The worst and most convoluted identity crisis known to man.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  7. #7
    Habelo's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    "Yes Sven, go home and watch your daughter get raped by Muhammed"

    Gets me everytime, please stop the innuendo that we swedes are some cucked scum who enjoy rape.
    You have a certain mentality, a "you vs them" and i know it is hard to see, but it is only your imagination which makes up enemies everywhere. I haven't professed anything but being neutral so why Do you feel the need to defend yourself from me?. Truly What are you defending? when there is nobody attacking?

  8. #8
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    "harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate"
    Xenophobic. Harsh, but not really offensive.

  9. #9
    Ukiah's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Post harsh or offensive but perhaps accurate political comments made by foreigners about your country

    Quote Originally Posted by Inkie View Post
    I don't believe that there is a single country filled with people who actually 'hate themselves' as so many people claim nowadays. Take Japan for example, regarded by plenty of people as a country with low self-esteem which always copied Western ways and wants to be white.
    I'm not aware of anyone claiming this about the Japanese, including the ones who have never talked to a Japanese. I myself have met many Japanese in Japan and in the United States. I don't think they have low self-esteem either. I guess people tend to remember the negative comments more even if it's in the minority.

    @Domen123
    Don't worry. Most of the people in this world don't know much about Romania. They don't have much of an opinion about the Romanians.
    Last edited by Ukiah; December 19, 2018 at 06:29 PM.

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