Public order is making me really mad

[gangster19]

So I've been enjoying my KH campaign so far, with lots of drama and great conquests. However, since a few turns from now, the game is almost unplayable because of the public order. I'm on H/H and never had a problem with this, but now suddenly a lot of cities rebel spontaneously (they're yellow or blue and in the turn end a revolt starts).

Also, a very weird thing happens. All my cities have better public order if there's no governor in them. I check out every trait and ancillary and even if they're all positive, when I put the governor in tje city, the public order decreases like a 30%. So right now I leave all the generals out of the cities and they sometimes rebel... But it's better than having them inside and making the whole city rebel. I filled all my cities with spies but nothing is changing.

For example, I have a governor in a city and shows me red public order. I take him out and the public order becomes yellow. The next turn I bring him in again and the city is still in yellow even with him inside. Then after a turn or two again it's red and I hace to repeat. I don't find any logic in this...

Could this be a bug or something? I think maybe it has to do with the hellenic reforms... But I don't know, I remember to have completed them. Please help!

[qwertykov]

How many turns are you at?
Are the rebellious cities Huge cities or even the small cities are rebellious as well?
Also which cities in particular by the way?
Do your governors have high influence?
How does your Faction Leader fare as governor?
Does he improve unrest or make them more rebellious?

[gangster19]

How many turns are you at?
Are the rebellious cities Huge cities or even the small cities are rebellious as well?
Also which cities in particular by the way?
Do your governors have high influence?
How does your Faction Leader fare as governor?
Does he improve unrest or make them more rebellious?

Hi, I hope this clarify things, I took some pictures of the current state of my campaign. As you see, in Petra I have a very good general but the city seems better governed without him. In Singidunon, the city is blue with the general but after the turn it becomes red (this happens to 4 or 5 cities). Also I added a picture of Athens and the level it has (I remember seeing something about the Sympoliteia being complete, and that revolts were over).

[Frtigern]

May have to do with govt type. Greek city states and Hellenic western Greek ones that arent KH have public order hits, forgot the name of it. Theres two kinds, but you can see them in the buildings, which I suspect is the way they stimulated the historical unrest at the time. One has a wall it looks like on top of a column building and the other has a spear on it (public strife?). Basically, build an allied govt so as not to incur negative public order penalties.

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

[gangster19]

May have to do with govt type. Greek city states and Hellenic western Greek ones that arent KH have public order hits, forgot the name of it. Theres two kinds, but you can see them in the buildings, which I suspect is the way they stimulated the historical unrest at the time. One has a wall it looks like on top of a column building and the other has a spear on it (public strife?). Basically, build an allied govt so as not to incur negative public order penalties.

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

I don't know... this happens to me with different types of government (Democracy, Oligarchy, Tributary state...

[QuintusSertorius]

The general Hellenistic reforms have nothing whatsoever to do with order, they're just flags for the change of military practises.

KH's own reforms do have revolt-linked mechanics involved with them. Have you reached the post-Sympoliteia stage of the reforms? There are 16 turns of unrest before that happens.

There's also the Stasis and Autonomia features, if you choose non-Allied governments for Greece as a Greek faction, you get order penalties. Those don't disappear for KH until the end of their faction's reform.

[gangster19]

The general Hellenistic reforms have nothing whatsoever to do with order, they're just flags for the change of military practises.

KH's own reforms do have revolt-linked mechanics involved with them. Have you reached the post-Sympoliteia stage of the reforms? There are 16 turns of unrest before that happens.

There's also the Stasis and Autonomia features, if you choose non-Allied governments for Greece as a Greek faction, you get order penalties. Those don't disappear for KH until the end of their faction's reform.

I have completed all the KH reforms (I remember seeing something about the Sympoliteia being complete, and that revolts were over). I haven't seen anything about Hellenistic reforms, though. In the pictures I uploaded you can see the kinds of government and what do I have in Athens

[Genghis Skahn]

Both the cities shown in the screenshot are on the fringes of your empire in non-greek areas. It would be more helpful to post the offending governor's character sheets to see if there are any nasty traits causing public order maluses IMO.

FTR in the past the team has noticed a mysterious public order drop that can come from a governor entering a previously ungoverned city(provided he does not have a host of order increasing traits for eg.), but it wasn't anything game breaking for the most part.

[gangster19]

Both the cities shown in the screenshot are on the fringes of your empire in non-greek areas. It would be more helpful to post the offending governor's character sheets to see if there are any nasty traits causing public order maluses IMO.

FTR in the past the team has noticed a mysterious public order drop that can come from a governor entering a previously ungoverned city(provided he does not have a host of order increasing traits for eg.), but it wasn't anything game breaking for the most part.

It happens also in some central regions, but not so much. Also I realized in Petra they give a 25 garrison bonus for public order, even almost is full stack. Is that normal? Also they are in red for lots of turns and don't revolt, but in some cities after a turn in red they revolt... i'm missing a lot of things about the gameplay mechanics (I read the player guide pdf but doesn't say anything about this...). Where can I find a complete guide about the mod?

[QuintusSertorius]

It happens also in some central regions, but not so much. Also I realized in Petra they give a 25 garrison bonus for public order, even almost is full stack. Is that normal? Also they are in red for lots of turns and don't revolt, but in some cities after a turn in red they revolt... i'm missing a lot of things about the gameplay mechanics (I read the player guide pdf but doesn't say anything about this...). Where can I find a complete guide about the mod?

It's a camp; order bonuses for garrisons are halved, just as order penalties for distance are also halved.

[qwertykov]

It's a camp; order bonuses for garrisons are halved, just as order penalties for distance are also halved.

Why is Petra a camp and not a city?

[gangster19]

Ok people, I actually realized what is going on after reading all your answers. I conquered, made an client state and didn't actually recruit the client ruler. So I put a family member to rule and it gave the interloper negative trait. When I took him out after a turn it went out, I put it again in the city and again the negative trait appeared. I'm gonna rebuild every client state and recruit the rulers properly. By the way, if the ruler dies, what do I have to do? Destroy the client state and re build it again? Thank you so much for the ideas!

[Lusitanio]

Ok people, I actually realized what is going on after reading all your answers. I conquered, made an client state and didn't actually recruit the client ruler. So I put a family member to rule and it gave the interloper negative trait. When I took him out after a turn it went out, I put it again in the city and again the negative trait appeared. I'm gonna rebuild every client state and recruit the rulers properly. By the way, if the ruler dies, what do I have to do? Destroy the client state and re build it again? Thank you so much for the ideas!

Yes, you have to destroy the building and rebuild again. It represents the change in government and the problems that arise from it

[Roma_Victrix]

A lot of things affect this, but the major ones are placing governors in cities where you've already built an allied democracy or oligarchy government. You need a core factional government if you want to place a governor there instead of recruiting a local governor/general and client ruler bodyguard unit from an allied vassal government building. This allows your settlement time to convert to your Hellenistic culture. Also, you should focus on building infrastructure that improves public order right away and build stuff that improves finances and population growth later on. As others have alluded here, there are also problems with certain cities in the Hellenistic Greek sphere, especially in mainland Greece, where certain cities have very poor public order if you do not construct an allied democracy or oligarchy.

If it really drives you nuts and you feel helpless about it, you can always reconquer those cities and enslave/exterminate the populace. If you're really desperate, you can also cheat! You can decrease the population of any city this way, which usually undercuts unrest. Use this is a last resort, though, especially since recruiting a local client ruler usually solves the public order problem for a few decades, bringing stability and ensuring your culture spreads.

For the cheat, open up the console with the "~" button on your keyboard while staring at the campaign map. Type in the following, with the city of "Sparte" as an example, but any city, town, or nomadic camp can work with this cheat:

add_population "Sparte" -4000

Notice how there is a minus symbol "-" before the number 4000. You need that, otherwise you'll be adding people to your settlement. LOL. If the city has such a huge population that lowering taxes after that still doesn't help, just continue the cheat above, using the enter key in the console, until the settlement decides to be a good girl and behaves itself. Like everything in life, the game just needs a good spanking when it decides to throw a temper tantrum and defy you, its master, in your quest for fun and diversion.

[qwertykov]

Both the cities shown in the screenshot are on the fringes of your empire in non-greek areas. It would be more helpful to post the offending governor's character sheets to see if there are any nasty traits causing public order maluses IMO.

Interesting!

The "governor" you have placed in Singidunon is 18 years old with a +1 influence. Doesn't seem right to me... Maybe the city is rejecting your underqualified governor lol..

But personally, I wouldn't let a super junior FM with weak stats and experience lead an army to take a city or govern one.. (for obvious reasons)

*Also could we see Niarchos Rhodios list of traits? Perhaps he is not of local ethnicity with could affect his influence and effectiveness outside of his homeland/comfort zone?

[qwertykov]

If it really drives you nuts and you feel helpless about it, you can always reconquer those cities and enslave/exterminate the populace. You can decrease the population of any city this way, which usually undercuts unrest.

I have done that before as a last resort and it works. For historically rebellious cities eg Syracuse, it is a brutal but effective method to show them who is boss. Hehe

[gangster19]

Interesting!

The "governor" you have placed in Singidunon is 18 years old with a +1 influence. Doesn't seem right to me... Maybe the city is rejecting your underqualified governor lol..

But personally, I wouldn't let a super junior FM with weak stats and experience lead an army to take a city or govern one.. (for obvious reasons)

*Also could we see Niarchos Rhodios list of traits? Perhaps he is not of local ethnicity with could affect his influence and effectiveness outside of his homeland/comfort zone?

I didn't realize there was actually a bad trait for my governors in the client cities, as I said before. It gave them the interloper trait, that decreases public order and that was the main problem. Now that I actually recruit correctly the rulers, it's fine!

[gangster19]

A lot of things affect this, but the major ones are placing governors in cities where you've already built an allied democracy or oligarchy government. You need a core factional government if you want to place a governor there instead of recruiting a local governor/general and client ruler bodyguard unit from an allied vassal government building. This allows your settlement time to convert to your Hellenistic culture. Also, you should focus on building infrastructure that improves public order right away and build stuff that improves finances and population growth later on. As others have alluded here, there are also problems with certain cities in the Hellenistic Greek sphere, especially in mainland Greece, where certain cities have very poor public order if you do not construct an allied democracy or oligarchy.

If it really drives you nuts and you feel helpless about it, you can always reconquer those cities and enslave/exterminate the populace. If you're really desperate, you can also cheat! You can decrease the population of any city this way, which usually undercuts unrest. Use this is a last resort, though, especially since recruiting a local client ruler usually solves the public order problem for a few decades, bringing stability and ensuring your culture spreads.

For the cheat, open up the console with the "~" button on your keyboard while staring at the campaign map. Type in the following, with the city of "Sparte" as an example, but any city, town, or nomadic camp can work with this cheat:

add_population "Sparte" -4000

Notice how there is a minus symbol "-" before the number 4000. You need that, otherwise you'll be adding people to your settlement. LOL. If the city has such a huge population that lowering taxes after that still doesn't help, just continue the cheat above, using the enter key in the console, until the settlement decides to be a good girl and behaves itself. Like everything in life, the game just needs a good spanking when it decides to throw a temper tantrum and defy you, its master, in your quest for fun and diversion.

Thank you for the answer! Actually, with the reforms I'm doing in my empire I'm doing fine, also I hate cheating . One thing I don't understand is when I can build only client states or actually a factional government... These things aren't explained anywhere right?

[Genghis Skahn]

Well then, that solves that. The Interloper trait is more than enough to explain such order maluses IMO. Case closed.

Why is Petra a camp and not a city?

Because in the early period for the Nabateans, to my understanding, it was not as important as an urban centre as it would later become. At the game start, most of the Nabatu are still living nomadic lifestyles. As time progressed, the Nabateans became more and more settled/urbanized(switching to agriculture, building famous aqueducts etc.), but it really just doesn't make sense for Rekem to start out either as a full urban province or a pastoral settlement just yet IMO.

[Roma_Victrix]

Well then, that solves that. The Interloper trait is more than enough to explain such order maluses IMO. Case closed.

To be honest, the EBII team needs to make this much clearer in the forum or even the welcoming message and building info scrolls of the campaign map for newbies who don't know all the mechanics and how everything works. This mod is VERY sensitive when it comes to public order issues and if you don't know what you're doing, your empire could fall apart in a few turns of mismanagement. That being said, I've managed to play Makedonia and Koinon Hellenon campaigns into the 1st century BC where I conquer all of Western Europe including the British Isles, the Mediterranean including North Africa, and the entire rim of the Black Sea. It can be done! It's just a huge pain in the ass to get there, filled with revolts, bad governors, assassinated generals, and worst of all client ruler governors who get killed by plagues or earthquakes. If you don't recruit another client ruler fast enough in some cases, the settlement revolts from crap public order and rioting.

My Macedon FL Antigonos Gonatas acquired the trait "Extremely Unhappy People" +3 Unrest.. How should he get rid of this undesirable trait because I intend to make him a governor of Athens..

How does one gain the "Happy People" trait then?

I think he's already a lost cause, bro. You'd have to spend a decade or more sticking him in a high public order settlement and have him babysit as governor while you build nothing but cultural and educational buildings that might improve his traits. That's not even a guarantee, though, seeing how the game sometimes decides to be totally random and gives your generals/family members traits indicating that they are insane and use various cheeses for religious divination, seeking omens from the gods. LOL.