[2018-XXIII] [Further Action] Pikestance

[lolIsuck]

Further action thread for [2018-XXIII] [Citizen Referral] Pikestance

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

Cheers lolI

atthias, your thoughts? I'm out all day today, so if you could kick the discussion off, I'd be much obliged.

[♔atthias♔]

well I would consider a 2 weeks suspension of rank to much but a censure to light for a longstanding member saying such things

pike knows how things work here for a long time having been had all roles of the curia once during his stay there, so I find pikes behaviour of such a low level for a man of that much experience that I tend to lean towards 2 weeks suspension of rank

you?

(if you want it more indepth just ask as I have difficulty of going indepth on "paper")

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

I think that since we can't reach a definitive conclusion on his first comment (regarding keeping staff numbers low), then we had best ignore it; if we're trying too hard to find something wrong with it, then it can't be that bad. So putting that to one side, we're left with the comment 'Oh the Great Gaming Staff has spoken, get in line.. Get over yourself!' Now I ask myself, does this really warrant a two week suspension? Yes, Pike has been in the Curia for a long time, but this is his first offence in recent times. He was before us in May, and his case was dismissed. Had he received, say, a censure for that, then this could be seen as a second offence, and I would probably lean towards a suspension. But looking at this as an isolated comment, in a situation where Pike doesn't have any other strikes against his name, I think a censure is the fairest action.

[♔atthias♔]

I left that first comment out yes sorry for not mentioning that

censure it is then for I agree with your other points

[♔atthias♔]

also voted just for good measure

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

Well, censure it is then.

Right, now for the difficult part. Does Hex still want to inform Pike? If so, do you want us to draft the message, or would you guys prefer to do it? If the latter, then it would be good if we could vet the message before it goes off. Likewise, it would be good if his reply/replies can be posted back here for us.

As for the technical part, I will begin drafting up an official statement to the Curia, which I'll pre-post here for you to double check atthias. I think it is very likely that Pike will appeal this decision, as it is going to cost him his office, so we should also look over both of our threads here and make sure they are ready to go public in that event. In other words, are there any posts or details here that should remain in private quarters? I have half a mind to keep separate our discussions on the constitution and what happens after the referral, although I do think the Curia should be made aware of the issues this referral has thrown up.

Finally, given that I will be taking over administrative duties here until the office of curator is restored, will I need access to the curator usergroup and permissions to open the necessary votes (election and/or appeal) and move threads around, or will Hex do this on our behalf?

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

Moving house today, so I will be unavailable this afternoon GMT, although I will do my best to be online tonight and tomorrow. I should be able to resume normal activity by Tuesday at the latest (depends on the wifi in my new house).

Posting this here quickly:

Citizens of the Curia,

It is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that subject to Section I, Article II of the Constitution, Omnipresent-P (otherwise known as PikeStance) has received a Curial Warning and has been removed from the office of Curator, effective immediately. As per Section I, Article II#12, and after internal discussion, as the senior Censor I shall be assuming the day to day administration of the Curia, until such a time that the office of Curator is restored. All Curial decisions, except for the election of the next Curator, are henceforth postponed and any new proposals (or current proposals still being discussed) put forth in the Prothalamos and Quaestiones Perpetuae will not go to vote. Current proposals already being voted upon shall be ratified and concluded at the discretion of the Hexagonal Council.

Given that the constitutional precedents for the removal of a Curial Officer by Curial Warning are both ambiguous and inadequate in practice - and will need to be amended as soon as possible -, the Triumvirate has had to reach and stick to an interpretation we felt was the closest to the spirit of the Constitution. As the most senior member of the Triumvirate, I bear full responsibility for our interpretation and am willing to face the consequences, should the Curia feel we have mishandled the situation.

In this interim period, please direct any Curial matters or concerns to myself or atthias, and we shall deal with them to the best of our ability, or - if they are beyond our remit - forward them on to the next Curator.

Hitai de Bodemloze
On behalf of the Citizen's Triumvirate

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Draft statement to the Curia. Subject to change, pending Pike's decision to appeal.

Is this okay with you atthias (and Hex)? Is there anything you wish to add or change? If you would prefer I field any Curial PMs (if we get any), then let me know and I can change that. Although Curial decisions will be postponed, we may still receive new referrals etc, which we can still postpone, and we have to keep an official avenue of communication open. In some respects, it may be easier if only one of us (or a nominated intermediary from Hex) field any potential referrals, so that both of us don't have to recuse ourselves on the grounds of knowing the referrer's identity.

Also to Hex, is this line: 'Current proposals already being voted upon shall be ratified and concluded at the discretion of the Hexagonal Council' acceptable for you? I figure if there are awards or citizenship to be handed out, then the absence of a Curator need not prohibit you guys from acting on any legitimately passed proposal. But if you would prefer to wait, then we can postpone passed votes too.

[Tango12345]

I can do the necessary regarding fielding referrals.

Its the Hexagon Council. I, for one, am not 6-sided . There is no need to postpone passed/in progress votes.

Question that needs answering before anything goes further-does Pike stay in office whilst he appeals (if he appeals)?

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

I can do the necessary regarding fielding referrals.

Its the Hexagon Council. I, for one, am not 6-sided . There is no need to postpone passed/in progress votes.

Wonderful, thank you Tango. I will make the necessary changes tomorrow (been a busy day for me and I need some shut eye, but I do have wifi, thankfully).

Question that needs answering before anything goes further-does Pike stay in office whilst he appeals (if he appeals)?

No, at least not by how I understand the Constitution ('Any Curial Officer receiving a Moderation or Curial warning is immediately removed from office'). If our decision is overturned, then he can be reinstated as Curator, but having received a warning, he must be removed from office. Although the Constitution is generally hazy on appeals, I'll cite the recent case with Soul, whereby his citizenship was stripped first, and then he appealed the decision as a regular user. So it seems that the actions of the Triumvirate take effect before the appeal process begins; it just so happens that this particular action comes with the corollary of Pike's losing office.

[♔atthias♔]

the text you posted is okay hitai I cannot find anything I feel the need to change

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

Citizens of the Curia,

It is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that subject to Section I, Article II of the Constitution, PikeStance has received a Curial Warning and has been removed from the office of Curator, effective immediately. He has elected to appeal our decision, and the appeal process will begin shortly. In the interim, as per Section I, Article II#12, and after internal discussion, as the senior Censor I shall be assuming the day to day administration of the Curia, until such a time that the office of Curator is restored. All Curial decisions, except for the election of the next Curator (dependant on the outcome of the appeal), are henceforth postponed and any new proposals (or current proposals still being discussed) put forth in the Prothalamos and Quaestiones Perpetuae will not go to vote. Current proposals already being voted upon shall be ratified and concluded at the discretion of the Hexagon Council.

Given that the constitutional precedents for the removal of a Curial Officer by Curial Warning are both ambiguous and inadequate in practice - and will need to be amended as soon as possible -, the Triumvirate has had to reach and stick to an interpretation we felt was the closest to the spirit of the Constitution. As the most senior member of the Triumvirate, I bear full responsibility for our interpretation and am willing to face the consequences, should the Curia feel we have mishandled the situation.

In this interim period, please direct any Curial matters or concerns to myself or atthias, and we shall deal with them to the best of our ability, or - if they are beyond our remit - forward them on to the next Curator. With specific regard to referrals, please message Tango12345, who has agreed to act as an impartial intermediary in this period. Referrals will then be passed on to the Triumvirate through him, as to preserve the referrer's anonymity.

On behalf of the Citizen's Triumvirate,
Hitai de Bodemloze

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Any answers or thoughts regarding my post #7, before we proceed?

[lolIsuck]

That seems fine to me.