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Thread: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

  1. #1
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    I would like to first share with you discussions between Censures and the Curator's Assistant (another issue actually, but get to that in another day).

    Discussion Source
    It's a pretty nasty accusation, with a very clear veiled insult.But I don't know what to do with it, if I'm honest. I think it's a borderline comment; it would be harsh to hand out a censure, but I don't like to let it slide either.
    I believe we sent a warning before. It's not something official but it can be done again if the two of you want it so
    I suppose we could do that. Like a "we've dismissed your case, but we're not happy with you, so you'll be on thin ice for a while" kind of thing. Although it does just feel like a censure-lite, which seems kind of redundant.
    well I would hold nothing against a warning if there is precedent for it
    I guess we can dismiss then and send an informal warning.
    Voted.
    let us do that then also voted
    If either if you want to draft a message for ... I'll gladly send it.
    The "warning" that is not a warning.
    The Citizen's Triumvirate has decided to dismiss your referral (XXXIII) and take no further action against you. However, whilst no official action will be taken, the Censors found your comments to be borderline, and they advise you against similar rhetoric in the future. This case will be archived publicly as you requested.

    If you have any further questions please do not ever hesitate to get in touch.


    Yours sincerely,
    Here is a second discussion (Source)
    I agree tough it is quite clear that this continuing battle between them needs to stop so I go with demissal with waring since there is nothing personal or uncitizen like here
    That's of course a possibility. However with ....resignation from citizenship (Though by all means he still is a citizen) I wonder if such a warning message would be very useful.
    Very well we will go for dismiss with a warning that the feud with Pike will no longer be tolerated to be delivered when and if he rejoins citizenship. Censure would be all but useless if he resigned.
    dismiss too with a warning to be delivered when returning agreed
    We do not see a drafted letter presumably because I made this post right about the same time.


    A Censure is an expression of a formal disapproval. When the Triumvirate dismisses a case, they are stating that the action or behavior is not conducted unbecoming a citizen. You cannot dismiss a case and issue a reprimand. They had attempted to work around the "formal" term bu calling it an "informal reprimand, but you cannot say something is acceptable and not acceptable at the same time. If it is borderline, then issue a Censure. This is why Censure was included to handle borderline cases.




    This is what happens when a Censure is treated like a Curial warning, rather than like a note. This proposal should end the apparent conundrum that seems to have inflicted the Triumvirate as of late. Censure is listed as a "Note."

    We need to restore Censure as the borderline response for conduct that is "borderline." It is counterproductive and it sends the wrong message to conflate Censure with a dismissal of cases.

    As a sidebar move. I am also removing abstain. There is no reason why a sitting Triumvirate member should abstain if they have the option to recuse themselves.

    Constitutional Changes

    5 Four days after requesting a defence, regardless of whether it has been received, a vote is opened by the Curator to conclude after four days with the options to dismiss the Referral, or take further action, or abstain.

    6 If the Citizens' Triumvirate vote to take further action, the Curator opens a second poll for four days. The options are:
    Curial Note;

    • Censure

    Curial Warning;
    • Suspension of Citizenship for 2 weeks
    • Suspension of Citizenship for 1 month
    • Suspension of Citizenship for 2 months
    • Suspension of Citizenship for 3 months
    • Suspension of Citizenship for 4 months
    • Revocation of Citizenship
    • Abstain


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    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"



    Opposed.

    Also, the warning you are quoting is not the final version that was sent.

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    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    "Opposed for the sake of opposing"... Or just plain old opposed... You decide folks!

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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    ^^ Seconded here
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Opposed. I see no good reason for this change, especially considering that citizen referrals were recently done away with.
    Last edited by Tango12345; November 25, 2018 at 10:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    We just got rid of Censure. Let's give it some time before we try to change it again.
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Oppose
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Support

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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Eh, what? Opposed.
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    We just got rid of Censure. Let's give it some time before we try to change it again.
    We didn't get rid of Censure. it just not being used as it was intended.
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    We didn't get rid of Censure. it just not being used as it was intended.
    If Settra is right about the removal of the Censure then I don't really understand what you mean by saying what I bolded in black.

    What has that got to do with the removal of the Censure, if Settra is right about this that is?
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    If Settra is right about the removal of the Censure then I don't really understand what you mean by saying what I bolded in black.

    What has that got to do with the removal of the Censure, if Settra is right about this that is?
    This is answered in the OP. If you read the discussion you will see that the Triumvirate was voting to dismiss while at the same time issuing a "warning" which is a Censure. As a consequence of Censure not being viewed as a "Note" as opposed to being a Curial Warning, it is underutilized and undermining its intended purpose. When you dismiss a case, the Triumvirate is stating that your conduct was not unbecoming. It is a contradiction to dismiss and warn.

    Concerning the "removal," well this was done when the footnote was done that you can see here. If you read the proposal, you will notice in the OP, the changes to that portion of the Constitution was not indicated. There has been more than one discussion on whether or not a censure is a note or warning ever since. Moreover, the Triumvirate will be less likely to issue Censures given the elevated status it has as going too far. The Censure has a "note" struck a nice balance between sending a message and a warning.

    I am actually a little surprising that there is any opposition to this proposal.
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    Default Re: Restoration of Censure as a "Curial Note"

    Since this hasn't been posted in for over 28 days, I'm going to go ahead and archive it marking it abandoned.

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