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Thread: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

  1. #661
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonMaster View Post
    I watched the Legend of TW review.

    I think his criticisms are summed up like this

    "I don't like the music, Rome 1's music was better".
    "I don't have that much time and I want to blitzkrieg through the whole map".
    "Battles take way too long". (He's on VH so it's expected to last longer, the manual says that M difficulty is the more balanced choice)
    "Scripts are annoying and pulling stacks out of nowhere is BS"
    "Settlements take way too long to stabilise"
    "Gameplay and aesthetics comes first before historical accuracy'
    "You don't get too much out of your buildings to get where you want"
    "The game doesn't provide you with enough rewards to incentivize the player"
    "Rebels are way too strong"
    "Recruitment is way too slow"
    That's pretty much it. Almost everything about the mod is contrary to his preferred playstyle. Which is fine, but I take issue with him claiming that just because he doesn't like a design choice, that means it's "bad".

    Quote Originally Posted by hlidskjalf View Post
    Good thing he's not influencing the development process
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    I couldn't even make it through the first ten minutes of his video. People actually watch this stuff? I'd rather just play the game than waste six hours watching some guy flail around, not understanding the mechanics of the game or for that matter the time period and cultures involved.
    Unfortunately, he's deemed an opinion leader, and some people might even base their decision of whether or not they try out the mod on what he says. Thus it isn't something we can simply ignore. Plus I just dislike people bad-mouthing the mod when their criticisms aren't even accurate. Dislike all you want, just do it from a position of knowledge.

  2. #662
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    I've been enjoying trying out this mod. I'm only on roughly turn 20 as the Romans (first campaign... decided to go easy on myself :p) and i've still learned a ton of stuff. I've never been interested in history before year 0, but this mod really has actually taught me a lot. It's given me an incentive to read some older history, which honestly I did not expect. I'm also enjoying the slow pace and slow expansion, both things i've long wanted in a mod. I've always felt that, even in SS 6.4, expansion could be done wayyy to quickly. I once reforged the Roman Empire as the Romans and that took me about 120 turns... and it seems that this mod has improved that. Really enjoying this mod so far .

    However, having said that, I couldn't help but notice the current Legend discussion. Just wanted to add one of his quotes from the mod review video; "In summary: Is this a good mod? Absolutely. It is an amazing mod. The modders set out with an ambitious goal, and they achieved it." Just because he doesn't enjoy this mod, doesn't mean he think it's a bad mod.
    Anyways, controversy aside, i'm off to continue my campaign.

  3. #663

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    If people want to talk about the LTW mod review, maybe create a separate thread?

    Anyways, should look out if there's an spike in download numbers, "sometimes" controversy creates attention

    About the 1st Barcid reforms, were they supposed to unlock the mail upgrade for the Liby-phoen infantry and libyan skirmishers?

  4. #664
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiuga View Post

    About the 1st Barcid reforms, were they supposed to unlock the mail upgrade for the Liby-phoen infantry and libyan skirmishers?
    No, the first reform is all about the Iberian influences with the shield, helmet, sword and style of fighting improvement while the second reform is all about the mail armour improvement.

  5. #665

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Then, if you haven't catch it yet, that needs a fix because they got the unlock after the first barcid reform (237bc).

    Also, I think I heard Quintus saying that the "local colonies" building three was going to have a review, but they are supposed to have progression in terms of recruitment yes? Because playing has carthage in Sardin and Korsin the recruitment from the second lvl of the local colonies building changes some units from the recruitment pool.

  6. #666
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by frotxy View Post
    However, having said that, I couldn't help but notice the current Legend discussion. Just wanted to add one of his quotes from the mod review video; "In summary: Is this a good mod? Absolutely. It is an amazing mod. The modders set out with an ambitious goal, and they achieved it." Just because he doesn't enjoy this mod, doesn't mean he think it's a bad mod.
    Anyways, controversy aside, i'm off to continue my campaign.
    Fair enough, I was on the second livestream for several hours, but haven't had a chance to listen to the review yet. Been out all day (Kennedy Space Centre, incidentally, I'm on holiday).

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiuga View Post
    Then, if you haven't catch it yet, that needs a fix because they got the unlock after the first barcid reform (237bc).

    Also, I think I heard Quintus saying that the "local colonies" building three was going to have a review, but they are supposed to have progression in terms of recruitment yes? Because playing has carthage in Sardin and Korsin the recruitment from the second lvl of the local colonies building changes some units from the recruitment pool.
    I fixed some mistyped event_counter names a short while ago, they might have been amongst those fixed.

    The Foreign Colony has been completely re-written in the upcoming patch. One of the new features of it is that some places stop upgrading altogether, rather than pools not changing in size (and letting you waste money on an upgrade that doesn't give anything additional).

  7. #667
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Does anyone know where I could find Mantaprey/Chap's account so I can give some rep for the lovely player guide? It mentions it in the player guide post.

  8. #668

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Is the almost complete lack of charge bonuses for infantry intentional?

  9. #669
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Danius View Post
    Is the almost complete lack of charge bonuses for infantry intentional?
    It's a hardcoded problem with med 2 UI. This only occurs in infantry whith a throwable before they attack. The charge value of the throwable weapon (i.e. a Pilum) is shown which would be 0 but is displayed as 1 instead. Charge values for non-missile units like Hoplites are shown accurately. Most infantry does actually have a reasonable amount of charge.

  10. #670
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I've also have a question: the Altron Uoglanmens (school lvl 1) for Pritanoi costs 100 upkeep. However, the higher levels (lvl 2 and lvl 3) don't cost anything but they provide happiness. Additionally, the lvl 3 requires Large City that seems not possible to be built by Pritanoi (the can just build Katri to upgrade from Large Town to City).
    Is it intended?
    Any comments on this? I've got second thought - does it have anything to do with the 4 famous nemetonoi of the Celtic world?
    BTW, fyi: I'm constantly updating my entry on the Pritanoi issues in the subforum, I hope it'd help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danius View Post
    Is the almost complete lack of charge bonuses for infantry intentional?
    The Extended Unit Descriptions submod is useful to learn the true charge values.

  11. #671

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Unfortunately, he's deemed an opinion leader, and some people might even base their decision of whether or not they try out the mod on what he says. Thus it isn't something we can simply ignore. Plus I just dislike people bad-mouthing the mod when their criticisms aren't even accurate. Dislike all you want, just do it from a position of knowledge.
    indeed. he shoots himself in the foot by simply not reading/ignoring instructions and playing on higher than recommended difficulties, all of which only make the experience even more frustrating for him.

    tbh, i was very surprised to see him even trying to give EBII a go. from one or two videos ive seen, his got a very casual playing style. so i will give Legend credit for attempting. lots of his feedback is subjective due to again, differing playing preferences from what EB tries to deliver. so things like buildings not giving large enough bonuses and slow pace of campaigns etc can be largely explained away by the fact that its simply in line with the kind of campaign EB is meant to offer. for blitz and a quickie look for other mods. much of his feedback is subjective (and stated as such) but with a caveat that it may closely represent the views of what i is perhaps a sizable chunk of TW fanbase who are 'casual' players too. so does EB want to attract some of that crowd? as a mod that imho seeks to popularise and promote history, it probably should.

    Legend's dislike of the features that do not flow with his playing style aside, there were some interesting things that he said. off the top of my head:
    • the observation that you do not feel the heat of competing against other AI factions. they are too feeble due to rebels etc
    • lack of general 'energy' throughout campaigns and in battles.
    • accessibility of the mod as a whole. it does sometimes strike me that mod is tilting into a direction when it is a selected few that create it for a group of initiates. thats just my opinion but there is a sense of 'living in a bubble' (though that is perhaps expected in any project). descriptions are a good example of it. too long and designations and terms used often presuppose knowledge and understanding of the topics at hand. it sometimes reads as academics writing for other academics and seems to rely on either prior knowledge or players googling specific terms and definitions (especially Greek and Latin), oftentimes failing to unpack them there and then. the way i see it, EB is a mod but also an 'educational project' and clarity and ease of assimilation of whats on offer should be prioritised imho.
    • not utilising some of the features offered by M2TW (forts, agent types?)


    overall, Legend provides an interesting look from outside in, something that isnt offered often. would be interesting to hear form Darren as he usually provides a well structured and detailed overviews but i dont think that he's been around long enough to appreciate the EB and its vision and legacy as a whole, unfortunately.

  12. #672

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    • accessibility of the mod as a whole. it does sometimes strike me that mod is tilting into a direction when it is a selected few that create it for a group of initiates. thats just my opinion but there is a sense of 'living in a bubble' (though that is perhaps expected in any project). descriptions are a good example of it. too long and designations and terms used often presuppose knowledge and understanding of the topics at hand. it sometimes reads as academics writing for other academics and seems to rely on either prior knowledge or players googling specific terms and definitions (especially Greek and Latin), oftentimes failing to unpack them there and then. the way i see it, EB is a mod but also an 'educational project' and clarity and ease of assimilation of whats on offer should be prioritised imho.
    I'm not agree with this. When I started to play to EB II, I was absolutely not an academic or the member of an group of initiate.

    My knowledge of the time frame of EB II was very very limited. The last time I have heard about this, I was a young boy at school, and it was a very short part of the things that I have to learn. At that time, like now in France, it was suspect politicaly to speak too much about ancient celtic history.

    But when I discovered this mod, it make me want to know more about this part of history. When I don't understand, I make search on internet. Now, my library contain a lot of books (too much in the opinion of my wife) about hellenistic period, about the roman republic and about the ancient celts. And this mod make me want to share this knowledge that I have discover with it. That's why I have undertake to make a french translation of this mod.

    So the descriptions of this mod are very synthetic, even all those about celtic factions, regarding to all the informations you can find on internet and in not academic books.

  13. #673
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    Legend's dislike of the features that do not flow with his playing style aside, there were some interesting things that he said. off the top of my head:
    • not utilising some of the features offered by M2TW (forts, agent types?)

    A short comment on this: while I think forts are making more mess than good (mainly due to the AI behavior) and the princesses are quite unhistorical, there are some features of the M2TW that are not used even if imo they could be. Eg. the growth of the provinces is indeed very simplified (compare it to the various sources of growth like those described here).

    Quote Originally Posted by torf View Post
    So the descriptions of this mod are very synthetic, even all those about celtic factions, regarding to all the informations you can find on internet and in not academic books.
    yes and no: I find them to be of academic quality while being concise enough. I think they're really to the point, interesting, useful for immersion. It's one of the best features of the EBII, imho, I read all of them. And the "historical" mechanics and flavour in the EBII is great (like druidry, altron, mercenary service, skulls, etc.)

  14. #674

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    yes and no: I find them to be of academic quality while being concise enough. I think they're really to the point, interesting, useful for immersion. It's one of the best features of the EBII, imho, I read all of them. And the "historical" mechanics and flavour in the EBII is great (like druidry, altron, mercenary service, skulls, etc.)
    I'm agree with you.

    I didn't mean that the text aren't of academic quality. They are really of this level of quality. I just wanted to emphasize their synthetic aspect regarding to the size of the texts.

  15. #675

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Regarding some of the discussion surrounding LTW's view of EB2, I would state, in my opinion, the very things that he does not like, are aspects that I do like. Additionally, although I understand the argument about trying to draw in a greater range of people, personally, I hope this mod does not change its philosophy and niche approach. I value EB2 for its dedication to historical accuracy and believe this should trump all else. This one just view though of an old fan.

  16. #676

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    [/LIST]
    A short comment on this: while I think forts are making more mess than good (mainly due to the AI behavior) and the princesses are quite unhistorical, there are some features of the M2TW that are not used even if imo they could be. Eg. the growth of the provinces is indeed very simplified (compare it to the various sources of growth like those described here).
    Agree on forts, PSF are out of the querstion due to CAI flaws. that said, figuring out implementation of temporary forts that wont compromise wonders would be nice. re princesses, how are they ahistorical? marriage was used to seal alliances and land changed hands in form of dowry etc. look at Pyrrhus for example. alliance with Antigonids is sealed by marriage of Pyrrhus' sister and Demetrius Poliorketes. in the same vain, he turns against Demetrius after his sister, and the latter's wife, dies. Pyrrhus receives Korkyra upon marrying Lanassa, daughter of Agaphocles of Syracuse. Ptolemy's friendship and sponsorship of Pyrrhus was accompanied by the marriage as well... so royal marriage was part and parcel of inter-state relations. selective use of princesses restricting them to monarchies only, would probably work just fine imho.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlieh View Post
    Regarding some of the discussion surrounding LTW's view of EB2, I would state, in my opinion, the very things that he does not like, are aspects that I do like. Additionally, although I understand the argument about trying to draw in a greater range of people, personally, I hope this mod does not change its philosophy and niche approach. I value EB2 for its dedication to historical accuracy and believe this should trump all else. This one just view though of an old fan.
    agreed. when it comes to Hellenistic period, EB is the best mod of all times imho. whilst some tweaks and fine tuning are fine, it should have 'handle with care' sticker on it.

    btw, another interesting point that he raised was on the lack of incentives throughout the play. i personally disagree but it stuck in as something that many may potentially agree with? i.e. player doesnt get enough rewards back for investing so much time and effort into long campaigns.

    and yet another point that i thought provided some food for thought was on the reduced attention span of today's TW players as opposed to good older days. anyone shares this sentiment? according to this logic, slower and longer campaigns would be less popular with the busier and more stimulated and spoiled by choice general public.

  17. #677

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Are the Hellenistic minor offices (Supervisor of trade, Supervisor of public buildings, Warden of the peace etc) permanent? The game manual says that the terms last for 1 year, but some of my guys have been holding them for ages - of course, some of those traits progressed further down the line, based on how they did (Upright/Corrupt Emporiarches, Popular Panegyrarches etc). Also, the manual mentions that those offices are not for the faction leader and heir, but my king has been an upright emporiarches for as long as I can remember - maybe he got it before the crown, dunno. It would be wonderful if someone could explain it to me.

  18. #678
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    There wouldn't happen to be a fix for the family tree crash since the last time I mentioned it a couple years ago would there? Where if you get late enough into a campaign and the list of portraits gets long enough, immediate crash anytime you try to open family tree... And that's with using an increased RAM workaround.

    If not an in-game fix, is there any text-based method I might be able to access the family tree to keep track of stuff outside of the game? Trying to get back into an ancient campaign, and with so many of my decisions being based on familial relations and who gets to rule where, seems impossible to micromanage without access to lineages.

  19. #679
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    It doesn't help that Legend was playing Rome, one of the factions we've done very little with of late. They don't have a scripted series of "early events" the way Makedonia, Bosporans, Pahlava, Saka and others now have, which guides you through your initial expansion. They have no missions, besides the instigation to take Rhegion, and the small stuff around Messana.

  20. #680

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

    Are the Kingetos and Druid paths mutually exclusive? I am asking for both in game and historical info

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