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Thread: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

  1. #1

    Default Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    I only recently learned that factions in EB can horde, probably because I've never actually seen a faction horde in any of my games.

    Maybe making more factions horde when they're wiped out can create some viable difficulties for the AI/player in the mid-late game? As more factions are destroyed more will horde, and will try and migrate into the player's territory?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    There is a horde respawn feature in the patch that isn't in 2.35, so hordes never die permanently.

    Just as re-emerging factions can never truly die (and they work properly in the patch, thanks to Erken).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Beautiful, can't wait to try it out!

  4. #4
    Lusitanio's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aodh Mór Ó Néill View Post

    Maybe making more factions horde when they're wiped out can create some viable difficulties for the AI/player in the mid-late game? As more factions are destroyed more will horde, and will try and migrate into the player's territory?
    Yep, they do create more difficulties for the player as well as the AI. One time, one of the Arabian factions horded and conquered Cirta from me, my troops fought well, but it wasn't enough against the enemy superior numbers.

    The Numidians are also a huge pain for me, one time I was actually very lucky, while they were around Gaetulia, trying to reach my rich lands, a hearthquake killed all their Generals.

    Regarding the faction re-emergence, thanks to Erken amazing script, not only does it work without any issues as before (like the sudden rise in happiness on all your cities and factions appearing in the other side of the map), but it also gets more predictable, for example, on one of my last campaigns, I was at war with Epeiros and Makedonia had already been destroyed so I decided to conquer Pella so that Makedonia could re-emerge. Sadly they decided to attack me soon after...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    I should also add the new revolts script (which replaces the hardcoded bandit spawn) makes your empire a lot less secure than it was in previous versions. While they're not big armies, they are decent compositions and properly led, and will take poorly garrisoned settlements.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Hello! I am what colloquially is known as a "noob" to this wonderful mod.

    I downloaded EB2 and started playing about a week ago. Now I find that a new patch has dropped! Talk about inauspicious timing!

    What I'm wondering is, what's all this talk about "hordes and re-emerging factions" having been "fixed?" in 2.35A. What was the problem with them in 2.35? Did the system just not work entirely? I'm trying to judge if I should abandon my 100-turns Roman campaign or not.

  7. #7
    Lusitanio's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Basically, hordes were working okay in the previous version, the only difference now is that even if you destroy an horde faction, they might reappear while before you would never see them again.

    With the re-emergent factions, well that would bring lots of issues that the Lusitanians re-emerging in Syracuse and other factions appearing in completely different places.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Basically, hordes were working okay in the previous version, the only difference now is that even if you destroy an horde faction, they might reappear while before you would never see them again.

    With the re-emergent factions, well that would bring lots of issues that the Lusitanians re-emerging in Syracuse and other factions appearing in completely different places.
    So do hordes spawn with the same parameters at re-emergent factions, in their original homelands?

    Also I thought I read here waaaaay back that the re-emergent factions spawning in random locations was a hard-coded bug?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by europe1 View Post
    Hello! I am what colloquially is known as a "noob" to this wonderful mod.

    I downloaded EB2 and started playing about a week ago. Now I find that a new patch has dropped! Talk about inauspicious timing!

    What I'm wondering is, what's all this talk about "hordes and re-emerging factions" having been "fixed?" in 2.35A. What was the problem with them in 2.35? Did the system just not work entirely? I'm trying to judge if I should abandon my 100-turns Roman campaign or not.
    Honestly, abandon your current game. Countless things have been fixed, and you'd even notice differences if you went straight into another Roman game, with a much expanded Italic and other Allied roster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aodh Mór Ó Néill View Post
    So do hordes spawn with the same parameters at re-emergent factions, in their original homelands?

    Also I thought I read here waaaaay back that the re-emergent factions spawning in random locations was a hard-coded bug?
    Hordes respawn differently, so they never had this issue.

    The issue with re-emergence is hardcoded, but Erken found a way around it.

  10. #10
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Very cool, glad to hear about the continuation of the horde feature, which I've rarely seen, usually among the Numidians and Parthians, but still very cool each time it happens.

    I just wish this included one or two emerging factions that historically threatened the eastern portions of the map. Namely the migrating Yuezhi pushed west in the 2nd century BC by the Xiongnu, chief enemies of the Chinese Han dynasty in northwestern China (the Tarim Basin of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region). After being kicked out of what is now Kazakhstan by the Wusun, the Yuezhi continued west into Sogdia and Bactria. These invasions also dislodged the Saka and is what led to the collapse of the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom in Central Asia, the formation of the Indo-Scythian Kingdom, the eventual destruction of the Indo-Greek Kingdom and later the foundation the Yuezhi-led Kushan Empire in South Asia.

    Seems like pretty important stuff to include in the game. I know you guys are dead set on creating a new faction further west (Illyrians?) so that would take up another faction slot, but would that allow for one more faction like the Yuezhi? Would be pretty cool to see them in the game.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    It's not the same, but there is an Eastern Migrations script that simulates a lot of those movements of horselords into our eastern map.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Basically, hordes were working okay in the previous version, the only difference now is that even if you destroy an horde faction, they might reappear while before you would never see them again.

    With the re-emergent factions, well that would bring lots of issues that the Lusitanians re-emerging in Syracuse and other factions appearing in completely different places.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Honestly, abandon your current game. Countless things have been fixed, and you'd even notice differences if you went straight into another Roman game, with a much expanded Italic and other Allied roster.
    Alright! Thanks for the intel guys.

    Now I'll just have to decide if I want to go on long enough with my current campaign to destroy Cartage for murdering my Faction Leader on Sicily.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by europe1 View Post
    Now I'll just have to decide if I want to go on long enough with my current campaign to destroy Cartage for murdering my Faction Leader on Sicily.
    Surely he did something to deserve that, after all, what was he doing in Sicily anyway? That's Carthage territory

  14. #14

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Surely he did something to deserve that, after all, what was he doing in Sicily anyway? That's Carthage territory
    Dog-faced Lusitanii!!! Here I go telling you about the tragic death of noble MANIVS VALERIVS MAXIMVS!!! (STTL) and you have the gall, the temerity, nay the uncultured barbarity to insinuate that he was up to something untoward in Sicily!!!? Yes he was besieging Syracuse as it happened but the money-grubbing Phoenicians had besieged it first! And he only atta... err... sought to rescue the fair city from Athenian tyranny to begin with. I pray that drunkards vomit over all of your holy places for this insult! Where we on twitter, then I would NOT heart this comment.

  15. #15
    Marvzilla's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Very cool, glad to hear about the continuation of the horde feature, which I've rarely seen, usually among the Numidians and Parthians, but still very cool each time it happens.

    I just wish this included one or two emerging factions that historically threatened the eastern portions of the map. Namely the migrating Yuezhi pushed west in the 2nd century BC by the Xiongnu, chief enemies of the Chinese Han dynasty in northwestern China (the Tarim Basin of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region). After being kicked out of what is now Kazakhstan by the Wusun, the Yuezhi continued west into Sogdia and Bactria. These invasions also dislodged the Saka and is what led to the collapse of the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom in Central Asia, the formation of the Indo-Scythian Kingdom, the eventual destruction of the Indo-Greek Kingdom and later the foundation the Yuezhi-led Kushan Empire in South Asia.

    Seems like pretty important stuff to include in the game. I know you guys are dead set on creating a new faction further west (Illyrians?) so that would take up another faction slot, but would that allow for one more faction like the Yuezhi? Would be pretty cool to see them in the game.
    There was a lot of talk about them already as you probably remember, I think the conclusion was that a new factions slot is too precious to give to an unplayable emergent faction, especially one that comes quite late in the campaing, I dont know how many turns the 170s BC are. But I too would rather love another steppe faction in the east, instead of the very probable Belgai.

  16. #16
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    It's not the same, but there is an Eastern Migrations script that simulates a lot of those movements of horselords into our eastern map.
    Ah, there's that at least. Not a bad compromise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvzilla View Post
    There was a lot of talk about them already as you probably remember, I think the conclusion was that a new factions slot is too precious to give to an unplayable emergent faction, especially one that comes quite late in the campaing, I dont know how many turns the 170s BC are. But I too would rather love another steppe faction in the east, instead of the very probable Belgai.
    Over 400 turns is the answer, but yes, I suppose that does make some sense since the player would never have an opportunity to play as the Yuezhi.

    Quote Originally Posted by europe1 View Post
    Dog-faced Lusitanii!!! Here I go telling you about the tragic death of noble MANIVS VALERIVS MAXIMVS!!! (STTL) and you have the gall, the temerity, nay the uncultured barbarity to insinuate that he was up to something untoward in Sicily!!!? Yes he was besieging Syracuse as it happened but the money-grubbing Phoenicians had besieged it first! And he only atta... err... sought to rescue the fair city from Athenian tyranny to begin with. I pray that drunkards vomit over all of your holy places for this insult! Where we on twitter, then I would NOT heart this comment.
    Heh, +1 rep for the hilarity.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Hordes as viable mid-game threats?

    The Eastern Migrations script is proper late-game stuff, the earliest things don't happen til turn 240 and lots of it is post turn-400.

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