Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

[QuintusSertorius]

Yeah, irrespectively from the Legend case (and I'm very negative on his assessment, as I've put here) a question arises: what a player should do after conquering a settlement?
He doesn't suffer many losses so he doesn't need to wait for reinforcements. The unrest rarely forces him to keep many units in a settlement (unlike in the other mods, as I like to point at). Disbanding troops doesn't make sense as the upkeep costs are 3/16 (with significant upkeep it might have been different) or recruiting plus you don't get back the reserves. A client ruler is recruited so there's nothing to do for a Family Member (unless you're of Romani faction, I guess).
So what to do and why? Even with role-playing? I'm following a few home-rules but they still don't provide for any challenging gameplay...

Stablise the place and set it up for a positive contribution to your empire. That means repairing damage and installing a government before you can consider going elsewhere. The conquering army shouldn't be leaving until you've built up a garrison to replace them, and you need a permanent governor, which means bringing up an FM if it's not going to be an Allied Government. For the Roman FM, he can go back to Rome and wait for the next set of elections, so that he's more likely to have imperium the next time he sets out at the head of an army.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Stablise the place and set it up for a positive contribution to your empire. That means repairing damage and installing a government before you can consider going elsewhere. The conquering army shouldn't be leaving until you've built up a garrison to replace them, and you need a permanent governor, which means bringing up an FM if it's not going to be an Allied Government. For the Roman FM, he can go back to Rome and wait for the next set of elections, so that he's more likely to have imperium the next time he sets out at the head of an army.

(experience from playing Pergamon, Hayasdan and Pritanoi):
Stabilization - done very quickly, the public order drops 5pp a turn, and given the size of the settlements the army is enough to keep the order.
Repairing damage and new govt - are done almost immediately. Building new buildings is done during further conquest if needed.
Garrison - is brought along with the conquering army, second FM as well, if needed.
Other activities: Romani might be different, but neither Pergamon nor Pritanoi need to go back to the capital. My young FMs are learning druidry or serve as mercenaries - but still there're others to assist the faction leader in the immediate conquests.

In every game, I expand much faster than the AI factions. The AI has a difficult time to take the neutral settlements and I get stronger. The AI is simply not decisive enough - IMO something holding back the player's initial expansion is needed. Maybe it could be scaled with difficulty - something for Hard, and something more for Very Hard?

Caeterum censeo: EBII is the best mod for the Medieval 2 (with TATW ;-), but its potential to give the player a real challenge is yet to be realized.
I'll later wrap up my experience with Pritanoi, maybe this would be clear some opinions up.

[Lusitanio]

In every game, I expand much faster than the AI factions. The AI has a difficult time to take the neutral settlements and I get stronger. The AI is simply not decisive enough - IMO something holding back the player's initial expansion is needed. Maybe it could be scaled with difficulty - something for Hard, and something more for Very Hard?

Caeterum censeo: EBII is the best mod for the Medieval 2 (with TATW ;-), but its potential to give the player a real challenge is yet to be realized.
I'll later wrap up my experience with Pritanoi, maybe this would be clear some opinions up.

I wouldn't go for scaling difficulty just because the player decides to start a Very Hard campaign. What I do believe (and the team) is that it is possible to make it harder, as long it is historical. And believe me, adding historical events like rebelions, wars, raids, etc, has a really good effect on the difficulty of campaigns. You can see that already in a Pontus campaign which is super hard at the beginning and others. For the next version there will be new historical scripts that will make campaigns harder. Quintus already spoke about some of them, like new scripts in Sicily about the Punic wars and raids in Anatolia that make your life harder in that region. More is to come.

Edit: Since you refered TATW, which is my second favorite mod (EBII 1st of course), I would like to say that one of the things that I don't like about that mod is how they worked on the difficulty. Campaigns on Very Hard seem to punish the player for every single mistake he does. Currently playing as Gondor, I never have more than one turn to rest my troops and even when I defeat bigger stacks, the enemy sends another one, two turns later. That was the reason why I gave up one DAC campaign with Isengard, because no matter how many armies I defeated, Rohan kept coming at me with full stacks, when I realised that it had been almost 80 turns and I was still on the defensive against Rohan with almost no expansion, I gave up the campaign.

By the way, great job Quintus in answering some of the questions/concerns in that streamer channel

[Jurand of Cracow]

Since you refered TATW, which is my second favorite mod (EBII 1st of course), I would like to say that one of the things that I don't like about that mod is how they worked on the difficulty. Campaigns on Very Hard seem to punish the player for every single mistake he does. Currently playing as Gondor, I never have more than one turn to rest my troops and even when I defeat bigger stacks, the enemy sends another one, two turns later. That was the reason why I gave up one DAC campaign with Isengard, because no matter how many armies I defeated, Rohan kept coming at me with full stacks, when I realised that it had been almost 80 turns and I was still on the defensive against Rohan with almost no expansion, I gave up the campaign.

This is absolutely what I want to hint at: the balance.
Finding a right balance for each faction is essential to provide any player with good experience.
A balance means: not easy (a challenge! the problem in my case with Pritanoi, Pergamon, Hayasdan), but not frustrating and not futile (in your case in TATW).

However, a balance should be different for different players. And this is when difficulty should step in. A Hardcampaign difficulty should mean something. IMO, the historical events should be the same for each difficulty, but the values of some parameters should be harsher at the higher difficulties.

Another thing is the snow-ball effect. Actually, it's one of the few issues tackled in the Rome 2 TW engine. Namely, as you expand, you get more and more fronts into play, but the Imperium limits the number of your armies. You need to choose where do you expand and how to secure another front. Sometimes the armies are used also to keep the public order.
(I admit having no experience with the snow-ball effect in the EBII though, never got to such a big empire)

[Der Böse Wolf]

I don't think any mod can give the players a real challenge without making it frustrating, like spam stacks or stuff like that.

Eventually human players WILL expand and win regardless of the extra handicaps a mod puts in his way.

But what this mod, in my opinion, does superbly, is the historical immersion and the nice challenge it provides. The sheer variety of government types, the education system and military careers proper to each faction.. I mean this is outstanding.

Adding unrealistic difficulty for the sake of difficulty is not the way to do it.

Sure I impose extra house rules so I can enjoy the game as much as possible before inevitably becoming too strong.

The only mod which REALLY gave me a VERY HARD RIDE, without needless frustration (spam stacking, endless AI money etc...) is BGR V. (12 turns per year, manpower limit set each year, feudal system, supplies system, governors and war council members...)

As far as I'm concerned, it's EBII for Antiquity and BGR V for the Middle Ages. Nothing beat these two.

I still have high hopes for SSHIP though. It's very promising.

[Rad]

Adding unrealistic difficulty for the sake of difficulty is not the way to do it.

Amen. I pretty much agree with your entire post, but this is the most important bit.

[Lusitanio]

A balance means: not easy (a challenge! the problem in my case with Pritanoi, Pergamon, Hayasdan), but not frustrating and not futile (in your case in TATW).

However, a balance should be different for different players. And this is when difficulty should step in. A Hardcampaign difficulty should mean something. IMO, the historical events should be the same for each difficulty, but the values of some parameters should be harsher at the higher difficulties.

Another thing is the snow-ball effect. Actually, it's one of the few issues tackled in the Rome 2 TW engine. Namely, as you expand, you get more and more fronts into play, but the Imperium limits the number of your armies. You need to choose where do you expand and how to secure another front. Sometimes the armies are used also to keep the public order.
(I admit having no experience with the snow-ball effect in the EBII though, never got to such a big empire)

A Hard and Very Hard campaign already means something in EBII. It means that the AI recruits mercenaries and the auto-resolve destroys you a lot more times.
The other stuff with balance and making the game harder are things that are getting improved. Look at what I did some time ago in the suggestions thread when I asked for Iberia to have more rebelions/unrest based on historical reasons and the team said yes, making control of that area a lot harder (it will be improved).
So, if you have any idea to make it harder while also being historical, make a suggestion, it may very well be accepted.

[Orochimaru]

Why fortified knud? CAI is passive with fortified. Why knud and not stalin? Does knud give better army composition than stalin or alfonso?

[Dooz]

Is there a relatively impending patch per chance? Or is 2.35 as-is one for the long haul as of now

[QuintusSertorius]

Is there a relatively impending patch per chance? Or is 2.35 as-is one for the long haul as of now

There is a patch in the works, likely in weeks, not months.

[Kokito]

I call that a job well done then.



Yes, oversight on my part and already addressed upthread. Sweboz merc terms only become available post turn 150. In the next version/patch I've set it such that that description trait will only appear post turn 150 as well.

What does it need to be change to make it available before turn 150? what file it is

[Roma_Victrix]

I just want to saw that I am totally awed at the phenomenal artistic masterpieces of some of the newer Celtic units and their upgrade models, especially Cisalpine swordsmen and Noric swordsmen, to say nothing of (funky face-painted) Nervii spearmen and Belgae spearmen. I love how the Noricum swordsmen change from one upgrade model to the next so that there's not only a lot more iron armor and helmets, but also newer types of helmets with plumes that make them look like they would fit right into a Marian period Roman army. In fact, the look of some of them kind of reminds me of the post-Marian Roman cavalry auxilia. And that's not even taking into account the gorgeous heavy decked-out chain-mail wearing Galatian units!

[Danius]

Are certain tiles not able to be raided? I wasnt able to raid "swampy" tiles in the rhine area and yes im below 10 regions.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I've also have a question: the Altron Uoglanmens (school lvl 1) for Pritanoi costs 100 upkeep. However, the higher levels (lvl 2 and lvl 3) don't cost anything but they provide happines. Additionally, the lvl 3 requires Large City that seems not possible to be built by Pritanoi (the can just build Katri to upgrade from Large Town to City).
Is it intended?

[Rad]

There is a patch in the works, likely in weeks, not months.

You'd think I'd get used to it, but I don't.
I half-arse a bunch of campaigns, nothing new comes up for many months.
The moment I get truly interested in one, I hear that a new patch is imminent.

[hlidskjalf]

Noricum swordsmen change from one upgrade model to the next so that there's not only a lot more iron armor and helmets, but also newer types of helmets with plumes that make them look like they would fit right into a Marian period Roman army. In fact, the look of some of them kind of reminds me of the post-Marian Roman cavalry auxilia

yeah man! my favorite unit in the game so badass!

[NapoleonMaster]

I watched the Legend of TW review.

I think his criticisms are summed up like this

"I don't like the music, Rome 1's music was better".
"I don't have that much time and I want to blitzkrieg through the whole map".
"Battles take way too long". (He's on VH so it's expected to last longer, the manual says that M difficulty is the more balanced choice)
"Scripts are annoying and pulling stacks out of nowhere is BS"
"Settlements take way too long to stabilise"
"Gameplay and aesthetics comes first before historical accuracy'
"You don't get too much out of your buildings to get where you want"
"The game doesn't provide you with enough rewards to incentivize the player"
"Rebels are way too strong"
"Recruitment is way too slow"

[hlidskjalf]

Good thing he's not influencing the development process

[Roma_Victrix]

yeah man! my favorite unit in the game so badass!

Agreed and I forgot to mention the Helvetii spearmen. They are just jaw-dropping!

Good thing he's not influencing the development process

I couldn't even make it through the first ten minutes of his video. People actually watch this stuff? I'd rather just play the game than waste six hours watching some guy flail around, not understanding the mechanics of the game or for that matter the time period and cultures involved.

[hlidskjalf]

Agreed and I forgot to mention the Helvetii spearmen. They are just jaw-dropping!

yes!! having a mixed troop army with those spears, the noricii and cisalpine swords, gaesatoi, the different cav units in northern italy, the lancetai. such a pretty blend of awesome troops. lancetai are way underrated, btw! awesome units to protect your cav with.