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Thread: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

  1. #181
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    The Antifa is infested with thugs, no doubt about it. I don't care anymore about the old formula of "some, but not all". If there's too many bad apples in a group i will not like and possibly despise them. And? What's the problem? Do i have to kiss and hug everybody? There's 7.5 Billion people on earth. Human life isn't so precious anymore. In fact i think it's an intrinsic aspect of postmodern individualism to resent the masses for being noisy, smelly and stupid. I have not a jot of sympathy left for them.

  2. #182

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Rape and slavery are crimes. Being an oligopoly is not. Free speech not extending to private entities isn't a crime either.



    They control what said on their platforms as I their right as a business. They don't control the Internet.
    If their platforms extend their influence too much then they do - which is why there is nothing wrong with forcing big tech to give platform to everyone.

  3. #183

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    The Antifa is infested with thugs, no doubt about it.
    As is the far-right. Believe it or not, and this may shock you, but extremist politics tends to attract arseholes.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    I don't care anymore about the old formula of "some, but not all". If there's too many bad apples in a group i will not like and possibly despise them.
    So you must hate the far-right too presumably because I don't see antifa or the hard left committing terrorist atrocities.But you don't presumably because of your cognitive dissonance.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    And? What's the problem? Do i have to kiss and hug everybody? There's 7.5 Billion people on earth. Human life isn't so precious anymore. In fact i think it's an intrinsic aspect of postmodern individualism to resent the masses for being noisy, smelly and stupid. I have not a jot of sympathy left for them.
    No one is suggesting you have to love, or even like, everyone. But generalising and hating a whole group of people because of a small select few is stupid to the extreme.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    Actually, here is a video of just such a gang:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTICRE0EMs8

    They call them "Antifascist Patrols" here in Greece.
    There are many more such videos from various cities in Greece.

    If you were to cross their path and you happen to "look like a fascist" to them (ie you have your head shaved, you are muscular, or whatnot, you would be in trouble, attacked by multiple assailants).
    There are numerous examples of individuals who have, actually being attacked by such gangs.
    But you shouldn't be worried. I am sure that you would be perfectly safe from them.

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  5. #185
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Ummm, how about nothing? ...Or better still, abolish hate-speech? After all, it is as much of a joke as blasphemy-laws are. The
    only difference is that instead of the devout and pious screaming out in indignation - it is the leftists and PC-crowd instead...

    Seriously, I would rather have "free speech" then "mostly free speech". If that means that people are free to spew out whatever
    blasphemy, insults, mockery, racism and disrespect they like - then so be it. I can live with that...

    - A

  6. #186
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    ...because I don't see antifa or the hard left committing terrorist atrocities.But you don't presumably because of your cognitive dissonance.
    That is probably because you are ignorant and don't know enough socialist and communist-history... Study some, you can start with the "Rote Armee Fraktion".

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    No one is suggesting you have to love, or even like, everyone. But generalising and hating a whole group of people because of a small select few is stupid to the extreme.
    Personally, I think it is exceptionally stupid and naive to like and forgive a whole collective/group because of a "few good people" may be present there. If the majority of the group are vermin - then the few that are not do not excuse or redeem the group as a whole, now do they? I am sure I can conjure up some good Nazis, for instance - if I just try hard enough here (how about Oskar Schindler, Albert Speer, Heinz Guderian or Claus von Stauffenberg?) - does that mean that we should condone Nazis in general or the movement that they actively served? Or the results that this movement generated? ...?...

    Same thing applies to movements and groups like Antifa.

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; April 09, 2019 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Yummy...

  7. #187

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    That is probably because you are ignorant and don't know enough socialist and communist-history... Study some, you can start with the "Rote Armee Fraktion".
    Listing a bunch of defunct terrorist organisations from the 70's and 80's is hardly the same thing. Especially when you currently have the far-right doing things like this...

    Christchurch mosque shootings
    Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
    Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre
    The murder of Jo Cox
    Charlottesville
    Charleston church shooting

    I could go on and list every far-right terrorist act of the last few years, but I think I've made my point. Basically when the Head of Counter-Terrorism says the Far-Right is a threat, then I'd tend to believe him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43200966

    What was I saying about cognitive dissonance? Time to take your head out of the sand and acknowledge what's actually happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Personally, I think it is exceptionally stupid and naive to like and forgive a whole collective/group because of a "few good people" may be present there. If the majority of the group are vermin - then the few that are not do not excuse or redeem the group as a whole, now do they? I am sure I can conjure up some good Nazis, for instance - if I just try hard enough here (how about Oskar Schindler, Albert Speer, Heinz Guderian or Claus von Stauffenberg?) - does that mean that we should condone Nazis in general or the movement that they actively served? Or the results that this movement generated? ...?...

    Same thing applies to movements and groups like Antifa.

    - A
    How do you determine if a group is 'vermin'? By their skin-colour? By the fact that they share different political views to you?

    Declaring an entire subsection of people to be 'vermin' is hateful and exactly the same thing the Nazis used to do...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Nazi_propaganda

  8. #188
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Calling Nazis vermin is what the Nazis used to do?

    Here’s a summary of Terrorism in the UK. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terr...United_Kingdom

    What about targeting racial and religious identitarianism, as that seems to be the problem, as well as people who want an all-powerful state.

    I don’t think it’s fair to tar non-socialist left wing parties with left wing terrorism, nor to tar right wing parties with the activities of National Socialist groups.

    If we want to talk about types of terrorism:

    Last edited by Aexodus; April 09, 2019 at 01:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  9. #189
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Obviously hate speech needs to be deplatformed, prosecuted, stamped-out etc. We can all agree that racists are bad guys.
    But the fact remains that the current definitions of hate speech (both colloquial and legal) are so absurdly broad to be worth less than nothing and are in fact producing legitimate (and evidently compelling) grounds for an argument against laws governing hate speech all together. Causing traditional racists (who are in minority) to ally with liberals defending free-speech and conservatives who dream of recapturing a fictitious past, united against authoritarian-'liberals' and conservatives jumping on the virtue-signalling bandwagon alongside racists who hate white people. It's a bizarre situation and I think will prove to be the defining feature of political and social dialogue moving forward. If dialogue will even be possible in the future, given how implacable the two sides have become concerning their consistent inability to be accurately understood by the other side. Dialogue seems increasable unlikely when two sides refuse to use even a mutually comprehensible common language. This thread stands as testament.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
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  10. #190

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    What laws against hate speech in the US do you have problems with?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  11. #191

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    Dialogue seems increasable unlikely when two sides refuse to use even a mutually comprehensible common language. This thread stands as testament.
    Which goes well with the point that I raised earlier - the only way to maintain dialogue is to allow free market of opinions. You can't have a rational debate when speech is limited by whims of government officials. Authoritarianism doesn't flourish well in societies where speech isn't limited by the government.

  12. #192
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    What laws against hate speech in the US do you have problems with?
    Probably none thanks to the first amendment
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  13. #193

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Probably none thanks to the first amendment
    Considering the fact that the First Amendment only really applies in the US, a country you don't live in, that's a bit of a cop-out answer.

  14. #194

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Considering the fact that the First Amendment only really applies in the US, a country you don't live in, that's a bit of a cop-out answer.
    Considering that the question was about the US, how is it a 'cop-out answer'?

    Of course the question itself ("What laws against hate speech in the US do you have problems with?") seems rather irrelevant, since Himster is in Ireland, and did not mention the US in his comments.

    And, the US does not have hate speech laws.

  15. #195
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Considering the fact that the First Amendment only really applies in the US, a country you don't live in, that's a bit of a cop-out answer.
    If you want to talk about hatespeech laws in the UK, I’ve got a laundry list of problems, starting with section 127, which should be repealed in its entirety.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  16. #196

    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    If you want to talk about hatespeech laws in the UK, I’ve got a laundry list of problems, starting with section 127, which should be repealed in its entirety.
    Why? Is the right to be a racist troll that important to you?

  17. #197
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Why? Is the right to be a racist troll that important to you?
    You are approaching this (totally) backwards... The real question is this - is the need to suppress "a [supposed] racist troll that important to you?" If the answer is "yes" - you are actively taking your first step to "mostly free speech" and it will only get worse from that point onwards. Much worse, then having some potential racist spewing out his/her opinions publicly (whatever those opinions may be. After all, racism and racists are highly variable and almost arbitrary concepts these days).

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; April 11, 2019 at 01:57 PM. Reason: clarity...

  18. #198
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Why? Is the right to be a racist troll that important to you?
    It is important to three kinds of people. The first (and most important) is all sincere liberals, who understand the value of the marketplace of ideas. The second type is a handful of right wing extremists who hold racist views. The third is a group of misanthropic autistic nerds who can only find pleasure in life by angering gullible fools.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  19. #199
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    If their platforms extend their influence too much then they do - which is why there is nothing wrong with forcing big tech to give platform to everyone.
    Their platform is their private platform. They shouldn't be forced at all to made it public just like newspapers and cable TV can't be forced to air or print your opinion.

    You don't want a public platform. You just want to force people to hear what you have to say.

  20. #200
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Far right hate speech. What should be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Why? Is the right to be a racist troll that important to you?
    The right to free speech is important to me yes, and section 127 is the law Mark Meecham was arrested for, as well as a girl from Liverpool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

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