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Thread: The Uprising of the Middle Class

  1. #61

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    fkizz, you are putting everything in the same bag. The horrors of Pot, Stalin, Mao, and the western interference in North Africa,Libya. It's not exactly the same.
    Well I gave benefit of doubt because maybe I worded myself wrong, and tried a clarification post,

    Given you keep insisting I say (not even using past tense) that North Africa and Lybia is the same as Stalin;

    Then there's no option but to reach the conclusion that you are trolling.

    I'll still be here for when you decide to give a serious not-evasive post.
    Last edited by fkizz; December 11, 2018 at 05:37 PM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  2. #62

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post

    So? Does that mean they don't political polorization? My country has it and migration definitely isn't the cause for it. You act as if all political problems in Europe lead back to immigration and that's and you know it.
    You have a president that run with an anti-immigration platform and the opposing parties responding with a no border controls policy. ''Not polarized''.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Your own source points out social cohesion has no established definition.

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...-and-measured/

    It's very subjective.
    No, my own source says that every single studies concludes that social cohesion and diversity are inversely correlated. Then since it's not a politically acceptable definition, they add ''yeah but maybe we can define social cohesion differently''.... without being able to obtain different results.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    See that's the problem. This seems like a more European issue since immigrants in the US commit crimes at a lower rate than native population.
    Only because of the already mentioned African American overrepresentation. Immigrants in the US have higher crime rates than whites and Asians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Jesus. You do know Hungary is dealing with a declining economy, low wages, and many of it's people leaving the country to find work elsewhere? It's like you have no idea what's going on around you.
    .........................................
    GDP growth for Hungary in the last 5 years (2013-2017):
    2.1 4.2 3.4 2.2 4.0
    https://www.focus-economics.com/countries/hungary

    Wage growth is actually close to 10% yearly:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Also, do you really think that decreasing the size of the population diminuishes wage growth? Because it's the exact opposite.
    Next time instead of posting laughing emojis and say I don't know what I'm talking about, check basic facts. It would have taken you 30 seconds at best. Reality is exactly the opposite of what you just said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    What people prefer doesn't match up to reality. Reality is more Americans are living in diverse areas than ever.
    And I already gave you a WaPo-pro diversity study that says Americans are more segregated than 50 years ago.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Is there a country that prevents this right? You can have to right to choose where to live already. You just can't exclude people based on ethnicity, race, or religion.
    Do you not have that right now or something?
    And most people choose to date and live within their group, meaning social self-segregation and parallel societies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Your definition integration isn't the actual definition and it kinda ignores the hundreds of years of slavery and segregation they had to deal with.
    Never said it's not part of the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    You perfer a declining economy and more issues? If Lebanon has a civil war it's because of religion not migrants.
    Lebanon when created was roughly 50% Muslim, 50% Christian. Civil war developed because Muslims had a significantly higher birthrate, thus the demographic shift that's also ongoing in Europe. A temporary demographic/economic decline is a far better option than civil war under any aspect.

    Not going to address this further with you anyway. Your posts ignore basic facts, and when provided with opposing evidence, you strawman or move goalposts. The argument that Western Europe is doing better than Japan/SK/Hungary is retarded under any metric you choose, economy, social cohesion, crime, political polarization, terrorism. You made zero research about Hungary and came up with a description that it's the actual opposite of reality. Stick to posting emojis and making claims without checking.

    Let's stick to France and watch the post-boy for globalism crash and burn. It's entertaining enough.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; December 11, 2018 at 09:27 PM.

  3. #63
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Immigrants in the US have higher crime rates than whites and Asians.
    Really? I think not.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6b90590965c9
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tion-myth.html
    http://oxfordre.com/criminology/view...190264079-e-93
    https://www.themarshallproject.org/2...inal-immigrant
    https://psmag.com/social-justice/res...er-crime-rates
    https://www.cato.org/blog/murder-mol...nt-crime-facts

    Come on now if even the CATO institute says your statement is bunk you can't say its just me finding lefty sources because of lefty bias.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #64

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    CATO institute is an open borders libertarian think thank but that's not the point anyway.

    My claim:
    -once split by ethnicty, immigrants have a higher crime rate than Whites or Asians, while not higher overall than Americans, due to the fact that African Americans have an insanely high rate.

    First link:
    -Addresses the issue from the point of view of legal, illegal immigrant and citizen. Those are not the category I talked about.
    Second:
    -categories are immigration and citizens, sorted by counties. Also not valid.
    Third:
    -this is the one that somewhat comes even remotely close to discussing what I have been claiming. Unfortunately when we go by crime and ethnicity, the only studies listed are about Chicago (indeed confirming that African Americans have a higher crime rate than anyone else.)
    Fourth:
    -it's a copy pasta of the second. Did you even read it?
    Fifth:
    -same categories of the first.
    Sixth:
    -this is much of the same argument of the second and fourth. Indeed they quote it.

    Now, what you just did is a strawman. You changed my argument and claimed victory. Which btw represents the entirety of liberal media arguments. I made a very specific claim, while you are giving me only a citizen vs non-citizen argument and claim ''immigration reduces crime''.

    False.

    Let's look at the data by ethnicty first.
    N. of inmates per 100.000 inhabitants.
    Whites: 450
    Hispanic: 831
    Black: 2306
    https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/rates.html
    Obviously that doesn't solve the issue yet, because I specifically claimed that immigrants have a higher rate than whites, but lower than blacks.

    Now let's pick the data by status citizen/legal/illegal, provided by Cato, same ratio as before per 100,000 inhabitants.
    Natives: 1521.
    Legal immigrants: 325.
    Illegal immigrants: 800.
    https://www.cato.org/publications/im...untries-origin
    Total for immigrants : 325+800=1125 per 100,000 inhabitants.

    Put it back into the race categories:
    Whites: 450
    Hispanic: 851.
    All immigrants: 1125
    Blacks: 2306.

    Din din din din!
    Which is precisely what I claimed: US crime statistics are enormously skewed due to the fact that African Americans have a high crime rate. Once you leave them out, immigrants have a higher crime rate than Whites (and Asians too but theirs is so low it's not even in the statistics).

    Unfortunately, dishonest excrements in the liberal media, and much of the research like to avoid this little detail, and stop at ''immigrants have a lower crime rate than natives in the US''. Yes, but the above data says why. Next time don't strawman me and stick to the data. I just smashed through your worthless liberal lies. 6 links, not a single one addressing the issue.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; December 12, 2018 at 02:46 AM.

  5. #65
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Which is precisely what I claimed:
    No you claimed crime rate not incarceration rates. Simple fact if you are brown you are very very much more likely to be incarcerated for a crime vs a white person. Illegals are of course commuting a crime by being in the US , The data in the CATO explicitly notes they are including ICE detention facility data Theoretically J-walking could get you incarcerated if you are in the US illegally. If you are going to use incarceration data you certainly need to net out illegals who are incarcerated for just being illegal and commuting no other jail-able offense. That likelihood (for Browns of Jail time) is a spiral Grow up in a nice white suburb and the chances of getting stopped and frisked for pot no matter how you are smoking is unlikely, be a brown teen in a brown neighborhood your luck is likely a lot thinner. Get record then any new mistake is more likely to put you behind bars.
    Incarceration rates are not equivalent to crime rates. So no you did not prove your statement.

    In any case from you own CATO link Table 1:

    Incarceration rater (per 1000,000) white by status
    Native 898
    Immegrent 207
    Illegal 397

    So native Whites are still incarcerated at a higher rate. The same pattern holds true for every racial category they break out.
    Last edited by conon394; December 12, 2018 at 07:16 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #66

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    No you claimed crime rate not incarceration rates. Simple fact if you are brown you are very very much more likely to be incarcerated for a crime vs a white person. Illegals are of course commuting a crime by being in the US , The data in the CATO explicitly notes they are including ICE detention facility data Theoretically J-walking could get you incarcerated if you are in the US illegally. If you are going to use incarceration data you certainly need to net out illegals who are incarcerated for just being illegal and commuting no other jail-able offense. That likelihood (for Browns of Jail time) is a spiral Grow up in a nice white suburb and the chances of getting stopped and frisked for pot no matter how you are smoking is unlikely, be a brown teen in a brown neighborhood your luck is likely a lot thinner. Get record then any new mistake is more likely to put you behind bars.
    Incarceration rates are not equivalent to crime rates. So no you did not prove your statement.

    The systemtic racism hypothesis is a post-modern based ideological argument that has no scientific validity whatsoever. The recent ''grievance studies'' scandal has indeed proved that ethnic, sexuality and gender studies are willing to publish any absurd claim so long that proves that straight, heterosexual, white males are evil and the opposing minorities are oppressed. But since you brought that up, you gave me an idea for a thread. Should be fun. You'll also hate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    In any case from you own CATO link Table 1:

    Incarceration rater (per 1000,000) white by status
    Native 898
    Immegrent 207
    Illegal 397

    So native Whites are still incarcerated at a higher rate. The same pattern holds true for every racial category they break out.
    This is exclusively among whites.
    White natives, white legal immigrant, white illegal immigrants.

    It just shows that white immigrants overall have lower incarceration rates than white natives. Which is... fine. It doesn't disprove my claim in any way. It's irrelevant. My claim was that immigrants have higher rates than Whites and Asians and that the US crime rate is far higher due to the African American overrepresentation. This is undoubtfully true.

    Not only that, but as data have shown, immigrants have a higher crime rates than native Hispanics as well. This further highlights the outlier of African American rates.

  7. #67
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    The systemtic racism hypothesis is a post-modern based ideological argument that has no scientific validity whatsoever. The recent ''grievance studies'' scandal has indeed proved that ethnic, sexuality and gender studies are willing to publish any absurd claim so long that proves that straight, heterosexual, white males are evil and the opposing minorities are oppressed. But since you brought that up, you gave me an idea for a thread. Should be fun. You'll also hate it.
    Nice ideological rant. You have personal experience with the US justices system involving a case that could involve jail time? If the answer is no than you lack perspective. In any case it immaterial because you attempt at evidence is still poorly constructed by you to just wrong. Do me a favor why not make a working class black friend in Detroit and tell him this the travels of Lindsey Lohan (from Wiki)

    "In May 2007, Lohan was arrested on a charge of driving under the influence of alcohol (DUI).[250] In July, less than two weeks out of rehab, Lohan was arrested a second time on charges of possession of cocaine, driving under the influence and driving with a suspended license.[251][252][253][254] In August, Lohan pleaded guilty to misdemeanor cocaine use and driving under the influence and was sentenced to an alcohol education program, community service, one day in jail, and was given three years probation. Lohan released a statement in which she said "it is clear to me that my life has become completely unmanageable because I am addicted to alcohol and drugs."[255] In November, Lohan served 84 minutes in jail. A sheriff spokesman cited overcrowding and the nonviolent nature of the crime as reasons for the reduced sentence.[256]"

    Ask him or her if they think a poor working stiff from Detroit who was black would get the same free ride.

    Not only that, but as data have shown, immigrants have a higher crime rates than native Hispanics as well. This further highlights the outlier of African American rates.
    No you have cited no data on crime rates only incarceration rates. As I noted (and your source does also) those data include ICE detention. ICE detention means being picked up for being illegal(*), or committing a even a minor ticketing offense and than being picked up for being illegal.Thus you data in not comparing apples to apples. Within each racial category natives vs immigrants of all types the incarceration rate is lower for the later.
    While technically every illegal is a criminal even you have to admit that for the proposes of this debate being incarcerated for that or just a petty offense than would never rise above a ticket - becuse it exposed you as an illegal -is skewing the data.

    * As in ICE raids a Hormel meat packing plant and when they net out the illegal they are incarcerated. The white executives and mangers not so much if they even get fined. No disparity in sentencing here at all. Although I will admit the better proxy is wealth and corporate wealth for avoiding prison.
    Last edited by conon394; December 12, 2018 at 10:43 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #68
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    What's the track record of anti-nationalists (internationalists)? Pol Pot? Stalin USSR Great Purges...Lybia and Benghazi?
    ...I just implied that Internationalist movements show nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    Given you keep insisting I say (not even using past tense) that North Africa and Lybia is the same as Stalin;
    Then there's no option but to reach the conclusion that you are trolling.
    -----
    1) I criticized the illiberal nationalist regimes. I said that a nationalist solution is not a solution, for those who believe in a liberal democracy: post 42.

    2) then you asked what's the track record of anti-nationalists (internationalists)? Pol Pot? Stalin USSR Great Purges? Holodomor? Middle east wars that have nothign to do with the nation? Lybia and Benghazi? - post 46

    What I'm saying - I don't understand your reference to the communist regimes, and the references to Libya and Benghazi, in the context of my post 42.( "a nationalist solution is not a solution, for those who believe in a liberal democracy")

    Your reference to Stalin's purges/ Cambodian genocide/ and western interventions in the middle east seems out of context.There are those who believe in a liberal democracy, and there are those who believe in illiberal, racist, xenophobic regimes, and that's it.

    -----
    Back to the topic,
    Gilets jaunes protests continue despite Macron concessions | World ...

    The gilets jaunes movement is made up of people from all political backgrounds – some on the far right have mentioned immigration on the barricades while those on the left do not consider it a pressing issue.
    The far-right politician Marine Le Pen, whom Macron beat in last year’s presidential election, said Macron still failed to protect citizens in the face of “savage” globalisation.
    The leftwing Jean-Luc Mélenchon said Macron was mistaken if he thought “a distribution of money” would calm “the insurrection”.
    The European commission, which monitors EU members’ finances, said it would study the budgetary impact of Macron’s measures, which are expected to cost billions of euros and will push up France’s deficit.
    In fact,




    The interesting question is,

    Will EU treat Italy more leniently as France's Macron risks breaching fiscal rules?.

    Macquarie analysts estimate Macron’s proposals would push France’s budget deficit back above 3% of its gross domestic product in 2019.
    Investors and politicians are speculating if France’s potential breach of the European Union’s fiscal rules will lead Brussels to relent in its budget battle with Rome.
    Per Moscovici la Francia può sforare, l'Italia no
    France can breach the EU budget rules. Not Italy. France is France.

    Nothing new here. 2016, EU gives budget leeway to France 'because it is France' - Juncker
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #69

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Nice ideological rant. You have personal experience with the US justices system involving a case that could involve jail time?
    That's the literal ideological base of post-modernism dude. Personal perception valued over facts.


    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    "In May 2007, Lohan was arrested on a charge of driving under the influence of alcohol (DUI).[250] In July, less than two weeks out of rehab, Lohan was arrested a second time on charges of possession of cocaine, driving under the influence and driving with a suspended license.[251][252][253][254] In August, Lohan pleaded guilty to misdemeanor cocaine use and driving under the influence and was sentenced to an alcohol education program, community service, one day in jail, and was given three years probation. Lohan released a statement in which she said "it is clear to me that my life has become completely unmanageable because I am addicted to alcohol and drugs."[255] In November, Lohan served 84 minutes in jail. A sheriff spokesman cited overcrowding and the nonviolent nature of the crime as reasons for the reduced sentence.[256]"

    Ask him or her if they think a poor working stiff from Detroit who was black would get the same free ride.
    Have you figured that she might have had a lighter sentence because a) she's famous b) she's pretty c) whatever other circumstances.
    Here's instead what you do: different sentence? Racism!


    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    No you have cited no data on crime rates only incarceration rates. As I noted (and your source does also) those data include ICE detention. ICE detention means being picked up for being illegal(*), or committing a even a minor ticketing offense and than being picked up for being illegal.Thus you data in not comparing apples to apples. Within each racial category natives vs immigrants of all types the incarceration rate is lower for the later.
    While technically every illegal is a criminal even you have to admit that for the proposes of this debate being incarcerated for that or just a petty offense than would never rise above a ticket - becuse it exposed you as an illegal -is skewing the data.

    * As in ICE raids a Hormel meat packing plant and when they net out the illegal they are incarcerated. The white executives and mangers not so much if they even get fined. No disparity in sentencing here at all. Although I will admit the better proxy is wealth and corporate wealth for avoiding prison.
    Is the incarceration rate for immigrants higher than that of Whites and Asians and lower than Blacks, yes or no? Is the latter significantly higher than the rest, to the point of skewing the average?

    No further postmodernist nonsense will be addressed. Facts don't care about your feelings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Just to point out, Macron run with the platform that globalisation was good and if we doubled down on it, things would work better. He never promised anything different. He did exactly what he said he'd do. Lowering taxes on art property was part of his program, just like it was the removal of taxation for companies that leave France.

    Also, thanks to Moscovici for flaring up anti-globalist sentiment in Italy. Nothing unites us like a common enemy.I really want to see an equivalent of Gilet Jaunes in Italy against the European Commission and President Mattarella.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; December 12, 2018 at 11:19 AM.

  10. #70
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    That's the literal ideological base of post-modernism dude. Personal perception valued over facts.
    Whatever, it matters not if you don't accept the of a skew in sentencing to jail time in the US for brown people because you have failed to sustain your argument.

    Have you figured that she might have had a lighter sentence because a) she's famous b) she's pretty c) whatever other circumstances.
    Here's instead what you do: different sentence? Racism!
    Any of you alternative reasons are any better?

    Is the incarceration rate for immigrants higher than that of Whites and Asians and lower than Blacks, yes or no? Is the latter significantly higher than the rest, to the point of skewing the average?
    What?

    You have failed to provide any evidence that incarceration rates have a 1:1 relationship with crime rates. That is clearly not the case.

    In the first place you have failed to address the problem of of ICE detention. Unless you net all illegals in detention for nothing but being illegal or being illegal and commuting an infraction that would not otherwise cause detention - you numbers are skewed even inf they (and they are not) a 1:1 indicator of crime rate.

    Second please provide more clarity on post #64. Because on the CATO source I cannot find your numbers.

    Natives
    : 1521.
    Legal immigrants: 325.
    Illegal immigrants: 800.
    https://www.cato.org/publications/im...untries-origin
    Total for immigrants : 325+800=1125 per 100,000 inhabitants.
    OK so far so good you have taken the bottom line number from Table 1. Of course again ignoring the explicit caveat cited about ICE detention. I wonder how many ICE raids there are in Boston to find all those damn Irish illegals. There are a lot of them and back in the day they funneled lots of money to those fine boys and girls in the IRA...

    In any case so saw Table one and will not dispute that in every column the Immigrant total of both sorts is less than the native one?

    Put it back into the race categories:
    Whites: 450
    Hispanic: 851.
    All immigrants: 1125
    Blacks: 2306.
    You achieved these number how they do not exist in your source.


    No matter

    Incarceration is not 1:1 with crimes committed
    You have to eliminate ICE detention

    So the answer is no. You cannot compare a incarceration rate which is not a crime rate unless you can adjust for illegals being detained for simply being illegal.

    That's the literal ideological base of post-modernism dude. Personal perception valued over facts.
    So that is no? Sorry has a trained economist I could help but do an observational study my sample size is somewhat more than 1. For sentencing some 3 groups of 30-35 (sorry as the outlier with a lawyer I got to hang around since his motion for defer for whatever reason was the last). But I would not really call racism first as you allege I would call oligarchy and money and education first. But unfortunately in the US race makes a good proxy for that. Being the white guy in the room in suit with a lawyer make a surprisingly long list of things go away. First is actual jail time.
    Last edited by conon394; December 12, 2018 at 12:24 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  11. #71
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Blacks prefer to live among blacks, Hispanics among Hispanics, Whites among Whites, Asians among Asians.
    Really? OK, Basil, the US should send blacks to Africa, Italians and the Italian Mafia to Italy, etc. Is the American Mafia on the Rise? – Rolling Stone
    I'm being ironic, off course.
    The white racism wins.New Study Shows White People Don't Like Living Near Black - The Root

    Thinking about it, historically speaking, in the US, your Italian compatriots, and other European groups (Greeks, Poles, Hungarians, Slavs, etc),had to overcome prejudice over many years. White immigrants weren't always considered white — and acceptable

    They ultimately met that burden and crucial to their success was that they were not black and they actively helped in maintaining a racist society....President Barack Obama remarked that racial advancement doesn’t proceed in a straight forward-moving line. Instead, moments of progress give way to regressions. He’s right. And whether white supremacy surges or wanes modulates this phenomenon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    -art. 32 and 33 are Orwellian: educate kids to multiculturalism and the benefits of migration, educate media professionals for the same, censor media that speak negatively about it.
    edit: to make things worse for Macron, there seems to have been a terrorist attack in Strasbourg.
    A French terrorist, born in France. As I said, we we don't want isolated and xenophobic migrants in our countries, that's the idea behind the art. 32/33: education/tolerance/ integration.
    Last edited by Ludicus; December 12, 2018 at 12:12 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  12. #72

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Really? OK, Basil, the US should send blacks to Africa, Italians and the Italian Mafia to Italy, etc. Is the American Mafia on the Rise? – Rolling Stone
    I'm being ironic, off course.
    The white racism wins.New Study Shows White People Don't Like Living Near Black - The Root

    Thinking about it, historically speaking, in the US, your Italian compatriots, and other European groups (Greeks, Poles, Hungarians, Slavs, etc),had to overcome prejudice over many years. White immigrants weren't always considered white — and acceptable

    Don't stramwan me. I know you can make better posts than that.

    I simply pointed out that when we look at dating habits and choice of neighbourhoods where to live in the US, most people prefer to stick to their own racial group. It's an observation, not a suggestion.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.2c9bd485380b
    https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and...4-107dcbb4f060

    Now, these tribal preferences exist among most groups, meaning that extremely diverse societies tend towards self-segregation. Correcting this through policy means preventing people from choosing who to date, because otherwise they show racial preferences, or where to live, because otherwise they pick to live among their ethnic group. Everyone does this, not just whites. Every single group. So, how do you solve it without violating individual rights?

    I don't have a solution.

    That being said, as far as the rest goes, Italians, Irish and Slavic people at a certain point were not considered ''white'' in the US, and they still aren't for white supremacist groups. I'm well aware of that, you are absolutely right and I laugh every time I get Nordic supremacist arguments.
    The promotion of the above groups to ''white'' is mostly in the post-war period, which is why many demographers suspect that at a certain point a large number of Hispanics will start considering themselves ''white'', since Hispanic is a completely made-up group that mixes Mexicans, Cubans and South Americans. A rather wide phenomenon in many of those countries is that of ''casticisimo''.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castizo


    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    A French terrorist, born in France. As I said, we we don't want isolated and xenophobic migrants in our countries, that's the idea behind the art. 32/33: education/tolerance/ integration.
    Here's the huge issue: he was born in France, he's second, if not third generation, he has the French citizenship, went through French education, yet he hates France, he hates French people, he hates French values, he identifies himself by his faith and hates those who do not belong. Meaning that despite decades and generations, this guy is still not integrated in French society. Meaning this isn't working. Nor it's an isolated case. Art. 32-33 are policies that have been done and have failed, they don't solve problems, they silence criticism and frustrate even more people, polarizing society.

  13. #73
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    choice of neighbourhoods where to live in the US, most people prefer to stick to their own racial group.
    I don't have access to your link,ttps://www.washingtonpost.

    But, from the Washington Post, a very different survey





    -------
    this guy is still not integrated in French society. Meaning this isn't working.
    More precisely,as we know, it's not their fault.
    'Nothing's changed': 10 years after French riots, banlieues remain in
    Life in the Paris Banlieues | The New Yorker

    -----


    art. 32-33 are policies that have been done
    No, I don't think so. Anyway, migration, is a natural phenomenon as old as history itself, and cannot be stopped. That's the reason why a comprehensive global pact for migration is necessary, migration needs a common answer. And again, the terrorists are the exception, not the rule.
    We need migrants.Italy says goodbye, we say hello.Generally speaking, Immigration is vital to boost economic growth | Financial Times

    Cutting immigration will hobble economic growth. It’s that simple. New research I have conducted with Citigroup suggests two-thirds of US growth since 2011 is directly attributable to migration. In the UK, if immigration had been frozen in 1990 so that the number of migrants remained constant, the economy would be at least 9 per cent smaller than it is now. That is equivalent to a real loss in gross domestic product of more than £175bn over 15 years. In Germany, if immigration had been similarly frozen the net economic loss would be 6 per cent, or €155bn.These figures do not include the wider, long-term benefits of immigration, in particular the disproportionate contributions skilled migrants make to innovation and wealth creation.

    The increasing political focus on migration stems from a different cause: some politicians use surges in numbers, or isolated examples of crime, to build support. Much of their appeal seeks to build on wider resentment with stagnating income growth and austerity. While these concerns need to be listened to and addressed, cutting immigration is not the answer. Our work suggests that further controls on immigration will only slow growth, exacerbate inequality, undermine social cohesion and lead to a vicious cycle of further controls on migrants. The race to the bottom by politicians to show how tough they are on immigration will hurt us all.
    --
    Salvini, the political chameleon, said last month, Italy's 2.4 percent deficit target not negotiable
    And now, a few hours ago...Italy Offers 2.04% Budget Deficit Target in EU Peace Gesture
    Not enough, says the EU.
    -----
    Back to the topic, Calls for end to gilets jaunes protests in wake of Strasbourg shooting ...

    French government ministers have appealed for the nationwide gilets jaunes protests to stop in the wake of the Strasbourg attack.
    I will refrain from commenting.
    Last edited by Ludicus; December 12, 2018 at 05:40 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  14. #74

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN1O90V5

    ''U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres sought to promote a global pact on migrant flows at a U.N. conference in Morocco on Monday, saying developed countries needed more migration due to their declining birth rates and aging populations.''

    Sorry, ethnic replacement of Europeans is not negotiable. The global compact, by admission of the UN secretary is made to increase migration to replace the dying out European people (ie countries with falling birthrates). Not interested. If anything, we should cut funding of the UN for promoting genocide. I'm glad Italy is not signing this thing. It's a denial of our right to exist and cultivate our ethnic and cultural identity.

    Back to the topic, I love how it took an entire page to mention what exactly the French are protesting.
    What ethnic replacement? Have you been reading Breitbart again Basil?


    Predictably, within a year and half, the country is up in flames, because the ''experts'' aren't immune from cognitive bias, personal bias and ideological bias. Macron's policies are designed by and for upper class cosmopolitan progressives. The fuel tax ''to save the world from climate changeTM'' is indeed designed by people who live in the wealthy areas of large cities, make large use of public transport and demand a pat on the back for their humanitariasm paid by those who aren't doing well economically.
    Your proof for "technocracy" not working is the incidence of unrest in Europe? This is like saying Obama is a failed politician because Trump got elected in 2016. Oh wait, you probably do believe that ridiculous line of thought.

    And you want more of that. Go for it. Soviet Union 2.0, 60 million deaths aren't enough for the glorious socialist dream.

    Of course, just like every single time the liberal retards in power like Macron mess it up, it's Russia's fault.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...line-xx2f2g8th

    or Facebook's:
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ckets-facebook

    Sorry liberals, it's none of that. It's your ideas.
    I don't think any rational "liberal" ever claimed that Russia and Facebook are the root of all of their country's problems. You're strawmanning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    I'm fine with birthrates falling, because with automation impending, we need less humans. You want to fight climate change seriously? We also need less humans. Otherwise the only other options are to a) revamp pro-family education and role models b) make kids affordable for at least the middle class.

    Either way, replacement migration has dividedEurope, destroyed social cohesion, given birth to tribalism, made a number of countries ungovernable, brought Islamic terrorism and turned entire areas into crapholes. It's not a good solution to anything if it creates a multitude of increasingly unsolvable problems.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    As for the whole ridiculous immigrant argument in America... Jesus ing Christ. Here's a CATO study.

    The homicide conviction rate for illegal immigrants was16 percent below that of native-born Americans in Texas in2015. The conviction rates for illegal immigrants were 7.9 percentand 77 percent below that of native-born Americans forsex crimes and larceny, respectively. For all criminal convictionsin Texas in 2015, illegal immigrants had a criminal convictionrate 50 percent below that of native-born Americans.
    And this is in Texas, where I assure you, the vast majority are Mexicans.

  15. #75

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    -----
    1) I criticized the illiberal nationalist regimes. I said that a nationalist solution is not a solution, for those who believe in a liberal democracy: post 42.

    2) then you asked what's the track record of anti-nationalists (internationalists)? Pol Pot? Stalin USSR Great Purges? Holodomor? Middle east wars that have nothign to do with the nation? Lybia and Benghazi? - post 46
    Well I've said that 1) I worded it not in the best way, 2) I do not intend to equalize Lybia with Stalin (saying this now for 2nd time), the big question is, what is the signal to know if you are legit confused or simply trolling

    One refered to Internationalism of the century past, in the Marxist-Leninism sense, or Maoist-Guerrila, and the other to "Democratic" Globalism of the present, which, despite belonging in different bags, have internationalism as transversal to them, in the terms of both movements being Anti-Nationalist factions, even if, for the third time now, are different factions and separated in timeframe.;

    in the same way that Enlightenment movements of the past is transversal to Democracy of today, despite Enlightenment writings of the past having been written during period of Absolute Monarchies in some cases, yet there is a temporal link, that interconnects the historical events, despite them being different historical events.

    So now that your fallacy has been dismantled, I ask again, what do anti-nationalist factions in general have to put on the table that actually works?

    I know they're very good at being professional critics and complainers, and sometimes very correctly in such, but the presence of alternatives that effectively function and actually work is extremely rare, to not say non-existant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    What I'm saying - I don't understand your reference to the communist regimes, and the references to Libya and Benghazi, in the context of my post 42.( "a nationalist solution is not a solution, for those who believe in a liberal democracy")

    Your reference to Stalin's purges/ Cambodian genocide/ and western interventions in the middle east seems out of context.There are those who believe in a liberal democracy, and there are those who believe in illiberal, racist, xenophobic regimes, and that's it.

    -----
    Look - after I've corrected myself 3 times I have the right to consider you're repeating a strawman man fallacy. Boring!
    Last edited by fkizz; December 13, 2018 at 09:59 AM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  16. #76

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    What ethnic replacement? Have you been reading Breitbart again Basil?
    Breitbart aka the UN demographic department:
    http://www.un.org/en/development/des...igration.shtml

    Besides, every demographic study shows that at the current trend, Western Europeans will become minorities in their own countries from 2060 to 2080.

    Eg:
    UK:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...professor.html
    Italy:
    https://www.centromachiavelli.com/wp...a-italiana.pdf

    So yeah, how do we stop this ethnic replacement perpetrated by liberals?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    As for the whole ridiculous immigrant argument in America... Jesus ing Christ. Here's a CATO study.
    Same thing posted by Vanoi. I made a very specific claim (and posted the data supporting it), the argument is over. You can't disprove an argument based on nation wide data with Texas data. Speaking of strawmans.

  17. #77

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Breitbart aka the UN demographic department:
    http://www.un.org/en/development/des...igration.shtml

    Besides, every demographic study shows that at the current trend, Western Europeans will become minorities in their own countries from 2060 to 2080.

    Eg:
    UK:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...professor.html
    Italy:
    https://www.centromachiavelli.com/wp...a-italiana.pdf

    So yeah, how do we stop this ethnic replacement perpetrated by liberals?
    The study in question.



    So you're telling me, that British people should be panicking over being, by far, the largest group in UK in 2056? And that's if population trends stay the same, which they won't.

    The authors found that fertility does indeed vary by
    immigrant generation, with significant declines between the
    first and subsequent generations for groups with large immigrant
    populations (Figure 1). Fertility rates are much higher
    for immigrant Hispanics than for their U.S.-born counterparts,
    whose rates exceed the overall state average. For Asians,
    these rates are relatively low for immigrants but extremely
    low for U.S.-born mothers. Among whites, fertility rates for
    immigrants are slightly higher than those for the U.S.-born,
    and among African-Americans, there is virtually no difference
    between the two groups. These results indicate that
    immigrant generation is strongly associated with fertility
    outcomes for the groups in California with the largest immigrant
    populations.
    Yet the authors also found that personal characteristics—
    such as educational attainment, marital status, and income
    levels—are much more important than immigrant generation
    in understanding fertility outcomes. In fact, generations
    are not independently important once these personal characteristics
    are controlled for. The authors maintain that declining
    fertility levels among the descendants of Mexican and
    Central American immigrants are primarily the result of
    higher educational attainment levels, lower rates of marriage,
    and lower poverty.
    Yeah man, real ing genocide we got going on here. By the 22nd century, maybe those Brown people, might actually outnumber native British. God forbid, they might even outnumber all White people after 150 years of solid ing with no change in fertility rates whatsoever.

    Same thing posted by Vanoi. I made a very specific claim (and posted the data supporting it), the argument is over. You can't disprove an argument based on nation wide data with Texas data. Speaking of strawmans.
    Over? No my friend, you haven't posted any credible evidence whatsoever. You can't selectively exclude information that doesn't fit your narrative, especially when it's included in the study.




    So, we take a baseline 898 Native White incarcerations per 100,000.

    Meanwhile, illegals from Middle East 348. Illegals from Africa, 768. Illegals from Other North America, (presumably mostly Mexicans), 347. Latin America, 1107. However, funny thing about Latin America. CATO on the matter,

    For illegal immigrants,
    those from Latin America have the highest incarceration
    rate of any group—in part because they are more likely to
    be incarcerated for immigration offenses and in ICE detention
    facilities than immigrants from any other region
    —followed
    by those from Africa.
    Because you know, being detained because of immigrant offenses like, oh I don't know, crossing the border illegally, is the same as an actual crime like drug trafficking, or violence, or whatever.

    Cato's concluding remarks.

    The pattern is even more pronounced for legal immigrants:
    those who immigrated between the ages of 0 and 17
    were 224 percent more likely to be incarcerated than legal immigrants
    who came at later ages, again suggesting that those
    old enough to choose to come legally to the United States are
    more law-abiding. At least two nonmutually exclusive theories
    can explain why those who entered in their youth have
    higher incarceration rates. First, spending part of one’s childhood
    in the relatively high-crime United States assimilates
    many immigrants to our high-crime culture.
    A second theory
    is that those who decide to come here have some systematically
    different characteristics that make them less likely to be
    incarcerated,
    whereas those who are too young to make the
    decision to immigrate do not.

  18. #78
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    One refered to Internationalism of the century past, in the Marxist-Leninism sense, or Maoist-Guerrila, and the other to "Democratic" Globalism of the present, which, despite belonging in different bags, have internationalism as transversal to them,
    I understood everything you said. I was talking about liberal democracies. You will notice that I haven't mentioned "democratic internationalism". It's not my coup of tea. We really don't need an "indispensable global leader" of the free world.
    That being said, globalization, the increased interconnectedness and interdependence of peoples and countries, is not necessarily a bad thing, in order to increase fast flows of goods, services, finance, people and ideas.
    Aren't you proud of your country?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Why was this book written?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    You see, even today, in the modern world, there is more to trade than just commodities.
    A liberal democracy and liberal internationalism are not exactly the same thing. A liberal democracy is a democratic system of government in which individual rights and freedoms are officially recognized and protected, and the exercise of political power is limited by the rule of law.Period.
    By contrast, a nationalistic, illiberal "democracy" (eg. Turkey, Russia,Hungary,etc) is characterized by a lack of popular sovereignty and the nearly unlimited power of the sovereign leader (see Putin,Orban, etc).

    Those "indispensable"leaders completely bastardized the Max Weber notion of "Führerdemokratie"; ironically, they promote a nationalist interpretation of Gramsci's theory of hegemony. In doubt, listen to Orban's relentless propaganda.
    For them, everything is a conflict between friends and foes, for them what matters is the "real politics" of "real people" (Trump's paradox, he is the President of a liberal democracy).
    The illiberal leaders have a common characteristic: a gradual move in an authoritarian direction, and, as soon as possible, a firm constrain of the political activity of citizens.
    They despise human rights, they despise the protection of minorities, they despise the rule of law, checks and balances, constitutionalism, civil liberties, and the separation of powers. All nationalist regimes are illiberal regimes.
    Although democracy cannot function properly unless some moderate/defensive/non aggressive components of nationalism are present -in fact,in my opinion they are indispensable-the truth is,the illiberal neo-nationalistic regimes are not truly democratic.
    We all know how it ends.

    ---------
    Back to the topic. In the aftermath of the French crisis, Spain to raise minimum wage by 22% in 2019 - EWN
    “A rich country can’t have poor workers,” said Sanchez.
    Last edited by Ludicus; December 13, 2018 at 01:19 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  19. #79

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    The study in question.


    So you're telling me, that British people should be panicking over being, by far, the largest group in UK in 2056? And that's if population trends stay the same, which they won't.

    Yeah man, real ing genocide we got going on here. By the 22nd century, maybe those Brown people, might actually outnumber native British. God forbid, they might even outnumber all White people after 150 years of solid ing with no change in fertility rates whatsoever.
    So British people, just like anyone else in Western Europe, should be ing ok with becoming a minority in their homeland because ''2056'' is far away? Are you ing serious with this crap? ''Hey it's just 40 years from now, don't worry''.

    Besides, those studies were made 2 decades ago, since then the trend has actually accelerated, so it'll be before that. But hey ''you'll still the largest group''. Again, are you ing serious? Then what? ''Hey you are no longer the majority nor the largest group but don't protest otherwise you hate brown people''.

    And I love this ing manipulation you liberals do: ''why do you hate brown people''. No we don't. That doesn't mean we should be shamed and manipulated into losing our homelands by the likes of yourself.

    So let me ask you back: why do you liberals want white people to become minorities wherever they live? What do you have against white people? Why are you so ing obsessed with race?

    Regardless, this is why I'm glad that liberal human garbage Macron and his moronoc liberal ''experts'' that you advocate for are getting a thoroughly deserved baseball bat to the teeth. Keep pushing the ethnic replacement of French people. See what happens. As I said, there's no room for discussion with people who want ethnic cleansing. We split societies, we build a wall, we never want to hear from you again. We'll just watch when your open borders and diversity idea goes up in flames, like France right now.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    So, we take a baseline 898 Native White incarcerations per 100,000.

    Meanwhile, illegals from Middle East 348. Illegals from Africa, 768. Illegals from Other North America, (presumably mostly Mexicans), 347. Latin America, 1107. However, funny thing about Latin America. CATO on the matter,



    Because you know, being detained because of immigrant offenses like, oh I don't know, crossing the border illegally, is the same as an actual crime like drug trafficking, or violence, or whatever.

    Cato's concluding remarks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post

    Let's look at the data by ethnicty first.
    N. of inmates per 100.000 inhabitants.
    Whites: 450
    Hispanic: 831
    Black: 2306
    https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/rates.html
    Obviously that doesn't solve the issue yet, because I specifically claimed that immigrants have a higher rate than whites, but lower than blacks.

    Now let's pick the data by status citizen/legal/illegal, provided by Cato, same ratio as before per 100,000 inhabitants.
    Natives: 1521.
    Legal immigrants: 325.
    Illegal immigrants: 800.
    https://www.cato.org/publications/im...untries-origin
    Total for immigrants : 325+800=1125 per 100,000 inhabitants.

    Put it back into the race categories:
    Whites: 450
    Hispanic: 851.
    All immigrants: 1125
    Blacks: 2306.
    Posted before, stop trying to change my claim, it was very specific and accurate:
    Once you exclude African Americans, immigrants in the US have a higher incarceration rate than whites and Asians (and Hispanics).

    What you did is strawman my argument with irrelevant data: legal vs illegal immigrant is irrelevant to my claim. Just like origin of the immigrant is.

    My claim is correct. Take your strawman to some retarded lying genocidal liberal media who will believe it.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On topic:
    Gilet Jaunes protests in Belgium and the Netherlands.

    May God Emperor Trump bless them. Down with the globalist elite.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUiP6CClqc
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; December 13, 2018 at 02:04 PM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: The Uprising of the Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    So British people, just like anyone else in Western Europe, should be ing ok with becoming a minority in their homeland because ''2056'' is far away? Are you ing serious with this crap? ''Hey it's just 40 years from now, don't worry''.

    Besides, those studies were made 2 decades ago, since then the trend has actually accelerated, so it'll be before that. But hey ''you'll still the largest group''. Again, are you ing serious? Then what? ''Hey you are no longer the majority nor the largest group but don't protest otherwise you hate brown people''.

    And I love this ing manipulation you liberals do: ''why do you hate brown people''. No we don't. That doesn't mean we should be shamed and manipulated into losing our homelands by the likes of yourself.

    So let me ask you back: why do you liberals want white people to become minorities wherever they live? What do you have against white people? Why are you so ing obsessed with race?

    Regardless, this is why I'm glad that liberal human garbage Macron and his moronoc liberal ''experts'' that you advocate for are getting a thoroughly deserved baseball bat to the teeth. Keep pushing the ethnic replacement of French people. See what happens. As I said, there's no room for discussion with people who want ethnic cleansing. We split societies, we build a wall, we never want to hear from you again. We'll just watch when your open borders and diversity idea goes up in flames, like France right now.
    2056 is 38 years away. If I had a child today, they'd be middle-aged by that time. By 2056 I'm going to be 62. Yeah, it's a long time away, by any normal human standards. World War 2 was only 73 years away. That study was made in 2010, so I have no clue what you're talking about. For one thing, I didn't even pick it, you did. Moreover they would remain the largest group, by far. All the minorities added together would add up to 44%, and that's lumping in Irish with Nigerians. In fact, the largest "minority" in UK by 2056 will be "Other Whites". Only slightly subhuman, I'm sure that'll put your worries to rest. Yeah dude, "losing your homeland". Melodramatic much? Apparently with good reason, since I deserve a bat to my teeth for even daring to insinuate that not only will White British still dominate their land numerically, economically, and politically, but their "greatest threat" will be a combination of the French, the Germans, the Irish, the Polish, and the Swedes. The horror. I really can sympathize. Nevermind that states like Arizona and Texas are not only half full of minorities, but the States somehow didn't magically collapse in chaos from the Mexican zombie hordes. In fact, they remained solidly Red until some orange-haired buffoon actually convinced people to vote Blue. Shocking, I realize.

    Posted before, stop trying to change my claim, it was very specific and accurate:
    Once you exclude African Americans, immigrants in the US have a higher incarceration rate than whites and Asians (and Hispanics).

    What you did is strawman my argument with irrelevant data: legal vs illegal immigrant is irrelevant to my claim. Just like origin of the immigrant is.

    My claim is correct. Take your strawman to some retarded lying genocidal liberal media who will believe it.
    Strawman? You used numbers from two different sets of data. I literally had to read the study you yourself linked to correct your fudged numbers and give them context. This is coming from the guy, who literally, just finished complaining about

    A complete destruction of the peer-reviewing process and the scientific method

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