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Thread: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

  1. #1

    Default DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    First of all sorry for my bad english.

    I have played two chapaignes DEI, first as rome and now as macedon. In the beginning it was very challenging and intressting. As Rome it took me like 100 turns+ to just get a steady hold in spain after I took Italy. Factions with two or tree citys constantly charge me with 2 or 3 fullstack armies just to send new ones when been defeated (if they diden't defeat me). Finaly spain was secured, maybe after 150 to 200 turns. After that the game just dies.. Epirus had whole balkan and was not abel to defend it with more than one 15 stack army, apperently not intressted in mustering more. Same thing in asia minor where the selduki had whole nowday turkey, syria and all citys down to egypt, you just go from city to city and take it, the auto gives 80-90% in your favor. The game went from being realy hard no matter how big the faction you fighted was to just be constant rollover of factions with 15+ or more citys but not a single army who tries to defend. It was just boring so after i made it to egypt I ended the champaign

    Now same thin happens in my macedonian champaign. Grece and pergamon is a bloody mess but after it.. Nothing..

    Is there any mod or anything else to make the game intressting? It's kinda boring when you finaly get your good troops after military reform 2 and 3 but there is no single enemy left who will put up a fight or even muster armies to fight you

  2. #2
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    The thing about late-stage campaigns becoming a walk in the park has been a problem for TW games since day 1 and there's been sadly no perfect solution to this ever conceived.

    It's, however, puzzling to hear that those late-game enemy factions have no armies at all. Should that really be the case then there must be something wrong with your game.

    You should list all the mods you are using, plus provide perhaps some savegame files.

    It might be that those factions are simply occupied elsewhere, or that they amass their armies in one centrally-located area, instead of defending their borders.

  3. #3
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Additionally, we are in the middle of beta that touches lots of CAI aspects.
    Official DeI Instagram Account! https://www.instagram.com/divideetimperamod/
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    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    The question is, however, whether OP is actually using that beta-pack.

  5. #5
    ScipioTheGreat's Avatar Miles
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    Default DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Quote Originally Posted by PertinaxRevenge View Post
    First of all sorry for my bad english.

    I have played two chapaignes DEI, first as rome and now as macedon. In the beginning it was very challenging and intressting. As Rome it took me like 100 turns+ to just get a steady hold in spain after I took Italy. Factions with two or tree citys constantly charge me with 2 or 3 fullstack armies just to send new ones when been defeated (if they diden't defeat me). Finaly spain was secured, maybe after 150 to 200 turns. After that the game just dies.. Epirus had whole balkan and was not abel to defend it with more than one 15 stack army, apperently not intressted in mustering more. Same thing in asia minor where the selduki had whole nowday turkey, syria and all citys down to egypt, you just go from city to city and take it, the auto gives 80-90% in your favor. The game went from being realy hard no matter how big the faction you fighted was to just be constant rollover of factions with 15+ or more citys but not a single army who tries to defend. It was just boring so after i made it to egypt I ended the champaign

    Now same thin happens in my macedonian champaign. Grece and pergamon is a bloody mess but after it.. Nothing..

    Is there any mod or anything else to make the game intressting? It's kinda boring when you finaly get your good troops after military reform 2 and 3 but there is no single enemy left who will put up a fight or even muster armies to fight you
    Try using the Beta, should make things a little tougher - especially with the new beta update dropping shortly.

    If you are looking for a way to make late game more chaotic, check out my tech groups sub mod on steam - with one of its features being a diplomacy penalty that will increase for all factions as they advance their military.

    However, if you are looking for an all around more punishing and challenging campaign, my Realism submod overhaul is strictly built for that as well as any users who want to fight for & keep every inch of territory - no matter the turn number or imperium.

    Cheers

  6. #6
    VektorT's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    I have a similar problem and was about to create a topic on the same subject, so I will post here my text about what I think leads or greatly contributes to late game steamroll. I will describe in details the progress of how the game was becaming easier even if I kept fighting strong foes.

    Coming back to Rome 2 and DEI after, dunno, maybe 2 years, between relearning the old stuff and learning the new DEI stuff, playing with Rome it took me around 100 turns just to have a stable situation against Carthage. I did not want to capture Africa so I liberated it and tried to use my new liberated allies to conquer Carthage provinces in North Africa. To speed things up, I spend a lot of money bringing the Iberian factions and Massalia to join the war by my side. After making peace with Epirus we even became allies because of the common war against Carthage. Since I had no navy to match, crossing the Mediterranean was super risky and they could disembark in my territory almost at will. The whole war came to a crawl because Carthage did had the muscles to fight all of us off (apart from me, every one else is quite small) so it became a huge big messy attrition war where gains were very slow and casualties always high both from battles, attrition and the bloody carthaginian navy. In short: A LOT OF FUN and something I rarely or never ever experience in any TW game. Around 100~120 turns later, Cartaghe still wasn't defeated, but it lost enough to territory to pose no threat to me anymore, it only had one province around Tripoli, two in western North Africa and Balearic Islands and my iberian and liberated north africans allies eventually put it out of it misery a couple of turns later.

    So far everything is ok, right? Took me ~100 turns and iberians, Massalia, north africans and Epirus to bring Carthage down, and I ended with a bunch of mid-to-powerful allies (Lusitani almost the whole Spain, Carthagian Senate now controls most of western North Africa), and that's when came the problem. Massalia was huge at this point with provinces streatching from Spain to Northern Italy and pushing up against the gauls. Eventually I betrayed Massalia to take advantage of it wars agains the gauls and it frontiers with my iberians allies. Having to fight in all fronts possible, it was unable to resist even if it was one of the most powerful factions at this point. It was logical, right? But would be that multiple front wars against the AI that will eventually end the challange.

    Example... soon after running over Massalia a lot of gauls and germanic factions decided to war me at once, around turn 150~170 I think, and it was the last shadow of a threat I would face. Some of those factions was at war with each other and would have to face me and my allies (wich now included 3 clients states in Raetia et Noricum: Helvetii, Raeti and Nori wich I liberated from Massalia to create a buffer zone; Helvetii will eventually controls two and a half province by itself). Since a couple of gauls and germanic factions was not only fighting wars against their neighbours they also had to face my allies and me. It meant they really wasn't able to focus or amass an army and it was very easy to snipe them one by one. If they was at war only with me and I didn't had so many allies, they could had really challenged me, but since their own homelands wasn't secured and I have a bunch of allies, they were wrecked.

    Same thing would happen with Galatia, that at this point have conquered the whole Asia Minor, and Scordisci, Galatia ally, who have conquered Panonia and Dacia. At first they was a powerful bunch that started to punch through Odryssia, but when they came in contact with Athens and Epirus, who are mine allies and also allied between them and divide the Balkans, they started to have problems. Galatia declared war on Epirus (meaning also me and Athens) before it finished off Odryssia and while it still was at war with Egypt. While it was a powerful faction with a decent ally it put itself in a position it can't defend, fighting both the powerful Egypt in Asia Minor (where it was winning territory up to this point) plus me and the greeks in a whole new front. Even so it was even more powerful than Massalia was, in simply resisted even less because of the multiple fronts and wars with multiple factions strong factions. It advance over Odryssia was quickly reverted and conquered by Epirus and it started to lose all the territories in Asia Minor back to Egypt. Meanwhile I was raiding Scordisci making it unable to help, so Epirus also conquered almost the whole of it. At this point Epirus is by far the most powerful AI faction in the western world, and they just loves me.

    At this point, it became the pattern. While I take the last cities from Galatia in Asia Minor (also Pergamon and Rhodes), Egypt declared war on me (and Epirus, and Athens, and Iberians, my allies) while it still was fighting a faction in the Arabian Peninsula, Cimmeria in the Caucasus and also fighting in North Africa against one of my allies that I liberated from Carthage (I wasn't involved in that war). Again, a powerful faction that should have made my life hard, but they was fighting in so many front against so many people the simply couldn't do anything against me. I took the whole Asia Minor they have taken from Galatia fighting maybe only two stacks and I would only see more when I was already down at Jerusalem. It did called a powerful ally, Media Atropatene that at this point owns the whole Persia region, but guess what, it also already was fighting in the Caucasus and some indians factions in the other side of it territory, and while it was able to move more armies than Egypt, it was quite underwhelming for such a big faction, because they also have to fight in two other fronts.

    So, in short, that was the problem I saw in the late game, it's not exactly AI faction sizes or army management, but it engaging in multiple front wars and being unable to properly respond to them all at once, specially against the player. While I grow stronger and start to have more and better allies, the AI usually have few or poorer allies and keeps fighting a bunch of wars in multiple fronts that lasts forever and even declare war on more factions, like myself, even knowing I have a crap ton of allies wich will mean even more fronts. The AI shouldn't be so agressive when they already are fighting multiple enemies, should seek peace when surrounded or fighting against the odds (Atropatene did once, I accepted, it came back just a few turns later) and should finish off their wars faster, either by being more agressive against a weaker faction or by making peace after it made enough gains. Otherwise they can't focus their strenght against the player and become even easier than way smaller factions in the early game.
    Last edited by VektorT; November 09, 2018 at 08:29 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Quote Originally Posted by ScipioTheGreat View Post
    Try using the Beta, should make things a little tougher - especially with the new beta update dropping shortly.

    If you are looking for a way to make late game more chaotic, check out my tech groups sub mod on steam - with one of its features being a diplomacy penalty that will increase for all factions as they advance their military.

    However, if you are looking for an all around more punishing and challenging campaign, my Realism submod overhaul is strictly built for that as well as any users who want to fight for & keep every inch of territory - no matter the turn number or imperium.

    Cheers
    Is there perhaps an ETA on the release of this update and will it be save game compatible?

  8. #8

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    It will be save compatible, but you can try the beta out now in the other thread. I will be updating it with a few fixes this weekend hopefully.

    While we will do our best to create more mid/late game difficulty, the unfortunate nature of TW games is that eventually you do hit a steamroll point.
    Last edited by Dresden; November 09, 2018 at 02:51 PM.

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  9. #9

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    To be completely 'fair'...

    When we think of the actual Roman 'Empire' history it is not entirely different.

    By the time of the Civil Wars most of the same gains we all make as Roma were made - Carthage destroyed; Iberia & Gaul mostly conquered; all the Greek States Romanised; Egypt subdued; and even into Asia and beyond. It's only those Civil Wars that slowed things down. Following that there was just over a century of more modest expansion - and that's it. The 'Mid' & 'Late' 'game' was actually rather easy.....

    To some extent the Team (as the RS Team did) have it right.
    "RTW/RS VH campaign difficulty is bugged out (CA bug that never got fixed) and thus easier than Hard so play on that instead" - apple

    RSII 2.5/2.6 Tester and pesky irritant to the Team. Mucho praise for long suffering dvk'.

  10. #10

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Yes, that's pretty much Goldsworthy conclusion as well in Pax Romana if I remember correctly, although the legions had some setbacks, apart from some exceptions like Dacia and Parthia, no professional organized forces were around by the time the Empire was well under way.

  11. #11

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    After the punic wars Rome steamrolled the rest of the known world rather easily. For example, the Romans raised i think around 26 legions to fight carthage. They would then conquer macedon with a mere 2 legions. They smacked around the Seleukids with one arm tied behind their back. When ceaser conquered through Asia on his way home from Egypt the campaign was so easy he summed the whole campaign up with one sentance "I came, I saw, I conquered". So I agree that the fact the game gets easier once the big conquests are done is an accurate reflection of history, but from a gameplay perspective it does get a bit too easy and can get boring. Thankfully the new beta update makes the Mid-Late game far more challenging as instead of facing a few remaining empires in the late game you are facing coalitions of factions.

  12. #12

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    I think you guys need to be playing the TESTUDO sub-mod on 12 turns per year

  13. #13

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    ^^^^^^yep

  14. #14

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Quote Originally Posted by Samos41 View Post
    They would then conquer macedon with a mere 2 legions. They smacked around the Seleukids with one arm tied behind their back...
    interesting, what do you mean? also, mere 2 legions? one thing to be cautious about are the Roman claims about the numerical strength of their opponents. Rome isnt unique in greatly exaggerating these, of course (look at Herodotus' figures for invading Persian host). another factor are the records of the legions raised/involved. what Romans tend to neglect is to register that their 2 legions were reinforced by the same amount of the allied alae. thats no small matter, as this roughly doubles Roman forces. mere 2 legions would be thus beefed up by 2 allae (that also provided a greater number of cavalry than Romans fielded) and suddenly we have a full consular army - about 20,000 men. so there is nothing 'mere' about it. plus, this army is usually reinforced by the local allies wherever the army operates thus increasing its numbers even further. look at Magnesia against Seleukids in 190 as an example - the battle that some commentators call a 'Greek victory over Greeks.' i agree though that after the Marius' reform, what increasingly happens is the professional Roman army operating against levy-predominant forces and Romans thus have a default advantage due to their discipline, organisation and superior experience.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    some people might not like it but I personally wouldn't mind having some scripted event take place in the late game to make it more challenging, e.g rising tension between the different ethnic groups in your empire causes uprisings, slave uprisings (random rebel stacks spawn) but to be fair to the player he should get some advanced notices as to when and where it's likely to occur

  16. #16
    VektorT's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Quote Originally Posted by Dresden View Post
    It will be save compatible, but you can try the beta out now in the other thread. I will be updating it with a few fixes this weekend hopefully.

    While we will do our best to create more mid/late game difficulty, the unfortunate nature of TW games is that eventually you do hit a steamroll point.
    That's the sad truth about TW game since day 1 of the first Shogun TW. :'(
    It together with the god awful AI always limited the gameplay potential and baffled me of how TW managed to get this far without never ever even trying to properly improve in any of those issues, specially the AI. I think it's mainly because it lacks competition in what it does, so nowhere to run for the fans. But now after years of Paradox games interesting and long lasting campaigns it becomes more and more evident how badly the TW series developed to me. I see Paradox games at each new title, at each new patch, becoming better and better, while I can't say the same about TW games. The only redemption for TW games is the mods, but even on that matter CA took a huge step back from the old days instead of improving it, and again, Paradox do the exact opposite and greatly supports mods probably like no one else. When Paradox Imperator: Rome launches I easily see it taking the Rome Total Title of the main and best Ancient Rome game to go for at least to me. By the way I already find Slitherine's Field of Glory II battles more engaging than RTW, but the lack of a comparable campaign map still makes it lag behind.

  17. #17
    mAIOR's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Well, medieval 1 posed a challenge even in late game. Civil wars, re-emerging factions, the mongols. I remember playing as Venice and had most of the lads of the Roman empire when I suddenly had a civil war and a faction emerged and was declared war by France and Britain. It forced me to lose some ground while I ha to deal with all these emergencies. It was hairy for a while until the great battle of Metz or something where the battle weary full stack I was able to bring to face the French and English forces defeated 4 full stacks in one battle and 3 more in another opening the way for me to take all of France and England. That gave me a sense of achievement.


  18. #18

    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    A little deliberate mismanagement of the political system goes a long way if you want to give yourself a nice endgame challenge.

  19. #19
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Quote Originally Posted by mAIOR View Post
    Well, medieval 1 posed a challenge even in late game. Civil wars, re-emerging factions, the mongols. I remember playing as Venice and had most of the lads of the Roman empire when I suddenly had a civil war and a faction emerged and was declared war by France and Britain. It forced me to lose some ground while I ha to deal with all these emergencies. It was hairy for a while until the great battle of Metz or something where the battle weary full stack I was able to bring to face the French and English forces defeated 4 full stacks in one battle and 3 more in another opening the way for me to take all of France and England. That gave me a sense of achievement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus Smicarus View Post
    A little deliberate mismanagement of the political system goes a long way if you want to give yourself a nice endgame challenge.
    Exactly, that's the reason why we have these civil wars in the game. To make it more challenging in the mid and late stage. The only problem, as Icarus mentioned above, is that you must actually mismange the whole political system on purpose so as to be able to trigger the civil war. I just hope that Jake will be able to do something about it in his political overhaul.

    That said, I wouldn't actually mind having some scripted rebellions to make things a bit tougher for the player. Roma Surrectum was, for example, one of the mods that I played extensively where such scripted events were very well utilized.

  20. #20
    VektorT's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: DEI late champaign, no resistance at all

    Quote Originally Posted by seleukos99 View Post
    Exactly, that's the reason why we have these civil wars in the game. To make it more challenging in the mid and late stage. The only problem, as Icarus mentioned above, is that you must actually mismange the whole political system on purpose so as to be able to trigger the civil war. I just hope that Jake will be able to do something about it in his political overhaul.

    That said, I wouldn't actually mind having some scripted rebellions to make things a bit tougher for the player. Roma Surrectum was, for example, one of the mods that I played extensively where such scripted events were very well utilized.
    I agree that some scripted rebellion may be worth it. Maybe you could have a random chance each turn of triggering a rebellion that raise with each imperium level and with each "point" you control the senate/political system, maybe it could even be tied to events. I'm almost in turn 300 in my current Rome campaign and I not even know how those civil wars works. I just did my best to keep the balance in the Senate because of the bonuses and avoid pissing of other factions in events, apart from that I don't even care about party loyalty and the only time I use the political actions is to marry or promote someone, that's all.

    Also, even so it would make it even easier to control the political system, I would like a better way to spend influence and support instead of gravitas in basically every action. I know it would make things easier, but it already is quite easy and trying to manage your influence while you family just grow and grow is quite frustrating.

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