Governor units, what do you think?

[Zarax]

Hi, I'm posting a poll about a small idea I had to have more manageable cities:

All towns will be able to recruit a small heavy infantry unit (smallest possible size so 3-5 men) that can be used as town regent (allowing better management) and an handy town garrison reinforcement (although not a battle winner).

Pros:

- You won't need family members in your cities anymore

- Recruitable governors might help economy overall

Cons:

- You might get less family members due to abundance of generals

- general payrolls might get heavy if you got lots of small towns

What do you think?

[Maraxus]

sounds great. Could you make them completely militarily inept? to prevent them from coming cheap mini generals?

[Zarax]

Well, a minimum size unit of heavy infantry stops having any influence on anything better that a quarter stack of levy units...

[Maraxus]

Well, a minimum size unit of heavy infantry stops having any influence on anything better that a quarter stack of levy units...

I mean having no stars or military ancillaries so you'd have to play the battle on the battle map or let the computer fight it for you and lose.

[Cymera]

i'd have to say no, perhaps introducing a building like in M2TW, mayor's palace or something like that. too many generals nullifies the economic bonus you would receive right? unless u make the governor units increase income by a large factor, it would not be worth it. however, i suggest that units like lieutenants and lower level governors (sorry i don't recall the exact term) that, can respectively provide bonuses for either the towns, or the troops would be awesome.

I mean can u imagine? a Greek or Roman army does not have a general to lead it into battle... recruit a lieutenant from a ludas magna (sp?) and have that officer have a lower upkeep then a general, but still some command ability. Lower level governors, also recruited from a ludas magna, can provide some economic benefits, but only that, no religious or military retinue. these would be awesome!

i realize the place for this is the discussions thread, but i got the ideas flowing!

[DimeBagHo]

I think it's an interesting idea. Limiting retinue and traits might require a significant amount of work - all the triggers would have to be re-worked to distinguish between real family members and governors.

[Cymera]

if its too much work, then maybe its not worth it, there are a ton of great ideas, but if some require too much work, then they may need to be rethought...

o and btw what happened to the XGM sig? it disappeared one day and i haven't been able to get it back...

[RedFox]

It does seem like an interesting idea, though, to slow down player's expansion, it would be nice if the current order stayed, having a bunch of mini-generals would kill the necessity for generals governing the cities, resulting in armies getting flooded with killer general units.
This should be definently looked into, but should also be carefully balanced so the player wouldn't exploit it...

[Zarax]

Well, I think you're overestimating the influence of such an unit in the game.
Here are a few points:

1) being a minimum size infantry unit it would be pretty much ineffective in battle on itself, only real benefit would be the morale increase given by the general's unit attribute and in an open field would be something you would have to babysit unlike the standard generals, so no use outside cities.

2) Due to 1 price would be lower, your economy would be seriously affected only if you put them in every 400 people village you have, otherwise management bonuses should offset their upkeep and wages.
The idea is to have a quickly recruitable unit that allows you to free your real generals from city governing duties, not spamming killer generals.

3) It would be self balancing in a way as the more governors you have the less family members would be available in the long run.

All in all you could think about is as an equivalent of MTW2 carroccio standard with lesser battle use and some bonuses in cities.

[RedFox]

Acctually, you misunderstood me, I meant that the player would take all of his real generals on to the battlefield, they make a fine unit in my opinion and 3-4 of them together with infantry support can quickly decimate enemy's phalanx/infantry.

A way to balance this would have the governors have low loyalty, so you have to be careful where to put them, should result in enemies more easily bribing your settlements and cities to more probably go over to the Greek Independent cities...

[Zarax]

Well, as I said before in the long run it would be self balancing as the more generals you have the less family members you will get so that in a few dozen turns you might end up with little more than faction leader and faction heir, which would be quite inadequate once you get around a dozen cities...

In the end we cannot know without testing...

[Cymera]

sounds like a good new idea, something following in the XGM tradition!

[Dulce_et_Decorum_Est]

This is an excellent idea. Here's a few ideas:


1) If ancillaries are a concern, script the governors to come pre-equipped with eight relatively bland and useless ancillaries (secretary types that would grant 2% bonuses on law and such). This would probably necessitate making new ancillaries, but my recollection is that that is a fairly easy bit of work.

2) One major benefit of the governors would be that they could be sent to large core cities, while proper family members could be sent to the empire's outskirts to fight all those important wars.

3) A phalanx of three guys is worse than useless if it's got the commander in it. Making these units ten men would make them more of an asset, rather than a liability in battle. Moreover, the other guys in the squad could represent the governor's ancillaries.

4) All governors should have the appearantly loyal trait. They are, after all, political risers who don't have family connections, so they would naturally be desperate to advance themselves in any way possible.

5) Infantry generals are a cool idea generally. I like the idea of generals who fight it out in front with the grunts, instead of riding away at the first sign of danger. At times, that would even be historically accurate! Perhaps the Spartan Royal Guard could be a general's unit as well?

[Zarax]

Well, the idea is to have an unit that will just enable you to keep cities better under control, governors aren't meant to be generals on the battlefield but rather to stay in the cities and maybe bolster militia morale, something that an unit of 3-5 units (would be infantry like thorakitai rather than phalanx) would be good for...

Of course if the governor starts to be influential then the bodyguard size would increase giving you a more substantial force for battle but still nothing that will turn the tide on itself...

[Dulce_et_Decorum_Est]

Well, the idea is to have an unit that will just enable you to keep cities better under control, governors aren't meant to be generals on the battlefield but rather to stay in the cities and maybe bolster militia morale, something that an unit of 3-5 units (would be infantry like thorakitai rather than phalanx) would be good for...

Of course if the governor starts to be influential then the bodyguard size would increase giving you a more substantial force for battle but still nothing that will turn the tide on itself...

That would work fine, although I'm of the opinion that any general's unit that's so small could easily become a liability. They can't be so small that they're trivial to kill.

I like the idea of making them around ten, although making them different sizes for different factions would be interesting to play with.

I think that adding more general's units would be a good thing across the board. Elephant mounted generals, for example, would be quite imposing. You could even have a camel-mounted general called Lawrance!

[Cymera]

The governor's bodyguard could be a small number (10-15) of heavy infantry, like Praetorian cohorts for the Romans, or a sacred band for the Greeks. Don't forget about the Lieutenants! i think they could make a great addition, even if all they are is a smaller unit with the "legionary eagle" trait, to boost morale.

[RedFox]

I think there's no reason why they should have a lot of units, a symolic number like 16 would do the job. Have them be rare elites, who can put up a heroic last stand in the Plaza, not too strong though (something like spartans or praetorians).

[Cymera]

See what i said It would make sense since any city, eve without a family member, is still run by someone, and they should have guards.

[Cymera]

LOL Lawrance!!! nice one! Well i think it would be good to have 2 separate "leader" units. A governor unit for cities and a sort of lieutenant for the army. The Governor would have a small guard (10-15) while the Lieutenant could have a more sizable for such as 30-50 soldiers.

[Dulce_et_Decorum_Est]

If you don't mind me asking, how would the lieutenant be any different than the recruitable generals?