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Thread: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

  1. #21
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Praetorio
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    The Greek say: "There is enough cake for all, come take a piece!"
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    It is good you are willing to share, given the flour is paid for by Merkel's largess.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    As for Merkel, it's really about time. Germany should really consider setting term limits for their Chancellors, if you ask me.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 31, 2018 at 07:11 PM. Reason: off topic part removed

  3. #23

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Good riddance to bad rubbish. The only bad thing about this is that Germans will have to endure another 2 years of pseudo-democratic corporate oligarchy with mass-importation of welfare migrants and Orwellian crackdowns on free speech. Hopefully her "successor" will lose electorally and Germans will finally choose freedom like Hungarians, Austrians and Italians did already.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; October 31, 2018 at 01:22 AM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The only bad thing about this is that Germans will have to endure another 2 years of pseudo-democratic corporate oligarchy with mass-importation of welfare migrants and Orwellian crackdowns on free speech.
    Seriously, the Germany I am living in is neither an oligarchy, nor an orwellian nightmare.

  5. #25
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Germany is on ist way towards this.

    And most People are enjoying this. Again.

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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Good riddance to bad rubbish. The only bad thing about this is that Germans will have to endure another 2 years of pseudo-democratic corporate oligarchy with mass-importation of welfare migrants and Orwellian crackdowns on free speech. Hopefully her "successor" will lose electorally and Germans will finally choose freedom like Hungarians, Austrians and Italians did already.
    I`ve expected a post like this much earlier. What shall I do, respond or simply piss myself while laughing my ass off?

    Seriously, we will miss those times in the future. The thing that I would critizise most of Merkels reign would be, that she didn`t send Seehofer and his host of inepts (Dobrint etc) into the desert.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Nevertheless, Merkel is a successful politician
    Yes, she's certainly excellent at obtaining and holding on to power, and eliminating competitors.

    and led her country through various crises with competence and dignity
    lol

    ... wait, are you serious?


    which is more than what I can say for the orange buffoon in the Oval office.
    Don't you think it's a bit early to judge Trump? I mean, I don't like the guy either, but that goes for nearly every other state leader as well.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus_Iunius_Brutus_Caepio View Post
    Even as convinced socialdemocrat her human management of the refugee crisis let me vote her 2017.

    She was one of our best chancellors.

    At the moment its uncertain, who will win the election of 2021.

    Possible chancellor candidates in my opinion:

    CDU:

    Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annegr...mp-Karrenbauer

    Armin Laschet

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Laschet

    SPD (Socialdemocrats):

    Olaf Scholz

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_Scholz

    Andrea Nahles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Nahles

    Alliance 90 / The Greens:

    Robert Habeck

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Habeck

    Tarek_Al-Wazir

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarek_Al-Wazir

    If Trump cancels the INF treaty, i would bet, that the next chancellor is SPD / Green.
    Thank you for the analysis.

    Germany does seem to give its Chancellors long reigns to impose their programs meaningfully. As an Australian this is very confusing for me, we change our Prime Ministers roughly when we change the clocks for daylight savings. Certainly I can see the benefit of a long continuous period of rule, as we currently have extremely short term thinking in a number of policy areas. Energy policy is a mess, the miners have scotched any sort of carbon emissions control by toppling leaders at will. This has also led to high prices with gouging and no mid-long term planning.

    Another area is foreign trade and relations, especially with Malaysia and Indonesia: they find the sudden changes of leadership threatening). Trumps abdication of international responsibility has left the Asia pacific drifting toward China: we are facing this shift against a player with extremely long range strategies with a kaleidoscope of inexperienced and rapidly shifting leaders. So I can see why Germany prefers one horse for the long race.

    So far Merkel has dealt with Bush Jr, Obama and Trump, basically three very poor foreign policy performers. Bush (well, Cheney) smashed the Middle East into razor sharp fragments, Obama (well, Clinton) stepped on the pieces, and the only reason Trump has been relatively inactive is he's an incompetent and there's not that much left to smash. So credit to her for providing some leadership as the US has replaced self-interested direction with bizarrely evil foreign policy affecting Europe both directly and indirectly.

    Western tampering in Ukraine has been opportunistic and cynical. Putin is a corrupt murdering scumbag but Ukraine is his backyard, staging coups there is like Russia going into Mexico. Merkel may have backed this interference but was it her plan? I guess the chance at a Russia-free line to Caspian gas is a tempting prize.

    Our Greek friends like to bash her, but not sure if she's really Satan, the little I know of Greek politics is the politicians are as bad as the people are good. Has Germany been smashed by Bush's financial terrorism as badly as say Great Britain? The little I know of the German economy is they have been doing better than most by dint of sticking to the long game rather than boroewing to buy votes like Athens.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  9. #29
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Praetorio
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Yes, she's certainly excellent at obtaining and holding on to power, and eliminating competitors.
    This seems an odd thing to say given she's announced her retirement following some electoral defeats. Are you guys so eager to believe the conspiracy theories you can't see what's actually true, even when it's in your favour?

  10. #30

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    This seems an odd thing to say given she's announced her retirement following some electoral defeats. Are you guys so eager to believe the conspiracy theories you can't see what's actually true, even when it's in your favour?
    What's with you and this obsession with conspiracy theories? You should stop projecting so much.

    It really isn't an odd thing to say at all: she's good at obtaining power(she initially won it via election), she's good at holding onto it(18 years for CDU, 13 for Chancellor as the OP states) and judging from the utter lack of suitable alternatives in the most recent elections(or in the foreseeable future, as some Germans in the thread readily admit) I'd say she's pretty good at eliminating or beating her competitors. All of those statements are true regardless of her recent defeats(which IMO have in no small way been self-inflicted, but it's also probably a result of waning popularity simply due to the fact that she's been Chancellor for so long--democracies work like that). Why does that have anything to do with being unable to "see what's actually true"?
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; October 31, 2018 at 11:42 PM.

  11. #31
    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Thank you for the analysis.

    Germany does seem to give its Chancellors long reigns to impose their programs meaningfully. As an Australian this is very confusing for me, we change our Prime Ministers roughly when we change the clocks for daylight savings. Certainly I can see the benefit of a long continuous period of rule, as we currently have extremely short term thinking in a number of policy areas. Energy policy is a mess, the miners have scotched any sort of carbon emissions control by toppling leaders at will. This has also led to high prices with gouging and no mid-long term planning.

    Another area is foreign trade and relations, especially with Malaysia and Indonesia: they find the sudden changes of leadership threatening). Trumps abdication of international responsibility has left the Asia pacific drifting toward China: we are facing this shift against a player with extremely long range strategies with a kaleidoscope of inexperienced and rapidly shifting leaders. So I can see why Germany prefers one horse for the long race.

    So far Merkel has dealt with Bush Jr, Obama and Trump, basically three very poor foreign policy performers. Bush (well, Cheney) smashed the Middle East into razor sharp fragments, Obama (well, Clinton) stepped on the pieces, and the only reason Trump has been relatively inactive is he's an incompetent and there's not that much left to smash. So credit to her for providing some leadership as the US has replaced self-interested direction with bizarrely evil foreign policy affecting Europe both directly and indirectly.

    Western tampering in Ukraine has been opportunistic and cynical. Putin is a corrupt murdering scumbag but Ukraine is his backyard, staging coups there is like Russia going into Mexico. Merkel may have backed this interference but was it her plan? I guess the chance at a Russia-free line to Caspian gas is a tempting prize.

    Our Greek friends like to bash her, but not sure if she's really Satan, the little I know of Greek politics is the politicians are as bad as the people are good. Has Germany been smashed by Bush's financial terrorism as badly as say Great Britain? The little I know of the German economy is they have been doing better than most by dint of sticking to the long game rather than boroewing to buy votes like Athens.
    I will answer your questions as best as i can, because you seem to be interested on a real dialogue / discussion to exchange experience, not on spreading a ideological message.

    Germany has longtime governments, because we had very bad experience with shorttime governments in the Weimar Republic. The Weimar Republic had goverments, which didn't last longer than a year. The consequences was, that political problems were rarely solved and this ineffectiveness was one reason for the rise of the Nazis.

    So because of this Weimar experience the germans prefer stable governments and are not inclined to change the chancellor easily.

    Another reason is the big parties like CDU ( Conservatives) and SPD (Social Democrats/Labour) are "parties of the people", because they have members from all parts of the society. So they have a strong support in their politics by the society.

    To understand Merkel you must go back to the 70s and look at chancellor Willy Brandt's "new eastern policy":


    As chancellor, Brandt developed his Neue Ostpolitik (New Eastern Policy). Brandt was active in creating a degree of rapprochement with East Germany, and also in improving relations with the Soviet Union, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and other Eastern Bloc (communist) countries. A seminal moment came in December 1970 with the famous Warschauer Kniefall in which Brandt, apparently spontaneously, knelt down at the monument to victims of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.[10] The uprising occurred during the German military occupation of Poland, and the monument is to those killed by the German troops who suppressed the uprising and deported remaining ghetto residents to the concentration camps for extermination.

    Time magazine in the U.S. named Brandt as its Man of the Year for 1970, stating, "Willy Brandt is in effect seeking to end World War II by bringing about a fresh relationship between East and West. He is trying to accept the real situation in Europe, which has lasted for 25 years, but he is also trying to bring about a new reality in his bold approach to the Soviet Union and the East Bloc."[11] President Richard Nixon also was pushing détente on behalf of the United States. The policies of Nixon and Henry Kissinger, after some initial suspicion, amounted to co-opting Brandt's Ostpolitik.[12]
    In 1971, Brandt received the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in improving relations with East Germany, Poland, and the Soviet Union. Brandt negotiated a peace treaty with Poland, and agreements on the boundaries between the two countries, signifying the official and long-delayed end of World War II. Brandt negotiated parallel treaties and agreements with Czechoslovakia.
    In West Germany, Brandt's Neue Ostpolitik was extremely controversial, dividing the populace into two camps. One camp embraced all of the conservative parties, and most notably those West German residents and their families who had been driven west ("die Heimatvertriebenen") by Stalinist ethnic cleansing from Historical Eastern Germany, especially the part that was given to Poland as a consequence of the end of the war; western Czechoslovakia (the Sudetenland); and the rest of Eastern Europe, such as in Romania. These groups of displaced Germans and their descendants loudly voiced their opposition to Brandt's policy, calling it "illegal" and "high treason".
    A different camp supported and encouraged Brandt's Neue Ostpolitik as aiming at "Wandel durch Annäherung" ("change through rapprochement"), encouraging change through a policy of engagement with the (communist) Eastern Bloc, rather than trying to isolate those countries diplomatically and commercially. Brandt's supporters claim that the policy did help to break down the Eastern Bloc's "siege mentality", and also helped to increase its awareness of the contradictions in its brand of Socialism/Communism, which – together with other events – eventually led to the downfall of Eastern European Communism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_...Foreign_policy

    Those eastern policy was continued since then from every chancellor. A simple way for change with rapprochement was trade and the UdSSR was a reliable gas supplier since then. So its not surprising Merkel tries the same method with Putin ("North Stream 2"), because he need currencies. And i think, she tries a middle way between sanctions and open door for trade with Russia.

    You should not forget on Crimea live ethnical Russians and Crimea was given at first in 1954 from RSFSR to Ukrainian Sowjetrepublic. And you should not forget, that one part of the supporters of the new government of 2013 were these nice guys:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

    As the Waffen-SS used ukranian volunteers in WW II against the UdSSR, its understandable, that Russia could feel threaten by this new government.

    I think Merkel understands at least to some point russian fears. So she uses sanctions, but with the gas supply she let the door a little bit open for further negotiations.

    Germany was not hit so hard by the financial crisis, because Merkel's government had balanced the state budget, reduced the public debts and made a round table with those banks, which were heavily affected by the crisis. They got public money, if they reduce their costs and so on. And trade unions and industry had made modest collective agreements.

    Germans are more consensus loving people.
    Last edited by Carmen Sylva; November 01, 2018 at 12:00 AM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    I`ve expected a post like this much earlier. What shall I do, respond or simply piss myself while laughing my ass off?

    Seriously, we will miss those times in the future. The thing that I would critizise most of Merkels reign would be, that she didn`t send Seehofer and his host of inepts (Dobrint etc) into the desert.
    Yeah, I'm sure that memories of her reign will be held dearest by self-hating leftists, welfare migrants and subversive billionaires.

  13. #33
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Praetorio
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure that memories of her reign will be held dearest by self-hating leftists, welfare migrants and subversive billionaires.
    And educated centrists who just want to be prosperous and not hate everything with a pulse and a different shade of pallor.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    And educated centrists who just want to be prosperous and not hate everything with a pulse and a different shade of pallor.
    This description sits well with me, thank you..... but being a subversive billionaire would be much better

    @Marcus_Iunius_Brutus_Ceapio: Nice Post, have some rep!
    Three things to add: While the german governmental System leans to long Chancellorships, its not exactly designed to ensure this. Its more like Konrad Adenauer as the first Chancellor made a precedent with his long reign, which no one expected due to his age (he was 73 when he became chanchellor in 1949 and 87 when he left in 1963).
    It is more remarkable, that Angelar Merkel is the first Chanchellor that is able to chose the end of her career and is not dethroned like all Chanchellors before her (more or less).
    One thing to critize would be the way the Banks were saved during the financial Crisis.... I like the american way more, force them to take the money but also force them to accept some kind of control by the state. But Hindsight, I know.

  15. #35
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    This seems an odd thing to say given she's announced her retirement following some electoral defeats. Are you guys so eager to believe the conspiracy theories you can't see what's actually true, even when it's in your favour?
    She did only step back from being the leader of the CDU, she did not step back from being chancellor. So she still holds the power and giving her history of of doing what she wants without the parliament Germany can expect more damaging and costly (for the tax payers and common People) solo actions (as to signing the UN Global Migration Pact).

    2021 there will be new elections and thinking that she did great because she said now (!) she is not going to be candidate for another round as chancellor is simply you do not understand this power-hungry Person and her Version of Game of Thrones.

    So because of this Weimar experience the germans prefer stable governments and are not inclined to change the chancellor easily.
    Most Germans are very subservient to their authorities ("Untertanen") and given her increasing Strangulation of free speech and the democratic-liberal rule of law more and more People have been intimidated.

    As the Waffen-SS used ukranian volunteers in WW II against the UdSSR, its understandable, that Russia could feel threaten by this new government.
    And before this were the Communist Civil War and the Holodomor. Ukraine does have far more reasons to fear Russia.

    Germany was not hit so hard by the financial crisis, because Merkel's government had balanced the state budget, reduced the public debts and made a round table with those banks, which were heavily affected by the crisis. They got public money, if they reduce their costs and so on. And trade unions and industry had made modest collective agreements.
    And the German taxpayers are responsible for Target II Saldo of meanwhile of almost 1,000,000,000,000 €. Hardly a reducing of public debts, rather a dispossession of German depositors and national wealth.

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  16. #36

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    So democracy is good only if a nation elects people you like?

    That's the message I'm getting from this thread.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    And educated centrists who just want to be prosperous and not hate everything with a pulse and a different shade of pallor.
    I guess self-hating leftists who call themselves " educated centrists" while repeating generic leftist talking points would fall under that category as well.

  18. #38
    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    And the German taxpayers are responsible for Target II Saldo of meanwhile of almost 1,000,000,000,000 €. Hardly a reducing of public debts, rather a dispossession of German depositors and national wealth.
    Its necessary to stabilize the Euro Currency Zone. Germany as exportnation benefits hugely from the common market and the common currency. And its nice to make holiday in France or Spain without changing DM in Francs or Pesetas.

    But i wont discuss this AFD Propaganda nonsense further.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    This seems an odd thing to say given she's announced her retirement following some electoral defeats. Are you guys so eager to believe the conspiracy theories you can't see what's actually true, even when it's in your favour?
    I don't know about you, but I happen to speak German and I've followed Merkel's career as a chancellor for its entire duration.
    The evidence is quite clear. Why do you think Merz, once a young CDU hopeful, has returned to politics only now? Where are the other competent or charismatic leading figures in her party? As another example, take Wulff (OK, he's retarded, but he used to be photogenic and relatively popular), who was "promoted" to President, an almost entirely ceremonial post. Only those from younger generations, like Spahn, remain. Or CSA CSU people like Seehofer who are largely out of her control thanks to Bavarian stubbornness. The rest is Merkel toadies like Pofalla, Günther, Kramp-Karrenbauer, von der Leyen, and Laschet.

    As for stepping down, I'll believe that when I see it. Merkel would support National Socialism if it helped her (or at least her lackeys) secure power. But maybe we're lucky this time.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

    It seems to criticism of Merkel are overblown nonsense, in tough times she has kept her country in control of the EU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus_Iunius_Brutus_Caepio View Post
    I will answer your questions as best as i can, because you seem to be interested on a real dialogue / discussion to exchange experience, not on spreading a ideological message....
    Actually I just wanted the hear what a damned commie sounded like. Jk of course I am here to learn and I try to thank people for correcting me when I am wrong.

    I had a vague idea about German political trends, and the contrasting styles of French and German political traditions. the French seem to prefer sparks struck from almighty clashes of ideas, the Germans seem to believe its better to all follow one (whether mediocre or talented) leader than diverge behind multiple geniuses.

    Thanks for the stuff on Brandt, I knew the name and that he was popular but little else.

    I agree with your points about Crimea, its a place of critical importance to Russia and western interference in Ukraine was always going to cause a dramatic reaction from Moscow. Is it your impression Germany was involved heavily? I felt it was a US operation but I'm pretty ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus_Iunius_Brutus_Caepio View Post
    Germans are more consensus loving people.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    If I may appeal to another national stereotype they also complain in restaurants. I went to breakfast with some parents from my kid's school and the German mother sent two things back to the kitchen. No doubt the Greek chef blamed Merkel...
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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