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Thread: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

  1. #1
    Malcolm's Avatar Miles
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    Default How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Hi all.

    I played TOB for the first time the other day. I was impressed by a lot of what I saw - the campaign map is a massive improvement on any total war game I have played, the siege maps were great, titles are finally making a comeback - the list goes on.

    There was a lot that I thought they haven't got right yet, so I thought I would put forward a few suggestions on how they might "fix" TOB and see what everyone else thinks.

    Now, I'm from Scotland and I was playing as Circenn so a few of the points will be based specifically on that faction but I'd be interested to know if there are other issues with factions which are similar.

    And so we begin:

    1 - (A small point) Get rid of the Stone of Scone missions for Circenn.

    These are really silly, I got told that rumours the stone was in some random territory in the south of England and that I should go and capture that settlement. I mean, why is it missing? The whole story line just seems pointless. It would be much better to just have this as a Stone of Scone perk for the faction.

    2 - Please change the names of units!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Again focussing on Circenn, they use the word "Alban" before the units. Alban doesn't mean anything (other than possibly a cute name for "small Scotland"). Instead just go and google "Scottish" in Gaelic and put that in, for example rather than "Alban Spearmen" it could be "Spearmen Albanach".

    Don't get me started on the Strat Clut unit names. I mean, who thought calling them "Welsh Spearmen" was a good idea?! A simple fix for this would be calling them "Cumbric Spearmen" or "Brythonic Spearmen".

    And that comes neatly onto the next fix...

    3 - Change "Welsh Kingdoms" to "Cumbric Kingdoms"

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

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    If any of you have ever studied this period of history (as I did at University in Scotland), you will understand that this makes waaaay more sense than "Welsh Kingdoms" - which makes almost no sense.

    Now for the bigger changes...

    4 - Areas of Recruitment

    Each region should contain different areas of recruitment. It just makes no sense that as soon as you conquer an enemy province, you can recruit the exact same units you could at home. It makes no sense.

    Each region should give you units depending on what culture that region predominantly is. Below is an example of how that might look if Circenn conquered a "Welsh" (God help me ) region:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This would make the composition of armies far more interesting if the units were specific to certain regions. Conquering certain provinces could also unlock unique hybrid units... just a thought.

    5 - Nobility & Titles

    Really glad to see titles making a comeback but I think they just aren't quite there yet so here is my fix.

    Change Governers to "High Nobility" or something like that. Have them unlocked so they can act as generals in armies as well. Instead of being called Governers, they could receive titles such as "Lord", "Earl", "Mormaer" and so on depending on where the title is. This could be shown in the characters details panel (like this one below)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nobility 3.jpg 
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    If you wanted to take it even further you could have a specific banner for each "high nobility" general unit in battle, like the one shown below...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nobility 2.jpg 
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ID:	355134


    This would mean that you would have nobles from a specific region, controlling an army that consists of units from that region. Army composition would be waay more interesting and fun.

    You could even introduce missions that appear - being specific to certain High Nobles and the lands they want, like this wee example below:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nobility Quest.jpg 
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ID:	355135


    I thought that faction management became a bit boring and tiresome. And while titles being there are a step in the right direction, it would be more immersive if these characters could control armies from their regions.

    6 - Campaign Map AI

    This one is simple. It needs tweaking. Allies don't seem at all fussed to suddenly wage war against you.

    7 - Bring Back Ambushes!

    I know that CA said hardly anyone played ambushes but that's largely down to the fact that the campaign map wasn't making it that attractive an option. In TOB with the much closer map, ambushes would be a really useful tool, particularly with armies going through mountain passes and things like that.

    Maybe they could even make it a perk that a general gets, like this example below:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ambush Stance 1.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	681.5 KB 
ID:	355136


    And before you say, "but ambushes weren't really a thing back then"... they were.

    8 - Time Penalty When Moving To Ships

    This one is pretty simple. If you are transferring your men into a fleet, there should be an amount of turns you have to wait in the settlement, depending on the size of the army, before you can set sail. It's just a bit mental being able to sail off into the horizon with an enormous army instantly.

    9 - Better Battle Maps

    This has been a problem for ages. Not sure why battle maps are so boring and featureless but it needs to change. There have been some improvements, with some kind of impassable marshland appearing on battle maps in Ireland but the overwhelming majority of maps have absolutely no obstacles to get around apart from a gentle hill and some trees. It's not realistic and it makes battles really repetitive.

    That's it, that's all I've got for now. I'd be interested to hear if/what people agree with. I'd be even more interested to hear that CA have read this and are going to make some changes but I won't hold my breath (and I only have +1 influence right now anyway).

    Thanks for sticking with it.

  2. #2
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Interesting points. I will recheck this thread later.

  3. #3
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    1,2,3,
    I can live with those ..sorrrry :-) And sadly my knowledge of land and history is too narrow in this particular time period and space so i would not try to propose changes...
    4 - Areas of Recruitment

    Each region should contain different areas of recruitment. It just makes no sense that as soon as you conquer an enemy province, you can recruit the exact same units you could at home. It makes no sense.

    Each region should give you units depending on what culture that region predominantly is. Below is an example of how that might look if Circenn conquered a "Welsh" (God help me ) region:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AoR 1.jpg 
Views:	47 
Size:	312.5 KB 
ID:	355132


    This would make the composition of armies far more interesting if the units were specific to certain regions. Conquering certain provinces could also unlock unique hybrid units... just a thought.
    I would have both system. Core units according to your faction/technologies and local recruitment option. It would be nice to differenciate their rate of replenishment. If you are in home region for particular unit, it will get boost.

    5 - Nobility & Titles

    Really glad to see titles making a comeback but I think they just aren't quite there yet so here is my fix.

    Change Governers to "High Nobility" or something like that. Have them unlocked so they can act as generals in armies as well. Instead of being called Governers, they could receive titles such as "Lord", "Earl", "Mormaer" and so on depending on where the title is. This could be shown in the characters details panel (like this one below)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nobility 3.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	665.1 KB 
ID:	355133


    If you wanted to take it even further you could have a specific banner for each "high nobility" general unit in battle, like the one shown below...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nobility 2.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	402.3 KB 
ID:	355134


    This would mean that you would have nobles from a specific region, controlling an army that consists of units from that region. Army composition would be waay more interesting and fun.

    You could even introduce missions that appear - being specific to certain High Nobles and the lands they want, like this wee example below:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nobility Quest.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	713.1 KB 
ID:	355135


    I thought that faction management became a bit boring and tiresome. And while titles being there are a step in the right direction, it would be more immersive if these characters could control armies from their regions.
    Actually i would like to tie the titles to the estates. Add more building branches where you can decide if you build certain estate to grant title of more lucrative economical structure like splitting buidlign tree for main buidling in province capitol. Which will create the governors estate and so and so. Basically having more tiers of these estates for different bonuses,desires...

    Also more offices like 5 instead of 3 would be better.

    6 - Campaign Map AI

    This one is simple. It needs tweaking. Allies don't seem at all fussed to suddenly wage war against you.
    True But I think it is more tied with difficulty bonuses. To me it looks like AI at higher difficulties is way to aggressive and attack player for any reason even bad weather. However at lower difficulties it seems to work more reliably. It reminds me Shogun 2 where vassals after a few turns almost always attacked me.

    7 - Bring Back Ambushes!

    I know that CA said hardly anyone played ambushes but that's largely down to the fact that the campaign map wasn't making it that attractive an option. In TOB with the much closer map, ambushes would be a really useful tool, particularly with armies going through mountain passes and things like that.

    Maybe they could even make it a perk that a general gets, like this example below:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ambush Stance 1.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	681.5 KB 
ID:	355136


    And before you say, "but ambushes weren't really a thing back then"... they were.
    Only if they can be updated to WHs standards. If not,i can live without them.. :-)

    8 - Time Penalty When Moving To Ships

    This one is pretty simple. If you are transferring your men into a fleet, there should be an amount of turns you have to wait in the settlement, depending on the size of the army, before you can set sail. It's just a bit mental being able to sail off into the horizon with an enormous army instantly.
    Agree.

    9 - Better Battle Maps

    This has been a problem for ages. Not sure why battle maps are so boring and featureless but it needs to change. There have been some improvements, with some kind of impassable marshland appearing on battle maps in Ireland but the overwhelming majority of maps have absolutely no obstacles to get around apart from a gentle hill and some trees. It's not realistic and it makes battles really repetitive.

    That's it, that's all I've got for now. I'd be interested to hear if/what people agree with. I'd be even more interested to hear that CA have read this and are going to make some changes but I won't hold my breath (and I only have +1 influence right now anyway).

    Thanks for sticking with it.
    This is like general problem. More obstacles and points of interests...marshes, sands, impassable forests, things like bridges ...I don´t know. Do you remember in Empire/Napoleon those random building you could occupy? Something like that. Barrows? Some structures? Rivers? Cliffs? ...

    Well Anyway if I can propose some changes:

    1 - Garrison for minor settlements

    I already stated it. Once I grow my empire, number of armies is pretty limited and i cannot protect every province. Paired with very slow movement and occasional invasions from sea etc. I need army to deal with it. Usually even major city garrison is not up to task and city will fail. So I´m usually keeping behind smaller army/older units which is enought to hold major city (with garrison) but has no chance fighting for minor one. So adding just a few units could be great, especially if you there were building branches adding more garrison for lower economy bonuses..
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  4. #4
    Malcolm's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    I can live with those ..sorrrry :-) And sadly my knowledge of land and history is too narrow in this particular time period and space so i would not try to propose changes...
    The historian in me dies a little inside every time I see the unit names and "Welsh" plastered over the Strat Clut faction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    I would have both system. Core units according to your faction/technologies and local recruitment option. It would be nice to differenciate their rate of replenishment. If you are in home region for particular unit, it will get boost.
    I really like the idea of home units getting a boost in their regions. The annoying thing is I don't see how anyone will be able to create a mod that has any kind of local recruitment system. I don't understand why CA went the way it is in TOB? It just doesn't make any sense that you capture a region and instantly can recruit your indigenous units immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Actually i would like to tie the titles to the estates. Add more building branches where you can decide if you build certain estate to grant title of more lucrative economical structure like splitting buidlign tree for main buidling in province capitol. Which will create the governors estate and so and so. Basically having more tiers of these estates for different bonuses,desires...

    Also more offices like 5 instead of 3 would be better.
    I'd like to know if it is possible to mod any of this stuff. 5 offices of state would be far better than the (almost pointless 3 we have just now). One thing I would really like to come from this is for "governors" to be able to command armies (that aren't just defending the capital). It's like having your highest nobles hiding away all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Only if they can be updated to WHs standards. If not,i can live without them.. :-)
    I haven't played WH but if ambushes were effective in it, then I'm tempted. Battles are just a little stale after a while in TOB (and a lot of other TW series) because the maps are soo bland that most battles are identical. Ambushes just added a different option, that was a risk, but something you needed when in a tricky situation. Terrible decision to get rid of them, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    This is like general problem. More obstacles and points of interests...marshes, sands, impassable forests, things like bridges ...I don´t know. Do you remember in Empire/Napoleon those random building you could occupy? Something like that. Barrows? Some structures? Rivers? Cliffs? ...
    I have no idea why CA make such boring battle maps! Is it because of balance for multiplayer? Would people really complain if there was geographic features on their battle maps, making it more of a challenge? At the VERY LEAST they should make the battle maps easily moddable so that people can do the work CA should have done in the first place on these.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Well Anyway if I can propose some changes:

    1 - Garrison for minor settlements

    I already stated it. Once I grow my empire, number of armies is pretty limited and i cannot protect every province. Paired with very slow movement and occasional invasions from sea etc. I need army to deal with it. Usually even major city garrison is not up to task and city will fail. So I´m usually keeping behind smaller army/older units which is enought to hold major city (with garrison) but has no chance fighting for minor one. So adding just a few units could be great, especially if you there were building branches adding more garrison for lower economy bonuses..
    For all my sins I quite like small settlements not having garrisons. If an army was coming up to a small settlement - they would never have put up a resistance when outnumbered and no defences. I have seen quite a few people complain about this but the good news is there are mods that fix this one for you!

    I think if the changes to the Area of Recruitment & the titles were implemented in either a mod or by CA, Thrones would be a really interesting (and actually unique) TW game.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    The historian in me dies a little inside every time I see the unit names and "Welsh" plastered over the Strat Clut faction.
    Being physicist i´m spared of such horrors. But if you would prefer such change, I´m for it as well! For me, one unpronounceable name is the same as next one. Especially if I know no details.
    I really like the idea of home units getting a boost in their regions. The annoying thing is I don't see how anyone will be able to create a mod that has any kind of local recruitment system. I don't understand why CA went the way it is in TOB? It just doesn't make any sense that you capture a region and instantly can recruit your indigenous units immediately.
    I was not yet poking in ToB modding but it should not be too hard. They either went with units available in all regions or there should be script for units which means it could be change to offer particular units in particular region..In first case we can create unique building chains for each particular settlement which will grant local unit recruitment...just idea.
    I'd like to know if it is possible to mod any of this stuff. 5 offices of state would be far better than the (almost pointless 3 we have just now). One thing I would really like to come from this is for "governors" to be able to command armies (that aren't just defending the capital). It's like having your highest nobles hiding away all the time.
    The estates should be, they are already in game so adding bigger variety should be possible, linking it to traits and desires. Offices could be but changing governors to be part of city garrison. That would requireprobably some script.
    I haven't played WH but if ambushes were effective in it, then I'm tempted. Battles are just a little stale after a while in TOB (and a lot of other TW series) because the maps are soo bland that most battles are identical. Ambushes just added a different option, that was a risk, but something you needed when in a tricky situation. Terrible decision to get rid of them, I think.
    Ambushes are quite common and working as you would expect in WHs. Factions have different kind of stances to boost it or it can happen during some travel stances..like dwarfs and Skaven using underway. Skavens usually like ambushes very very very often.

    Anyway the point it, it is working in WH. If CA can update it to WH standard, then i´m really for adding them back. But adding ambushes if they are unable to improve it, then it lose sense.
    I have no idea why CA make such boring battle maps! Is it because of balance for multiplayer? Would people really complain if there was geographic features on their battle maps, making it more of a challenge? At the VERY LEAST they should make the battle maps easily moddable so that people can do the work CA should have done in the first place on these.
    [/quote]
    More likely that adding extreme features or objects will impact map generator heavily. Like having bridge over river.
    For all my sins I quite like small settlements not having garrisons. If an army was coming up to a small settlement - they would never have put up a resistance when outnumbered and no defences. I have seen quite a few people complain about this but the good news is there are mods that fix this one for you!
    This is my personal opinion, I know it is not historical and it is changing game pace but I like the way. So i´m fine with a mod solution for this. :-)
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  6. #6
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Being physicist i´m spared of such horrors. But if you would prefer such change, I´m for it as well! For me, one unpronounceable name is the same as next one. Especially if I know no details.
    Do you have any complaints from a physicist's point of view though?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Greek Strategos♔ View Post
    Do you have any complaints from a physicist's point of view though?
    Not really until we get TW about lasers,particle weaponry and shielding or anything with such advance technology

    But in general mass depiction, charges, horses etc could be done better even ships on Rome 2 / Empire. However i´m always for fun over realistic approach. I like things as Beach landings in Rome 2, Naval Artillery in FotS because they are adding more functional stuff and mechanics. So having more deployables before siege battles, ability to construct barricades, fire spreading, city demolition in sieges...or garrisonable buildings like in Empire. That´s one thing I´m currently really missing on battlefield. So from this list naturally not all things are suitable for all time period, locations. But even more random generates things like bridges (destroyable), small rivers (engineers being able to build up ponton), marhslands or bogs or cliff and maybe even impenetrable forests could be great.

    One things that would be really great for future would be bigger army management for each army. Like instead of army with one general, you will he special panel where you can put some units into different part of army like vanguard,rearguard,flanks, main core, scouts.. each one under subcommander (more space for characters) under main commander, each of these special forces with different roles in battles. :-) These would further enhance ability to lay ambush/scout ambush and arrive on battlefield not in one part. You know the scout terrain pre battle? What if this option will allows you to put flanks, some units in key positions depending on stats. It would work better with battle maps from Napoleon/Empire where were common bridges or buildings...

    Better scouts allow/prevent ambushes. Can hold advance point on map ...like vanguard deployment to hold bridge for example.
    Flanks can hold some key areas on flanks like passes, roads...will reinforce behind/side of enemy army and prevent such deployment of enemy flanking units? So they cannot easily charge middle of your baggage train/sige weaponry and so..
    ...

    Yeah, it is more general idea. Not just for ToB but I think battles can be way more complex with just some additions..
    Last edited by Daruwind; October 02, 2018 at 08:14 PM.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  8. #8
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Not really until we get TW about lasers,particle weaponry and shielding or anything with such advance technology

    But in general mass depiction, charges, horses etc could be done better even ships on Rome 2 / Empire. However i´m always for fun over realistic approach. I like things as Beach landings in Rome 2, Naval Artillery in FotS because they are adding more functional stuff and mechanics. So having more deployables before siege battles, ability to construct barricades, fire spreading, city demolition in sieges...or garrisonable buildings like in Empire. That´s one thing I´m currently really missing on battlefield. So from this list naturally not all things are suitable for all time period, locations. But even more random generates things like bridges (destroyable), small rivers (engineers being able to build up ponton), marhslands or bogs or cliff and maybe even impenetrable forests could be great.

    One things that would be really great for future would be bigger army management for each army. Like instead of army with one general, you will he special panel where you can put some units into different part of army like vanguard,rearguard,flanks, main core, scouts.. each one under subcommander (more space for characters) under main commander, each of these special forces with different roles in battles. :-) These would further enhance ability to lay ambush/scout ambush and arrive on battlefield not in one part. You know the scout terrain pre battle? What if this option will allows you to put flanks, some units in key positions depending on stats. It would work better with battle maps from Napoleon/Empire where were common bridges or buildings...

    Better scouts allow/prevent ambushes. Can hold advance point on map ...like vanguard deployment to hold bridge for example.
    Flanks can hold some key areas on flanks like passes, roads...will reinforce behind/side of enemy army and prevent such deployment of enemy flanking units? So they cannot easily charge middle of your baggage train/sige weaponry and so..
    ...

    Yeah, it is more general idea. Not just for ToB but I think battles can be way more complex with just some additions..
    I strongly agree. I would very much like to see army micromanagement, maybe with more officers and special units-roles as you said and better deployables with more choices would be neat too.
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; October 03, 2018 at 06:31 AM.

  9. #9
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    A few interesting ideas here. Me, I'd like to see some rules concerning activation of the generals, as they're in the Aleia Iacta Est. This would bolster up their role in the campaign.

  10. #10
    Malcolm's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    One things that would be really great for future would be bigger army management for each army. Like instead of army with one general, you will he special panel where you can put some units into different part of army like vanguard,rearguard,flanks, main core, scouts.. each one under subcommander (more space for characters) under main commander, each of these special forces with different roles in battles. :-) These would further enhance ability to lay ambush/scout ambush and arrive on battlefield not in one part. You know the scout terrain pre battle? What if this option will allows you to put flanks, some units in key positions depending on stats. It would work better with battle maps from Napoleon/Empire where were common bridges or buildings...

    Better scouts allow/prevent ambushes. Can hold advance point on map ...like vanguard deployment to hold bridge for example.
    Flanks can hold some key areas on flanks like passes, roads...will reinforce behind/side of enemy army and prevent such deployment of enemy flanking units? So they cannot easily charge middle of your baggage train/sige weaponry and so..
    ...

    Yeah, it is more general idea. Not just for ToB but I think battles can be way more complex with just some additions..
    That's a great idea Daruwind!

    I mentioned in my 'fixes' that Governers (who should be earls/lords) should be activated as generals. Couple that with regional recruitment - different units from different regions. Some regions better at different types of warfare - and carrying their own banners in battle to differentiate them from troops from other regions (as well as their national flags). Then add your idea of army management and that would make battles far more interesting!

    I think that TW has been suffering recently of becoming too bland. I thought the campaign map on Thrones of Britannia was a big improvement but these kind of changes we're talking about would make both the campaign and the battles far more interesting and challenging.

    Loving these ideas - makes me wish the modding tools were more comprehensive!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Well, I´m not good enough to mod such things but I started yesterday by visiting PFM and had look at ToB tables. Deciphered the new ones from Allegiance Update so i can maybe play a little more with estates,titles,desires...all ToB tables should be now deciphered :-)

    BTW 3K will have armies composed from up three (sub)commanders. To this is also first instance while multiple characters can lead,influence battlefiend. It is just one small step to my vision.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  12. #12
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    BTW 3K will have armies composed from up three (sub)commanders. To this is also first instance while multiple characters can lead,influence battlefiend. It is just one small step to my vision.
    Υep I saw it too. That's a great step indeed.

  13. #13

    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Hello all! I am new here, just have started playing in Britannia. Like it, but have many questions (play video games not too often).

  14. #14

    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Some of this is nitpicking, but this WAS made by a British studio full of all types of Brits, they should be able to have a basic grasp of their own history shouldn't they ....
    those Arcani Ninja's for Rome all make sense now

  15. #15

    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    I've completed five or six campaigns in the game, including two Ultimate Victories. Run another five or seven through the first of the several victory conditions, and another ten or twelve where I go my butt handed to me on a platter. The game is fine now, with the last update.
    "The trouble with facts is that there are so many of them." - Samuel McChord Crothers

  16. #16
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    This is an interesting opinion and very much different from my own. I think that after the January update the game has been dumbed down so much that it makes absolutely no point to play it. There's absolutely no challenge at all.
    At the beginning, Jack Lusted visibly tried to provide a player with challenges but now there're no constraints. It's not a game anymore.
    Given that there're no reasonable gameplay-improving mods, there's no point to play the game, imho.
    And I think I know the game inside-out (also achieved the ultimate victory, painted the map in 200 turns), you may have a look at the review - the link is in my sig.
    JoC

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; April 30, 2019 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Spoilers added.
    Mod leader of the SSHIP: traits, ancillaries, scripts, buildings, geography, economy.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................
    If you want to play a historical mod in the medieval setting the best are:
    Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project and Broken Crescent.
    Recently, Tsardoms and TGC look also very good. Read my opinions on the other mods here.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods (all made in 2018): SSHIP, Wrath of the Norsemen, Broken Crescent.
    Follow home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Hints for Medieval 2 moders: forts, merchants, AT-NGB bug, trade fleets.
    Thrones of Britannia: review, opinion on the battles, ideas for modding. Shieldwall is promising!
    Dominant strategy in Rome2, Attila, ToB and Troy: “Sniping groups of armies”. Still there, alas!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    Did not play the game yet (waiting for Shieldwall mod), but the suggestions of Malcolm sound great. I'd especially be pleased by better fitting names, a (rather harsh) AoR recruiting system and a more realistic ship boarding. DeI has a nice AoR mechanic, I don't know how difficult it were to implement here.

  18. #18
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    So I have been lately on achievement hunt and got a few ideas:

    -Recruitment - new system is really helping AI to build army without any major settlement or particular buildings. However I noticed that AI has problems with replenishing armies. If I strike quickly or defeat enemy attack..let´s say 3-4 armies, even the biggest empire is for period of time without proper army. Not sure if Ai is running out of money or recruiting options...

    -Siege maps for major settlements - they are awesome. Sadly in majority of fights AI is manning only segment around my army. The maps are way big, enough space to 2vs2 armies even with reinforcements....offering multiple great defensive obstacles, moats...that would be great for quick skirmishes,.....offering multiple layers of defense. Basically bigger multi stack battles are rare. I know that AI not great with multi stacks and with bigger garrisons AI probably would rarely take any major town. This being said, I changed my mind about minor settlements and garrisons. No garrison is okay. After a few playthroughts looks like AI is reluctant to take even small towns. So i tried a few games without garrisons for minor settlements and it felt more alive...and quicker. The campaign map is pretty big...

    -Characters. I like how I can switch between general/governor, problem is, there is no point in doing so at any time. My leveled Governor is simply too much precious in his specific role as are generals in theirs.It is too easy to build proper warrior/general as is level up governor with single aim to get more taxes while being half priest There are simply some categories that are never good enough to pick...bard for example. Honestly I would completely rework those. Put them all together and offer only a few path with possible branches. Offer positive and negative combination at the same time both for governors and generals.

    What i currently pick in 99%:
    Generals-> quartermaster, champion, siege engineer
    governors-> priest, scribe..forager

    never ever pillager and bard...so change it into something:

    changes:
    ....
    Zealot: +loyalty/-taxes // +berserk...fighting/-supplies
    Harsh: +taxes/-public order // +movement/-supplies ,
    Survivor: +food in province/-supplies? allegience? // +sieges/-command

    The traits that are acquired semi randomly are great...ok some like my characters getting mad way too often.

    At the same time I would change system that for every province player needs governor/general and that character can fullfil both roles at the same time. You cannot be general without being the noble governor. Plus i would create higher provincies for higher nobility. More state offices. And more dynamic desires for generals to wish to get higher military function, for nobles/governors to wish for moving into higher nobility or for nobles to acquire more profitable province at all.

    Basically generals/nobles would scheme to get into higher nobility,state offices where those at the top of food chain would scheme to get idnependent, backstabb me etc. Like revolt of higher nobility can revolt taking away whole bigger province, where higher nobility can influence/corrupt nobles at lower positions in his dominion. And need to put childrens into some offices/making them governors to get actual influence.

    And more estates. More complex system. :-) Right now, I can give some estates at opposite side of campaign map. Characters should prefere,require estates near their home province.
    Last edited by Daruwind; April 29, 2019 at 11:43 PM.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  19. #19
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    So i finished today achievement hunt, got everything.So with fresh pain of multiple ultimate campaigns...

    random points

    1) I really hate going mad trait. It is way to common and while I have nothing against it, just single level, easily workable around, after 100 turns majority of my characters got it. Just make it rarer or randomize effect, not every stat -1 just 1-2 stats.

    2) Governors are not getting any bonus XP. Default pace is 2 per turn for governors, 1 for generals + any battle XP but there is tech +3 additional per round, Circenn has decree for +5XP per turn for short period of time for all characters (or just for generals? Not sure)....Library or some other buildings should provide like +1 for governors per turn

    3) two points per level are way too low. I would add three and redo bonuses/penalties for general/governor line...zeal is okey. But basically what I wrote above. Some branches are usable only for general while some just for governor. Some are meh. Plus some like Siege one are very rare to use...More points - 3 per level and redo all branches so each one offer bonus and penalty for both general and governors. Like Quartermaster -> general +movement -fatique or moral? or require more supplies? ->governor -money +reinforce range? See? Something that has both positive and negative small impact...

    4) Estates. Characters desire only Agriculture ones. Why not others? Why there are no unique ones for example? All those church major settlements might provide unique church estate, like level II. Or if every province main building provides 1 noble level II estate. For harder diplomacy characters might require those unique even while they are occupied by others.

    5) Maybe more offices? Or it can be tight with those Estates. Or I would love event where character desires office even if there is somebody occupying it.

    6) Some buildings should get small rewor, sometimes one branch is too weak or hard to use.
    -Green ports way too weak
    -Generally buildings providing bonus resources seem not to work properly,so they are weak...
    .....
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  20. #20
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: How To Fix Thrones of Britannia

    I've made the following points for the Shieldwall mod a year ago, but I believe there're still valid:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Hi Guys,
    I’ve been playing the Thrones for quite a while. I think there’s an enormous potential for modding of gameplay since currently, it is very easy and not-so-historical. I mean: there’s a very nice historical map with proper names, units that are fit for the era (but the dogs, I suppose), but the gameplay is easy, un-logical, and very un-historical. The current mechanisms provide plenty of opportunities that only moders seem to be able to use (as CA is moving to another Saga game).
    Maybe a few ideas would be useful for you – I’ve gathered them below. I know the rule “you want something, you do it”, but I don’t have time for modding these days, so these are just ideas, no requests.

    · Auto-resolve should be seriously rebalanced. For the moment, at the hard or very hard difficulties, it almost always pays off to auto-resolve than to fight personally. This concerns especially the sieges. Additionally, you’re not rewarded in the traits for fighting personally.
    · Impact of the traits – most of them are so irrelevant to the game that it doesn’t make sense to pay attention. I make very few choices on the basis of the traits. Some are just irrelevant (cheaper recruitment bonuses: you recruit units so rarely that you never pay attention who is recruiting), some just go up with leveling the general up (upkeep costs), some features all characters in one form or another (eg. differentiation between upkeep bonus for spears / cavalry / missiles /all troops – they are pretty the same as the all armies are compound of different types of units; so why to bother to differentiate between them?)
    · Loyalty – there should be a probability of the characters rebelling, starting from 3. There should also be unexpected swings in loyalty – for the moment everything is so deterministic.
    · Loyalty should be scaled with the size of the realm. It should be the point of every TW game: the larger the kingdom, the more rebellions and civil wars are likely. And this is absolutely not the case in the Thrones. Quite opposite: you’re likely to have problems at the beginning but later your king and his son would get a lot of influence and the risks disappear.
    · In general, civil wars and rebellions should occur more frequently and should be scaled with the size of the kingdom. This should limit the snow-ball effect that’s very palpable now. For civil wars you’ve got leveled-up kings and estates, for rebellions – the buildings built.
    · Money – (based on the experience on very hard difficulties) currently most of the factions are rich from the beginning thanks to the large king’s purse. Upgrading the settlements is very cheap. The limiting factor for the armies is food. A strategy of expeditions and sacking far-away settlements doesn’t pay off – it doesn’t bring food or really significant money.
    · Concentration of a few armies in one place should be punished somehow. For instance, if there’re many troops in a province, the supply should run out exponentially (there’s supply in the game, just use this feature!). Or there should be a chance of rebellion. Or the campaign speed should be cut down noticeably. Or the battle values should drop. Or whatever. For now, there’s every incentive to bring 3+ armies together to conquer the lands. The AI doesn’t do it (in the Thrones it actually very rarely use more than one army), so you just go on a steamroll.
    · Technologies and buildings – higher levels of the buildings should be unlocked by the technology levels. This would make civic technologies more important. As in the other TW games, the speed of research for higher level technologies should be slower.
    · Replenishment – current high levels of replenishment make recruitment very rare: you recruit a unit just once, and even if it gets damage, it’d replenish automatically. And you can replenish in the newly conquered settlement. So I think the newly recruited units should have more strength but the replenishment should be cut down (or possibly eliminated altogether – but I don’t know how the AI would react to this).
    · Supply of the armies doesn’t matter at the moment if you employ the strategy of conquest (not raiding). You go on the offensive and take a village / settlement, then you don’t lose supply. There’re no long expeditions possible (unless you’re Sutheyar and sail somewhere), so you’re always with a full supply.
    · As mentioned, fighting the battles should be more rewarded. There should be a flood of new traits after a successful battle, especially against the odds (for the moment it’s mainly +xp and few traits).
    · There should be no penalty from switching from generalship to a governor position (for now, the -1 Loyalty penalty is neither justified (he gets a new position, doesn’t he), no good for the gameplay (a disincentive for the player to swap roles of the characters). (there’s already a mod doing it, I’m using it).
    · Older generals should be not fit for good combat and should die more easily. There may be traits adding Loyalty for the characters appointed generals at a young age (a youngster is happy to fight), while adding it to those appointed governors at the older age.
    · Ability to board ships should be restricted even more for the Anglo-Saxon factions, ie: made contingent on a certain technology, or possession of a longphort, or having a skilled general. No Anglosaxon forces were transported by ships at that time, I think.
    · Cavalry units should not be able to board on ships at all until some point of time. It was possible very marginally in this period, I can think only of Hastings, some 200 years later.
    · Fame – that part gained in battles should be visibly stated. I have no idea where my fame comes from, besides traits, buildings and technologies.
    · Estates: currently they constitute neither a limit of the size of the realm nor a solution to the problems of loyalty. As mentioned, the demand for the estates from the nobles should be related to the size of the realm. This should be an incentive to research and build noble estates: that you can keep your nobles happy while having less control over them (because the kingdom is big you cannot keep an eye all the time). So there’s a serious need for balancing.
    · Small garrisons in the villages – for the gameplay: to prevent the freshly created armies (a few units with 1/3 strength) from taking them. Now the player can create an army out of the blue and take the AI villages on the border instantly. Same goes for the AI – a roaming Viking king with 7 companions may take your villages and get strong there (there’s already a mod making it in a very good way, so for me it’s solved).

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