Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35 released!

[Dooz]

what i had in mind is them functioning normally rather then being a sort of potential glass cannon you have to constantly handhold.

I think they're the complete opposite. Glass cannons are defensively fragile (glass) but offensively deadly (cannon). Phalangites are more like steel walls. Defensive stalwarts, offensive duds. And they're the least hand holdy unit in my experience, since you just position em and leave em. The action happens on the flanks.

Re: being faster in new patch, they already move faster (even faster than I think any other unit but cavalry) when you take them off defensive and/or off phalanx mode (I forget which). I'm guessing them being faster now means while they're in phalanx/defensive mode, wonder if that also means they're super duper fast not in those modes? Or a change in one doesn't automatically reflect in the other?

[QuintusSertorius]

They've got the same movement speed as other line infantry.

[Sarkiss]

They've got the same movement speed as other line infantry.

my experience with facing them was that the rest of the AI units tend to run towards you whilst phalangites (being in guard mode) walk and thus break the enemy line and get isolated. if they could be kept in the AI line somehow, without lagging behind, that'd be fab.

[QuintusSertorius]

Hoping to get the updated Player's Guide out soon.

[Sar1n]

Hoping to get the updated Player's Guide out soon.

Before or after the patch?

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

I am unfortunately disappointed with phalanx warfare- a problem when you favour hellenistic factions.
I find the enemy just hit one side not flanking as such, but hitting flank guards.
The actual phalangites do little, because they are not defensive infantry but offensive. Unfortunately EB has done all they can to do- it's the game.

Yet, I get around it, enjoy it and find better ways to use the phalanx with the limits

[QuintusSertorius]

Philip and Alexander's phalanx could be offensive (and dual-trained - they could be mobilised as skirmishers), but over time they became less so and more static. Pikes got longer, armour heavier and they turned largely defensive.

[Sarkiss]

Philip and Alexander's phalanx could be offensive (and dual-trained - they could be mobilised as skirmishers), but over time they became less so and more static. Pikes got longer, armour heavier and they turned largely defensive.

indeed, in other words, perfect for M2TW
jokes aside, i do look at Rome Remastered and regret that secondary weapons don't work in M2TW as they used to in RTW etc. maybe they'll release M2TW Remastered one day and we wont need to rely on 4GB patch for stability and so on.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

That's what I am suggesting the phalanx is an offensive weapon.
The phalanx was always the core of an hellenistic army, as we know. Previously this had worked in combined arms under good, powerful basileos.
Commanding enough horse became a problem.
At least in Macedonia, Aegyptos and after loosing eastern satrapies -especially Media the Seleukids had similar issues with heavy horse.
PS
Not to mention it was often the case to arm other than Makedonians with what must if been considered an adaptation, an even more deep and wider phalanx with longer sarissa.
King Philip V had much success in his many, many wars. As did many contemporaries. Hellenistic kings never stopped fighting someone

[Hellenikon]

Hellenistic kings didn't have the luxury of being picky about their manpower, so most phalangites got the minimun training and got shoved in the ranks to make up numbers for the deadly wall of sarissas to have enough weight to crush the other phalanx. They didn't have even half the training that alexander's pezhetairoi did. Only exception are the royal phalanxes, like the argyraspides, which pulled very complex manouvers mid battle in Magnesia, centuries after alexander.

[QuintusSertorius]

Hellenistic kings didn't have the luxury of being picky about their manpower, so most phalangites got the minimun training and got shoved in the ranks to make up numbers for the deadly wall of sarissas to have enough weight to crush the other phalanx. They didn't have even half the training that alexander's pezhetairoi did. Only exception are the royal phalanxes, like the argyraspides, which pulled very complex manouvers mid battle in Magnesia, centuries after alexander.

Precisely, my point was that the phalanx degraded in quality over time. Later phalanxes weren't offensive, because they weren't capable of the kind of mobility required to be so.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Precisely, my point was that the phalanx degraded in quality over time. Later phalanxes weren't offensive, because they weren't capable of the kind of mobility required to be so.

In effect is was the opposite to the Scottish pikemen late 13th / early 14th century. They went from being immobile (round shieldtrom) to be able to move in formation (rectangular shieldtrom). (of course, phalanxes formed only rectangular formations and their limited mobility was due to their quality: drill and morale; and the lenght of the pikes)

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

The phalanx was the decision arm of the army, it was the offence because they became to rely almost solely. Philip V used his phalanx well and had the army been properly coordinated I fail to see a reason why they could not win at Kynoscephalae.
As it was the battle was unexpected and for reasons I can't fathom half the phalanx is supposed to of advanced ahead. Hence it's eventual flanking and broken formation.
Rough terrain is always sited, but this applies to both armies. Despite a Roman army being praised for its maneuveriability it still required ideally a open field battle.
Many a Roman army would fail in similar terrain in following centuries.
Anyway, my apologies I ramble and provided no sources, blaming it my bipolar.
Regarding Hellenistic monarchs choice of Man power depending on the 'kingdom' and time of course, but my research does show and I will provide a definite source of makedons for the phalanx in the Seleukid Kingdom into period post Alexander Balas

[tomySVK]

Regarding Hellenistic monarchs choice of Man power depending on the 'kingdom' and time of course, but my research does show and I will provide a definite source of makedons for the phalanx in the Seleukid Kingdom into period post Alexander Balas

I would like to read it

I also don't think the Hellenistic phalanx was that bad and ineffective. Just look at battles like Sellasia (Spartan and Macedonian phalanx fighting in hilly terrain, Magnesia (in Magnesia the phalanx was able to form defensive square in the centre and this was not only Argyraspides phalangites, which were posted on right wing on most reconstrutions). This is interesting reconstruction of the battle:
https://www.academia.edu/4169586/Syv...le_of_Magnesia

They've got the same movement speed as other line infantry.

This is great news

[Pooploop]

I'd like to re-emphasize Sarkiss's point: ai tends to let their phalangites get isolated. EB devs, is there a way, trick, or workaround you guys can apply to the ai to get them to keep a cohesive battle line? The fact that the phalangites have their guard mode on (to solve the whole spearwall mess) kind of causes the other problem that they're so slow they lag behind all other units. Makes fighting hellenistic factions a tad bit easier because their army is already a disorganized mess even before contact.

[Lusitanio]

I'd like to re-emphasize Sarkiss's point: ai tends to let their phalangites get isolated. EB devs, is there a way, trick, or workaround you guys can apply to the ai to get them to keep a cohesive battle line? The fact that the phalangites have their guard mode on (to solve the whole spearwall mess) kind of causes the other problem that they're so slow they lag behind all other units. Makes fighting hellenistic factions a tad bit easier because their army is already a disorganized mess even before contact.

Their speed has been increased on the development build and they are now able to keep up better with the remaining troops

[Sarkiss]

Their speed has been increased on the development build and they are now able to keep up better with the remaining troops

i hope it fixes the issue. and i was technically wrong above - it is phalanx mode, not guard, that forces walking iirc. the issue i encountered is that often AI line infantry prefer to run towards the player whilst phalanx walks (cant run with phalanx mode enabled) and that breaks their formation. given the above mentioned fix, if all stuck to marching/walking there shouldn't be issues with broken AI infantry lines.

[Turek]

Can someone confirm are the steam launch options actually needed if launching EBII from ../EBII/launch.bat only?

I'm playing both SS and EBII so if I can avoid the copy-pasting when switching it would ofc be nice.

[Domaje]

No you don't need to edit steam launch options, the .bat allows you to launch the mod without having to modify anything in Steam.

[Turek]

Thanks! A quality of life thing really.