Angela Merkel Will Step Down in 2021

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I think the new ukrainian government got more support from US than Germany, as Germany won' t provoke Russia in his backyard.

Yeah germans are awfull pedantic in restaurant and at holiday, but it got better with the younger generations. At least they want not in every country Wiener Schnitzel like at home and try new dishes.

[Copperknickers II]

Yes, she's certainly excellent at obtaining and holding on to power, and eliminating competitors.

lol

... wait, are you serious?

How would you have preferred Germany to deal with the financial crisis, the Eurozone crisis and the migrant crisis? I'd say she dealt with them all exceedingly well - Germany's economy was not hit badly by the financial crisis at all and is the healthiest of any major Western country. The Eurozone crisis which threatened to rip the EU apart is now old news, Greece is on the road to recovery despite the breathless accusations of German punitive measures, with Italy and Spain ticking along thanks to the shoring up of confidence in the Euro that Merkel provided, despite those countries' corrupt and incompetent leaders' best efforts to the contrary.

As for the migrant crisis, the problem there was that Greece and Italy have sea borders which are next to impossible to control, and no thought had been put into the implications of Schengen, a geographical entity where the poorest and weakest members are at the borders whilst the richest and most stable ones are in the interior. This led to a situation where refugees could easily breach the borders of the Mediterranean countries and then were able to freely flow into wealthier countries as they pleased. Given that absolutely none of this problem was of Merkel's making, there was nothing she could do about the arrival of the migrants in Germany, she had no way of preventing them from entering. And asylum law required her to process all claims fairly. Political reality dictated she couldn't move migrants to other countries (ironically, the same Right Wing Germans who praise Orban and Cameron and their ilk fail to realise that the only viable alternative to letting them stay in Germany was spreading them out towards other European countries, something which the other European leaders refused to allow!) so the only option left to her was an amnesty while the claims were processed and the outer EU borders were secured. Something which has now happened - migrants are being deported from Germany every day and barely any are entering thanks to EU deals with Turkey and Libya. Despite the howls of 'ISIS infiltrators among the refugees' IS terrorism has now totally died down. The crisis is finished, largely thanks to Merkel. Another leader could not have dealt with it better.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I couldn't agree more.

[Roma_Victrix]

I wouldn't exactly give Merkel much credit in the collapse of ISIS' terrorist network and activities, though. As a NATO member Germany was involved, of course, but there were a huge amount of factors, mainly local realities such as Kurdish resistance and US-backed Iraqi counterattacks, that led to the destruction or capture of ISIS' main strongholds in Syria and Iraq these past few years. This in turn has helped to dry up the seemingly endless well of refugees fleeing from those two countries in particular, although Libya is still a sectarian mess and ISIS is still present there, albeit highly diminished from their height of power in 2015.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I think you misunderstood copperknickers. He meant, the fear, that many isis terrorists were among the refugees were exaggerated.

[Aexodus]

How would you have preferred Germany to deal with the financial crisis, the Eurozone crisis and the migrant crisis? I'd say she dealt with them all exceedingly well - Germany's economy was not hit badly by the financial crisis at all and is the healthiest of any major Western country. The Eurozone crisis which threatened to rip the EU apart is now old news, Greece is on the road to recovery despite the breathless accusations of German punitive measures, with Italy and Spain ticking along thanks to the shoring up of confidence in the Euro that Merkel provided, despite those countries' corrupt and incompetent leaders' best efforts to the contrary.

As for the migrant crisis, the problem there was that Greece and Italy have sea borders which are next to impossible to control, and no thought had been put into the implications of Schengen, a geographical entity where the poorest and weakest members are at the borders whilst the richest and most stable ones are in the interior. This led to a situation where refugees could easily breach the borders of the Mediterranean countries and then were able to freely flow into wealthier countries as they pleased. Given that absolutely none of this problem was of Merkel's making, there was nothing she could do about the arrival of the migrants in Germany, she had no way of preventing them from entering. And asylum law required her to process all claims fairly. Political reality dictated she couldn't move migrants to other countries (ironically, the same Right Wing Germans who praise Orban and Cameron and their ilk fail to realise that the only viable alternative to letting them stay in Germany was spreading them out towards other European countries, something which the other European leaders refused to allow!) so the only option left to her was an amnesty while the claims were processed and the outer EU borders were secured. Something which has now happened - migrants are being deported from Germany every day and barely any are entering thanks to EU deals with Turkey and Libya. Despite the howls of 'ISIS infiltrators among the refugees' IS terrorism has now totally died down. The crisis is finished, largely thanks to Merkel. Another leader could not have dealt with it better.

In regards to the migrant crisis, I think the main criticism is that she deliberately invited migrants already in the EU to come to Germany, rather than France, Spain or Italy by offering generous financial assistance. Similar story in Sweden.

[Heathen Hammer]

It seems to criticism of Merkel are overblown nonsense, in tough times she has kept her country in control of the EU.

Except that it is not overblown nonsense. So far we see two talking points from Merkel apologists:
The first one is that she somehow kept EU together. Given how the end result of her policies is UK leaving EU and a number of European nations electing openly anti-EU governments this doesn't even make sense. Her rule literally weakened EU and is probably they key reason behind it eventual collapse once more of its key members leave or in the event of government change in Germany itself.
The other one is praising her "humanity" for accepting millions of welfare migrants. Hardly an act of altruism, given how she did so at the expense of German taxpayer, not to mention the wave of crime and terror attacks she subjected the latter, of course herself not being affected by such consequences.
Sure, if you think Europeans are evil and must be destroyed in the name of "progress", then people like Merkel are great. But if you are not a sociopathic billionaire or some self-hating leftist, then it might be quite different.

[Morifea]

@Copperknickers: Good summary

@Cyclops: The Behaviour of some German tourists is one of most embarassing things for other Germans. There even a word for the corresponding feeling, "Fremdschämen" e.g. beeing deeply ashamed by the behaviour of someone else.

@Heathen Hammer: Point 1, the EU.
In the 18 Years of Merkels reign alot of things have happend and the EU has experienced some serious changes. Would you be so kind and point out the Situations where She has weakened the EU? I`m far from happy about everything that Germany did with the EU in the last years, but alot of those things happened because of national politics or because of the fear that some countries would not cooperate if Germany acted to bossy.
Brexit can`t imo not be blamed on Merkel, that one goes to Cameron, the inability of the remainers to put up a fight and russian intervention.

Point 2.
Well, a party that has the Term "Christian" in the Name should act accordingly, or not?
But not so much of humanity, more of applying the things that are written in our Constitution. In regard of your wave of Crimes and terror attacks... I guess you`r not familiar with the criminal statistics in Germany?
The only thing to rant about is the inability of the adjected Office, the federal office for immigration. I know alot of cases where a company wanted to hire immigrants, but were not allowed or the already well intigrated immigrants were deported.

I´m still waiting for my billions, I would even become sociopathic for it.

[Gäiten]

Its necessary to stabilize the Euro Currency Zone. Germany as exportnation benefits hugely from the common market and the common currency. And its nice to make holiday in France or Spain without changing DM in Francs or Pesetas..

Coming directly from the EU Propaganda and EU populism Centers.
Before the Euro debacle you could make Holidays everywhere either and exchanging mony has never been a Problem.

The Euro has not united Europe it has sundered and put People against People.

But i wont discuss this AFD Propaganda nonsense further...

If you do not have any arguments, so I do not wonder ...

But not so much of humanity, more of applying the things that are written in our Constitution. In regard of your wave of Crimes and terror attacks... I guess you`r not familiar with the criminal statistics in Germany? ...

Giving their percentage in the Population quite a very high percentage of criminal foreigners.

And most human reaction, they got either suspended sentences or minor sentences (due their cultural Background). After this they can stay forever in Germany, would be cruel to deport criminals, better to give them livelong access to German welfare.
Good for their Integration (into Arab/Libanese/Turkish/Chechen Mafia organisation).

Despite the howls of 'ISIS infiltrators among the refugees' IS terrorism has now totally died down.

For the People who do not want to see, yes, no terrorism anymore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_C...terrorist_plot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Cologne_attack

And the ongoing and increasing numbers of gang raping in Germany, no Problem with, just a appropriate form of welcome culture, is not it? Vae victis! (*sarcasm out*)

[Alastor]

My impression is that Merkel has been too unwilling to push for further integration, a move her own attitude has contributed to making unpopular, allowing the structural issues of the incomplete Eurozone to fester and hurting the EU. Merkel has certainly been a respected leader and until her immigration policies tainted her popularity at home, she was a unifying figure for Germans, but she was never a visionary. What Germany needs, what the EU needs, make no mistake the two are one and the same, is a visionary in the chancellery. The right kind of visionary. Unfortunately Merkel's legacy makes that highly unlikely to happen.

[Morifea]

Giving their percentage in the Population quite a very high percentage of criminal foreigners.

The percentage does not differ with that of non immigrant young german men.

And most human reaction, they got either suspended sentences or minor sentences (due their cultural Background). After this they can stay forever in Germany, would be cruel to deport criminals, better to give them livelong access to German welfare.
Good for their Integration (into Arab/Libanese/Turkish/Chechen Mafia organisation).

More police, more personel in the courts AND a stricter application of the already existent Laws would help with that.

And the ongoing and increasing numbers of gang raping in Germany, no Problem with, just a appropriate form of welcome culture, is not it? Vae victis! (*sarcasm out*)

Sources?

In regard of Target II: As far as I remember, this could only ever become a problem, if the current system of currencies breaks down (note, not the Euro system!).
Even Hans Werner Sinn admits, that this case is his greatest concern.
But I have to confess, that I´ve informed myself on that matter a long time ago, so take it with a grain of salt....

Btw, does the AFD even talk about this? Since Lucke got Petrified, those topics are completely gone from their Statements.

@Alastor: Fair Points. Visionaries are rare in german Politics.

[Muizer]

I guess self-hating leftists who call themselves " educated centrists" while repeating generic leftist talking points would fall under that category as well.

20 years ago or so, Merkel would have been the enemy of the left. She still would be if the political spectrum had not been repartitioned with pragmatic people open to reason and compromise on the one hand and rabble rousers whose answer to everything is to blame global conspiracies on the other.

[Gäiten]

The percentage does not differ with that of non immigrant young german men..

https://www.michael-klonovsky.de/ima...m_11.47.52.png




[QUOTE=Morifea;15690074]More police, more personel in the courts AND a stricter application of the already existent Laws would help with that.

Why not follow laws from the beginning? The bad already starts with migrants getting entry and Access to Germany if they do not have papers and come from safe third countries. Contrary to the laws.

Sources?

Freiburg gang bang: https://www.rt.com/news/442885-freib...spect-warrant/
Munich gangbang: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ant-crime.html

And there are more (almost daily women and Girls being raped by asylum seekers).

In regard of Target II: As far as I remember, this could only ever become a problem, if the current system of currencies breaks down (note, not the Euro system!).
Even Hans Werner Sinn admits, that this case is his greatest concern.
But I have to confess, that I´ve informed myself on that matter a long time ago, so take it with a grain of salt....

Btw, does the AFD even talk about this? Since Lucke got Petrified, those topics are completely gone from their Statements.

Just look at Italy: 5 seconds to 12

Certain AfD politicians are still into this Problem, but, to my Chagrin, this theme lost much of ist steam.

[Heathen Hammer]

20 years ago or so, Merkel would have been the enemy of the left. She still would be if the political spectrum had not been repartitioned with pragmatic people open to reason and compromise on the one hand and rabble rousers whose answer to everything is to blame global conspiracies on the other.

You do realize Merkel was a commie official before the wall fell, right? She also worked for agitprop, which kinda explains how she changes her beliefs at a drop of a hat.
Hardly pragmatic, given how the main result of her rule is nationalism and anti-immigration stance becoming more popular within and outside Germany. If it wasn't for her, we probably wouldn't see UK leave EU, or many European nations electing more nationalist governments.

[dogukan]

Either a swift resolution to sanction Russia, or an honest effort to bring Russia in as a negotiating partner with the Euromaidan. Instead we emboldened and alienated Russia to side with our enemies even further. I understand Merkel's position, there are significant economic interests between Russia and Europe and people were terrified by a prospect of coming into conflict with Russia. Unfortunately these situations require swift action. The Ukrainian crisis as a whole, only demonstrated that the West is incapable of putting together a swift resolution. We really did abandon Ukraine since then, what does that say about us as potential allies if we are unwilling to confront someone who so brazenly breaks rules?

For starters, Russia had a good case for the Russian minorities there. They haven't really taken over pro-Ukraine majority areas as far as I know. So there is that in the first place.

Secondly, right in between the Euro-debt crisis, facing a Russian energy supply shortage could have seriously hurt the European balance. There is no swift action there. As long as EU is reliant on Russia for energy, there'll need to be a delicate balance.
It is a balance that can turn in EU's favor with expansion of renewables, fracking and USA becoming an exporter of energy as well as new more efficient energy technologies.

You do realize Merkel was a commie official before the wall fell, right? She also worked for agitprop, which kinda explains how she changes her beliefs at a drop of a hat.
Hardly pragmatic, given how the main result of her rule is nationalism and anti-immigration stance becoming more popular within and outside Germany. If it wasn't for her, we probably wouldn't see UK leave EU, or many European nations electing more nationalist governments.

No She wasn't. Merkel had been the face of the conservative right that established the dominance of Neo-Liberalism in Europe. The revision of alt-right is crazy. No leftist supported Merkel at any point in time until extremely recently simply due to fear of fascism.

[athanaric]

How would you have preferred Germany to deal with the financial crisis, the Eurozone crisis and the migrant crisis?

Differently. Merkel's solution to the "Migrant crisis" is an unmitigated disaster, and shows her weakness as a political leader. To be fair, the roots of the problem go back decades, and the Social Democrats and Greens are just as much to blame when it comes to Germany's involvement in the matter. The core problem is the way social benefits work, and how the Marxist parties have continued to expand them to the point where it's very easy to get benefits even if you're not an EU citizen. That, coupled with the continued rhetoric of big business (i.e. the real power behind the CDU) as well as the Marxists about "needing immigration" for various reasons, and of course a number of external factors.
On top of all that, Merkel is extremely condescending in her speeches, and loves to sermonize. I just hope the next German chancellor will be an atheist.

@Copperknickers: Good summary

@Cyclops: The Behaviour of some German tourists is one of most embarassing things for other Germans. There even a word for the corresponding feeling, "Fremdschämen" e.g. beeing deeply ashamed by the behaviour of someone else.

Hardly a distinction, as tourists from other places (e.g. China, Britain) are just as bad.

For starters, Russia had a good case for the Russian minorities there. They haven't really taken over pro-Ukraine majority areas as far as I know. So there is that in the first place.

Yeah, those Russian minorities just conveniently happen to live all over the former colonies. Well in the case of Ukraine it's actually kind of legit, given its history. The Baltic states and Georgia, OTOH...

No She wasn't. Merkel had been the face of the conservative right that established the dominance of Neo-Liberalism in Europe. The revision of alt-right is crazy. No leftist supported Merkel at any point in time until extremely recently simply due to fear of fascism.

Merkel was involved in the FDJ and must've been on good terms with the Party to be allowed to get a PhD. Nothing in HH's statement is so wrong to warrant a "no she wasn't", or dark hints about "alt-right revisionism". Get your facts straight.
Since 2011 at the latest, Merkel also deliberately usurped some of the key policies of the radical left, i.e. the "energy turnaround" and open borders. Whether that's because of conviction or sheer opportunism is another issue.

[Diocle]

Finally she is about to vanish from this unfortunate continent, not because she wants to leave but because she has been defeated twice by German voters!



Her legacy is: the destruction and the humiliation of Greece for no other reason than a sordid electoral return, the invasion of Europe by hordes of illegal immigrants, terrorists and rapists, the Islamization of Germany, the disintegration of Europe as a political project, the Brexit and the destruction of his own party, pushed into an unnatural alliance with the globalist left.
In my mind the best comment on the disgusting woman will remain the (in)famous comment by Silvio Berlusconi when he said: "Merkel culona inchiavabile!"

[dogukan]

Merkel was involved in the FDJ and must've been on good terms with the Party to be allowed to get a PhD. Nothing in HH's statement is so wrong to warrant a "no she wasn't", or dark hints about "alt-right revisionism". Get your facts straight.
Since 2011 at the latest, Merkel also delberately usurped some of the key policies of the radical left, i.e. the "energy turnaround" and open borders. Whether that's because of conviction or sheer opportunism is another issue.

Open borders is a liberal idea, ideas on which Eu was built on. It is not necessarily a "leftist" turn. Free movement of goods, services AND PEOPLE, is not a fundamental leftist doctrine. The left supports it on the basis of universal equality and right to access. But it isn't something coined fundamentally by leftist ideals. Especially not in Europe.

I don't think "energy turnaround" has anything inherently leftist with it. It can be evaluated on terms of realpolitik, saving your future to simply adapting to technological change from capitalist innovation.

Presenting Merkel as a communist is simply a product of frustrated alt-right folk who are far from being after a rational discourse on anything. They have their fundamental truths and beliefs and they take position based on "identity". You are either a "leftist evil" or "right-wing hero". And now because they don't like Merkel, decades old neo-liberal which had overseen the dismantling of things left defended is declared as a "communist".

Thats outright fascist anti-intellectualism there. Their love of conspiracies.

[athanaric]

Open borders is a liberal idea, ideas on which Eu was built on. It is not necessarily a "leftist" turn. Free movement of goods, services AND PEOPLE, is not a fundamental leftist doctrine. The left supports it on the basis of universal equality and right to access. But it isn't something coined fundamentally by leftist ideals. Especially not in Europe.

I don't think "energy turnaround" has anything inherently leftist with it. It can be evaluated on terms of realpolitik, saving your future to simply adapting to technological change from capitalist innovation.

It's not my fault that the Marxists in Germany and Western Europe have usurped these ideas (and now they've usurped racism, too). I'm simply telling it as it is. Open borders and "green" energy are popular with today's Marxists. Whether their predecessors approved of those ideas is irrelevant in this context.

Presenting Merkel as a communist is simply a product of frustrated alt-right folk who are far from being after a rational discourse on anything. They have their fundamental truths and beliefs and they take position based on "identity". You are either a "leftist evil" or "right-wing hero". And now because they don't like Merkel, decades old neo-liberal which had overseen the dismantling of things left defended is declared as a "communist".

Thats outright fascist anti-intellectualism there. Their love of conspiracies.

It might be hyperbole, but so is your talk about "frustrated alt-right folk". Merkel has lots of detractors in Europe, many of whom are anti-communist in some way. The alt-right is just a minority among them.

[Love Mountain]

For starters, Russia had a good case for the Russian minorities there. They haven't really taken over pro-Ukraine majority areas as far as I know. So there is that in the first place.

Secondly, right in between the Euro-debt crisis, facing a Russian energy supply shortage could have seriously hurt the European balance. There is no swift action there. As long as EU is reliant on Russia for energy, there'll need to be a delicate balance.
It is a balance that can turn in EU's favor with expansion of renewables, fracking and USA becoming an exporter of energy as well as new more efficient energy technologies.

Russia did not have a good case. Russia panicked. It saw an unfriendly regime quickly forming in Kiev and immediately seized Crimea, an asset that's not only strategically important, but carries a symbolic significance as well. Not to mention that they knew Crimea itself did not share a particularly strong Ukrainian identity. The two countries are so closely linked together... many in Ukraine are already wondering what the revolution actually achieved. Russia's activities in Eastern Ukraine are only there to humiliate and keep Ukraine off balance. It also sends an important message to any neighbors who have NATO aspirations. And by the way, the Russian campaign was wildly successful when we consider just how quickly it was put together. NATO was unable to provide a quick response and most importantly, an effective response. Russia has a much greater will to escalate and NATO has very few tools to punish Russia with. Everybody knows that Russia was hurt far more by the oil prices than sanctions, but everyone also knows that Russia has recovered relatively quickly. Germany failed Ukraine and it failed many others who believed in a united European continent.

That said, this isn't entirely Merkel's fault. She was trying to be pragmatic. Unfortunately that was a time for decisive action. I think this'll go down as a significant footnote in history of this time period. It'll be interesting to see how it'll look in retrospect when I'm in my 70s.