Could you make faction leader have multiple wife, and from there muiltiple children so when he dies, there a chance his children could fight against each other for his kingdom. Sorry for my english not very good
Could you make faction leader have multiple wife, and from there muiltiple children so when he dies, there a chance his children could fight against each other for his kingdom. Sorry for my english not very good
Hi, looking forward to this one. I was wondering about Empire related stuff happening post Civil War, these should happen much less frequently ? After all you've slaughtered all opposition and are in complete control.
Right now Empire gives you some loyalty bonus, however - it could be much higher post civil war ? (A new government type?)
Cheers
Sincerely I have no idea about empire gov, since I've never played till late campaigns. Didn't know either you don't have parties being an empire...
What can be modded for sure are effects' type (any faction or related to faction effect could be added) and effect values.
Maybe something more via script (from last DLC) that is to be studied yet.
Hi ! Hey Jake, I don't know anything about modding, but do you think linking certain regions effects and properties to party loyalty could be possible ?
For exemple :
- The party "Other Nobles" controls two regions, and has a Loyalty of -5. Effects : -10% Tax rate, + 10% rectruitement cost, -1 Recruitement capacity in these regions, -5 Public Order, because the nobles ruling these lands aren't really fond of your rule
- Or the other way around : The party "Other Nobles" controls two regions, both are hit by a plague : Party Loyalty : -3 because of the discontent of the nobles ruling these provinces, who are disappointed by your rule and your inability to manage the infrastructures which could have preventend the plague.
As I said, I don't know anything about modding, I just had this idea while pooping this morning, and thought that maybe it could be interesting for you guys. It could make politics more important, and provide new ways to interact with other parties (without simply spamming cash and/or gravitas to avoid troubles). But it might not even be possible, right ?
(Sorry if I made english mistakes, it is not my native language)
The idea is good in general, I think, if doable, that's. The only problem here is the fact that the provinces are automatically and randomly assigned to the political parties, which means that the player has no control over it. If you link it to the political system you will create a feature that is, to some extent, going to be beyond player's control and thus it may prove to be quite frustrating at times.
Though it would be cool to have more variables and overall impacts from the region/province control of parties, I think this would just add another randomized bloat mechanic to the campaign, something which we are definitely trying to avoid. Campaign systems, like politics, need to not only be strategic, but have their scope balanced correctly. While your idea isn’t overly influential and demanding of consistent player management (very important for politics), the total lack of any user manipulation and control doesn’t do it any justice or make it plausible either in my opinion.
Yes, you are right, the fact that it is random might lead to frustration. So, what if the effects and penalties applied to regions were linked to political events ?
For exemple :
- Political Event : "The Plague : A plague is affecting Narbonensis : Donate money to the nobles from the region affected by the plague to help them (-3000 denarii), OR Let them deal with it themselves : Consequence : -2 Loyalty for the Other Nobles, -1 Recruitement slot, -5 Public order in regions controlled by this party for X Turns"
Or :
- "Autonomy : The aristocracy ruling this province whishes to have a greater autonomy to manage the local economy and administration in a way that better suits the locals... Will you let them do it?"
Accept, they know the local situation better : +2 Loyalty from the party ruling this region, -20% Tax rate, +20 % revenues from local commerce (permanent), +2 Public order for 10 turns, + 15% recruitement costs
Refuse, I am the State, I won't let them undermine my authority : -5% influence in the Senate, -3 Loyalty from the party ruling this region, +10% Tax rate, -15% cash from local commerce, -5 Public order due to discontent for 10 turns"
If it's done that way, a choice has to be made, and the consequences will be up to the player. What do you think about that ?
And it doesn't have to be "2 choices" events, maybe 3 choices, so the player actually feels like he has options, and the appearance of the events could be linked to the local situation too ( Low Public order or party loyalty might spawn events). An event can also lead to another one, with consequences sometimes unexpected, just like real politics are. It could be a bit like the events that happen in Europa universalis IV, with choices affecting taxtion, recruitement, population growth etc... of a local region
Yeah, one of the things for an advanced to do list is this one, more or less.
The only thing I fear is the possibility to identify a specific party.
Basically I'm thinking to open a dilemma when you occupy a new region, but I'm not sure you can "assign" that region (and so have loyalty bonus or whatever) to a specific party.
Some vanilla's political dilemmas work this way. Think the hardcoded script is built getting a random/specific party (that we should be able to do) and apply an "event loyalty effect" for a specific party ("event loyalty effect" that we have into cdir tables).
So, potentially is doable, but until it's done I can't be sure if it would work or not. And also, in the case it works, what limitations could be faced.
We also discussed this thing months ago into devs thread.
I could say other things but I have still to interpolate scripts and events (or whatever the correct method would be, if it exists), so those things would be aleatory.
What said above is absolutely not linked to the random assignement of provinces to parties, which is completely hardcoded afaik.
So you'll have a discrepance between the hardcoded assignement and our scripted modded one, but that's a minor issue imo.
Yeah, during a civil war of the second party, a region that you've assigned to third party might go to the ownings of the second party.
It sucks but it is secondary, imo.
If events affecting both the region and the party managing the region can't be implemented (because assigning a party to a specific party isn't possible), I don't think it would be that terrible, there are still other ways to make things interesting !
If it's possible, you can still make region specific events (impacting taxation, recruitement, and whatnot) on one side, and events impacting specific parties loyalty on the other. Even if the Politic system is not directly linked to the regions management, just having some nice (and challenging) dilemmas, with actual consequences on the campaign, can make the whole thing feel more authentic and fun. It could make the mid/late game less of a steamroll, with events leading to economic, civic or military problems/changes. In fact, even if the Political overhaul doesn't add massive changes to the gameplay, just adding some interesting new events would make me happy . But you probably already thought about all of the stuff I'm saying ! Playing Europa Universalis IV made me miss the unexpected troubles you face in the Paradox games
Anyways, thanks for your work on this overhaul !
Is there really no way to affect armies or characters through events? Because that would be amazing.
I wanted to make the same suggestion, I agree with everything you wrote.
I will post some suggestions aiming at the quest and political incident system. In general I would like those two to be way more connected to the game's world and characters.
I would like them to depend on provinces, buildings, characters and their traits, armies and their traits, victories and defeats, food, money, seasons, deaths, other factions etc.
Many of this is probably not possible, but maybe I can generate some rough ideas for you.
Some general things:
- The milestone quests "reach 60 units/10 regions" etc should be removed. Every time I reach that many units/regions I am often already so powerful, that the extra support only adds more fuel to steamrolling
- Probably very subjective: I would like to get less referred to as a player in incidents and dilemmas but instead as my faction in general or its leader "Message has reached you that there is a famous blacksmith in the woods. You choose to investigate." => "Message has reached king X that there is a famous blacksmith in the woods. Send a group to investigate"
- Less magical events. Imo there are too many events à la "guy has hacked down a holy tree and suddenly there is a tsunami"
- Continuous incidents over multiple rounds like the one in Attila as Lakhmids where you get invited by the Sassanid king, but more immersive (it was presented as one meeting going on over the time of several seasons)
Example suggestions:
Provinces: In Vanilla you get an event about horses from Nisa, even if you already own the region. That should not happen. Otherwise events like that are a good start.
- Incident: Neighboring region has iron/copper and you trade with that faction: Dilemma to buy +1 weapons or armor in your region from that faction or vice-versa
- Quest: If you own Alexandria you could get a quest from the librarians to pursue knowledge by research/building/occupation/trade with a distant faction
- Incident: Triumphs / celebrations when an important general or army enters a region, like in Shogun 2 where the peasants sometimes worked harder when your Daimyo visited
- Incident: Trader with rare cloth from far away => explicitly state where he claims it to be from: Persia/India/China whereever
Buildings:
- Quest: A group of people would like a specific building and will pay you partly back if you build something. F.e. traders would like a wine market in Athens
Characters:
- Incident: Two of your generals get into a dispute if one is hot-headed or become friends
- Incident: One of your champions or generals wants to actively invest in the local army training, gets a trait and recruits get increased experience for a few rounds.
- Incident: One of your generals is hurt in battle and needs a turn to come back
- Incident: One of your governors wants to study something => research speed for money
- Quest: One of your generals is personally interested in beating/looting a certain army/city out of revenge/glory/love or economic reasons.
Armies:
- Incident: Specific army gets a mascot (pet fawn/horse/lion cub/elephant)
Victories & Defeats:
- Incident: Grant a PO bonus when you capture or recapture a city of your own culture from a different faction, because the inhabitants celebrate your faction
- Incident: War eagerness, increased replenishment when you win or lose a battle
- Incident: Defeating one army grants intel about the faction (other armies/cities) by pillaging their camp/supplies
- Quest: War eagerness, your troops need a victory after a defeat/are keen on more battles after a victory => decreased/increased morale after the next loss/victory
Seasons:
- Incident: scorching hot summer or hazardous winter appears => option to invest in precautions so your troops don't take attrition temporarily
Deaths:
- Incident: PO changes because people mourn over a famous character, tie to birth place?
- Quest: Family wants faction to avenge if it was a death in battle
Other factions:
Also, remove the diplomat's silver tongue event, because it's just broken.
Is there really no way to affect armies or characters through events? Because that would be amazing.
Sure there is, but we were talking about a specific mechanism in that thread. Not everything is always doable. In that case it wasn't, in other cases you can apply effects/payloads from events to any possible target (chars, regions, factions,...).
I wanted to make the same suggestion, I agree with everything you wrote.
Thank you for your suggestions, a lot of them are really good, and I'm happy and grateful you took the time to write them down.
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Political overhaul is in stand by now, cause I got bored and cause I'm actually working on fides populi, hoping to release a decent version before 2019.
Then I'll come back to this and my intentions are:
- release an alpha version with an intrigue overhaul, a different balancement for loyalty, something different for families and something for political power too ( I have a basic version but as I've said I got bored and I have to recheck everything)
- balance it and see what people think
- release guides about various things so people can work on their own ideas (i.e. making events is quite easy and if you have a guide it will be very easy)
- continue to work on it (and other features, like events and some scripted parts) until an overall basic version is ready
- make a "community political overhaul" (yes everyone can help with ideas and/or moddings) to gift it to DeI team (or to keep it as a submod, it's the same to me)
Everything above is not difficult to be done, but it will require quite a lot of time and work, reason I got bored and moved to Fides Populi.
But I'm 100% sure it will be something good and worthy of all the time and work.
Hello! Will it be compatible with the last upcoming update of DEI+KAM improvements here in twcenter?
Oh, well, there's no pack to tell the truth.
If you're referring to that litttle tweak about having 1 children per couple, it is compatible with anything, from vanilla Rome 2 to any other mod around.
If you' re referring to when it will be done, well, yes, it will be a DeI submod.
Hey Jake, I was wondering what you are planning with regards to illegitimate children. They don't occur in vanilla, but DEI adds them back in. But I think all they do is clutter up the family tree. Sure, people had bastards, that's a historical fact. But you can always adopt a character, imagining he's a bastard being recognized or something like that. I don't feel like these random kids popping up in your family tree becoming heirs adds anything to the game. I end up sending them to their death.
Yes, there is an occuring difference between DeI and vanilla.
The only thing for bastards are 2 campaign variable for random number.
- family_base_illegitimate_child_chance
- family_base_illegitimate_child_chance_reduction_per_child
Revert them to 0 (as per vanilla and not 5 as per DeI) if you don't want them, which I personally prefer.
You can do that inside DeI's campaign variables.