[2018-XXVII] [Citizen Referral] Pontifex Maximus

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

Hi Hitai,

I would like to refer Pontifex Maximus. His conduct consistently seems to be below what one should expect from a Citizen in my view. Many of his posts are disruptive and inflammatory, if not outright insulting, while managing to skirt the Terms of Service. Rather than contributing to the discussion, he seems more interested in denigrating the contributions of others. Obviously he is entitled to his opinion, but the way he presents it, often using highly distasteful language, seems rather unbecoming of a Citizen. Please see below the relevant examples. Thank you.

Let the leftist tears flow. The Senate has confirmed a man who has been so unbelievably and irreconcilably slurred and dragged through the mud for political purposes that it is hardly believable they have any position other than that of partisan hack. I cannot wait to see the detrimental impacts this absolutely moronic and ineffective strategy has had on the idiot democrat party on the midterms. They have already squandered a 10 point lead in most states thanks to their dumb ass strategy, and I can only hope to god they lose big time next month. How anyone could ever vote for a democrat given this recent idiotic scandal is beyond me. What a bunch of ing, masquerading morons. We can't trust a single thing any of those idiots say. Oh please lord let any of these moron democrats win their presidential nomination for 2020. Please let it be Booker or Harris. Those unmitigated racist idiots.

The next time any of you absolutely degenerate senator morons want to bring false rape accusations in order to undermine a political process for your own gains, at least make it halfway credible. Absolutely pathetic.

Ahahaha the UN, what a useless organization. Cut off all funding from the US and see if they're still standing. Those hypocritical, worthless, moronic sons of whores.

Opposed. His temperament in the D&D cannot be less than awful. His debate mechanic is absolutely abysmal. Having debated with him over the course of at least five years I will assert here that his strategy and contributions to debate are not only subpar- they are denigrating to debate over the entire forum. His contributors are brainless and negligible at best. This is the sort of application which makes me doubt there is any possible value to any citizenship value should this applicant be granted citizenship.

I'm completely unconvinced this wasn't proposed in a self serving way in which those holding opposite opinions won't be bludgeoned to the benefit of those holding "rights" based on this proposal; "Offensive speech" being among those things which can be punished. It seems like a transparent and frankly puerile attempt to censor the speech of others based on what someone subjectively defines as offensive speech.

Awful proposal.

you're not a citizen. Your opinion counts for less than nothing with regards to a citizen application.

Not a single actual, substantive argument made, Elfdude, and you've completely ignored every legal argument. Hilariously predictable. I accept your surrender of the actual content of debate since you are obsessed with the manner in which an argument is made. Absolutely pathetic. Yes, I'd love to see the likes of that "argument" made before a judge. I could sit down, smile, and let him rule. In my experience it is the most arrogant parties which fall in court. It's always nice when reality imitates internet.

...I'm going to abstain from listing your half dozen logical fallacies because it's just not worth it.

@ spartan

Yeah so the rules apply when you want to apply them and they don't apply to democrats, your argument has fallen apart on you. There's really nothing more to say. Your moral relevancy really undercuts your white knighting here.

Colored me shocked the Europeans don't understand due process of law. This is why we fought in 1776. The leftist idiots overplayed their hands in this case because as it turns out when you accuse someone of gang rape you actually need evidence. I'm not surprised really, but the libtards will be when they lose in a catastrophic way in November. Congratulations you senatorial idiots: Booker, Feinstein, and other stupid as hell black democratic congresspeople. I'd be ashamed to vote for any of those idiots.

What a load of ad hominem riddled drivel. If you can't form a counterargument or debate just say so.

I accept your surrender.

[Aikanár]

How is the status of this? Has the defense been requested?

[General Brewster]

Defense Requested

[General Brewster]

If people are so victimized by political opinions which differ from their own, I don't have anything to say. Either this site will fall victim to the group think of leftist ideology or actually value Opposition opinions. If it goes one way I will gladly stop contributing here. Whoever lodged this grievance is just sadly butt hurt about my political opinions, and it has nothing to do with my conduct. This said if the elected curial officials side with the accuser, I no longer care about my membership in the curia, and would recommend the maximum punishment.

Defense received.

[♔atthias♔]

well this is the statement in particulair I find unbecoming of a citizen
each citizen should for himself decide what to count or not an ponti IMHO acts like he is speaking for the whole group and in a bad manner too

you're not a citizen. Your opinion counts for less than nothing with regards to a citizen application.

but the rest is also in a very aggressive style which a citizen should not do

[Veteraan]

I take it this is one of the referrals I should be looking at?

[♔atthias♔]

I take it this is one of the referrals I should be looking at?

yes that is correct

[Veteraan]

Okay then.

What I see are a lot of posts filled with unpleasant text that seems mainly intended to insult everybody that is being replied to, while taking a lot of care to just remain within what the TOS allows. Perhaps a case could be made for a lot of disruptive posting going on, mainly because of the very "strong wording" that is used. But I am not a moderator and we are not here to second guess them. Fact is that I don't know if any of this lot has been reported to moderation, but even if it has, it did not make it here. Having said that, I could feel somewhat insulted by one of the posts as I am an European. luckily I couldn't care less about the political views expressed or the ranting, so I'm not particularly bothered.

This again boils down to the elusive higher standards expected from citizens I believe. That is always tricky and we only have our own compass to go on, hoping we measure up to what (most of) the citizens expect from us.
As stated in the constitution:
Citizens are expected to behave in an exemplary manner and can be referred¹ to the Triumvirate for a review of their behaviour and possible disciplinary action.
Such a Referral is initiated automatically by Moderation for infractions incurred, or discretionally by Citizens² for behaviour considered unbecoming.

In my view, most posts that are present in the referral do not exactly adhere to "a higher standard". It is perfectly possible to engage in some intense debating without resorting to the language that is actually used. Especially stuff like the selection I made here:

moronic, idiot, a bunch of ing, masquerading morons, unmitigated racist idiots, degenerate senator morons, moronic sons of whores , His contributors are brainless and negligible at best, Congratulations you senatorial idiots: Booker, Feinstein, and other stupid as hell black democratic congresspeople, ad hominem riddled drivel.

Please check them in the actual posts in the OP to see in what context they were used. I merely listed them here because I was honestly amazed by the sheer number of them. I tried to avoid posting duplicates.

As it stands I do not think this lives up to "behaving in an exemplary manner".

This remark is indeed a bit special:

you're not a citizen. Your opinion counts for less than nothing with regards to a citizen application.

In one of my bids for Censorship, I was asked in the debate thread what sort of behaviour I would think is unbecoming. One of the things I mentioned is Citizens bullying non Citizens, especially new members. I think we all know that the member that was on the receiving end of the quoted remark is by no means a novice, nor somebody easily impressed by bullying. But that still makes this a statement any citizen shouldn't make, ever.

I will take some time to decide about what should be done, if anything, but at this point I'm inclined to go for further action.

Edit: I see I forgot to address the defence provided. It suggests the referred party is a victim of those who oppose his political views. Regardless if that is true or false, it's not at all relevant to me. It doesn't matter why a citizen refers another one and if the referrer doesn't share his motives to do so, we simply don't know what they are. I'm not here to look at the merit of a citizen's political views, unless they happen to be so extreme that it does become a real problem. That would need some truly awful stuff being written to even contemplate doing that though. Instead, what I above all am looking at is conduct, as seen in the first part of this reply.

[Veteraan]

Slept on it and came to the conclusion that this referral deserves Further Action.

[♔atthias♔]

I completely agree with you veteraan further action here also

[General Brewster]

Poll added

[General Brewster]

Further action.