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Thread: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

  1. #61
    REDBOOSTY's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Quote Originally Posted by ★RedStar★ View Post
    "You can go outside the border but must not sack or keep any captured lands there"

    So what rule did I break?
    "Keep"
    "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his"

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  2. #62
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    I'll comment since I don't want anyone leaving, so I won't choose sides but only say what I think the issue is here so people may understand each other better.

    I feel like the argument is about what immediate means for each party. From RedStar's perspective, it means that he took immediate action not to keep the settlement so he abandoned it at once = didn't keep it. From the admins and Mith's perspective, it means one has to give up the occupied settlement in one's turn meaning passing the turn with the settlement in one's occupation is a breaking of the rules, regardless of what actions were taken to abandon it = what RedStar did is close but not enough to fulfill what the rule asks for.

    As I said I will not choose sides but I will say that the rule is not 100% clear about this exact scenario, which resulted in this argument. "immediately" is too vague and doesn't exactly say what is it's timespan and in addition, simply "keep" is too vague too. RedStar can say that he doesn't keep it because he can only use it for the duration of the turn he captured it in, while the other party can say he keeps it because he will have it in the next player's/Ai's turn until its captured.

  3. #63

    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Quote Originally Posted by ★RedStar★ View Post
    I could easely replay the turn but I dont like the fact you make things seem clear though things are far from clear. If you are not satisfied with this, you guys feel free to replace me.
    I started out apologizing for the confusion, then further clarifying. It's the very first rule listed under the rules and written as I quoted.

    Be careful of accusing others of calling it obvious when you've doubled down in the same manner. Getting into a chicken race with the admin about rules seem a very bad idea, much as I certainly agree with you and Mergor basically nails it, saying it not being obvious for either side. My stance is that both interpretations are valid, much as I slightly lean towards the admins - however he is the admin and the arbitrator of precisely things like this.

    Please reconsider leaving.
    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

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  4. #64

    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    First to say that I never make a move before I m 100% sure its not against the rules. And if I have any doubts I speak to the admin first. So obviously this is not that case.

    Secondly, my job is to interpret and clarify various rules on a daily basis so, though I m not a language expert, at least for english, I would not recommend anyone to try beat me in that argument. For example, one could say that even if you only occupy a settlement and during the same turn you gift it to an AI faction, you still broke the rule because you had kept it, at least from the moment you captured it till the moment AI accepted the gift. And that is not much different from what I did. And this only speaks how stupid this rule is.


    Must also say that I dont care much what the final admin's decision will be. If I would replay, my moves would be exactly same as I already made, except I would gift the settlement back to the HRE if I have to. So my propose is that we keep on and in the next Norway turn admin can do whatever he thinks is right. But I would just advise him the next time before he publicly announces that I or anyone else broke the rules, try to speak that person first.

  5. #65
    REDBOOSTY's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    It's important for me that you all realize that i always try to make the fairest decisions for everyone in a conflict. Furthermore i know that my decisions might be interpreted differently form individual to individual. With all of this said i understand both povs on the issue. From what i know, RedStar is not someone who exploits the rules any more the average player. One player might have one understanding of the rules ans another a different understanding. With all of this said i will allow RedStar this action for this one time, under the condition that he leaves all of his troops/GB/spies from the settlement. I will allow this as i also agree about the rules being a bit vague.

    Furthermore i will like to propose that the rule is changed to "You can go outside the border, but are not allowed to siege any form of settlements outside of the border"
    "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his"

    -G. Patton

  6. #66
    Ramble12's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Quote Originally Posted by REDBOOSTY View Post
    It's important for me that you all realize that i always try to make the fairest decisions for everyone in a conflict. Furthermore i know that my decisions might be interpreted differently form individual to individual. With all of this said i understand both povs on the issue. From what i know, RedStar is not someone who exploits the rules any more the average player. One player might have one understanding of the rules ans another a different understanding. With all of this said i will allow RedStar this action for this one time, under the condition that he leaves all of his troops/GB/spies from the settlement. I will allow this as i also agree about the rules being a bit vague.

    Furthermore i will like to propose that the rule is changed to "You can go outside the border, but are not allowed to siege any form of settlements outside of the border"
    I think the money that Redstar gets from it on turn end should be removed as well.

    As of the rule, just prohibit taking any settlement outside the border. It already is a stupid, poorly explained rule, since it favours only a part of the players, when neither Denmark or TO are in as good position as the rest to take and occupy (which still gives gold) settlements outside the border. Am afraid with your proposed rule people will be taking them with spies, because technically they don't involve siege.

  7. #67

    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    I'll contact everyone about addressing the rule for both the hotseats, the intent is for people to be allowed capturing settlements outside the border. But then give it to another faction via diplomacy so a secure border is made without constant invasions. Furthermore, to allow sneak attacks from marching via outside the border We can change this however if people so wish, until then you must give up the region the very turn you capture it via diplomacy to AI.

    Immediately hardly seem reasonable to take as anything but the very turn one plays, giving up is what's rather subjective is it not?
    None of these rules are written to be law, it's an international gamer forum with rules worked out over time by laymen and should be thought of as such.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramble12 View Post
    I think the money that Redstar gets from it on turn end should be removed as well.

    As of the rule, just prohibit taking any settlement outside the border. It already is a stupid, poorly explained rule, since it favours only a part of the players, when neither Denmark or TO are in as good position as the rest to take and occupy (which still gives gold) settlements outside the border. Am afraid with your proposed rule people will be taking them with spies, because technically they don't involve siege.
    The money is not against the rule, he may occupy as stated. We could change the rules however, we'll see if that's done.

    I'd not like that as I am just about to take Kiev and force peace with Novgorod tho xD
    Last edited by Mithridate; November 15, 2018 at 02:02 PM.
    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

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  8. #68

    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramble12 View Post
    I think the money that Redstar gets from it on turn end should be removed as well.
    As I said it is likely that the HRE will take Cologne back during their turn so I'll get no additional money from it at the end of the turn. If not, in the next turn I can gift the settlement and money to the HRE or any other faction or admin can remove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by REDBOOSTY View Post
    Furthermore i will like to propose that the rule is changed to "You can go outside the border, but are not allowed to siege any form of settlements outside of the border"
    I'm fine with this but since I have already used the rule someone could say in my favor, it would be fair to give others the opportunity to do the same So what Mith proposed seems to be adequate to prevent any future confusion.

  9. #69
    Ramble12's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Will do my turn this night. Or tomorrow day at the latest

  10. #70
    Ramble12's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)


  11. #71
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Extension required, since Mith already sent me the save and as usual, didn't post.

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  13. #73

    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Last edited by ★RedStar★; November 21, 2018 at 05:04 PM.

  14. #74
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel of Time turns
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    I'll need an extension till tomorrow morning

    Edit: Poland up! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z6c...ew?usp=sharing

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    He who thought the north weak has pushed hard, but the North pushes back. The Teutons made a quick attack and took Kalmar. Their army seems to have disappeared in the Scandinavian woods, likely lost, no one knows where they are. However, for the past few weeks a select few Danes, as soon as word reached them of Kalmars fall pressed on. Going north, in a wide arc around the Teuton invasion they evaded sight, before infiltrating Kalmar with spies, well helped by the populace who much wanted to see the tyrannical Teutons gone. The vikings swarmed the castle, overwhelming the foul defenders. Kalmar was back in Danish hands, where it belongs. All those who thought the Danes dead and done for were wrong, there was still fight left. The Teutons would regret attacking the Danes, for the wrath of the North was upon them

    Last edited by King Athelstan; November 23, 2018 at 04:14 AM. Reason: Turn done
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  15. #75
    Ramble12's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)


  16. #76

    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    A bold strike has been carried out by Reivedys, leading a small force he tracked down Councilor Conrad and his troop of knights and sappers. On the small island west of Reval they were finally engaged, even attempting to ambush us as we landed - Lithuanian men are born and bred to fight in woods unlike these mounted invaders.



    If I should return
    With my body on my shield
    Tell my son I chose to die than yield
    Though my life may soon be gone
    I hope you'll carry on
    Remember me as one who would not kneel


    You do well to be wary to trespass our lands Teuton, we are of the earth, the forest, the sky -
    We we know it well and love death more than you do life, or your so called heaven.

    I'll fight with blood
    Fight with steel
    Die with honor
    Never yield
    Fearless hearts
    Filled with pride
    Into glory we shall ride
    Into glory we shall ride



    Outnumbered twenty to one, far from any allies - the exhausted men marched upon and liberated Reval.
    We'll make our stand here, come and get us if you dare.
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    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

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  17. #77
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)


  18. #78

    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Don't be a prick, don't be a whiny little child - Stop White Genocide and Praise Jesus.

    Very nice, Getting a good picture everybody? So we look nice and handsome and thin? Thank you. -The God Emperor, creating world peace and unforgettable memes
    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/statu...48737210662912 <-- Unforgettable face.

  19. #79

  20. #80
    Mergor's Avatar T H E | G O R
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    Default Re: [SS:HS] You Can't Fight Fate (Full)

    Here are some pics I forgot. https://postimg.cc/gallery/dfbao64y/
    Although doesn't matter too much, from what I heard I'll just be smashed next turn anyway

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