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Thread: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

  1. #1

    Default Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    This is the same immersion breaking thing that killed Napoleon for me Dont fall into this trap DEI devs.

  2. #2
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    CA added immortal generals to some campaigns and I believie it is hardcoded.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Actually if you think about it in a lot of campaigns it is actually more immersive.

    Just because a general lost a battle didn't mean he died. Look how many times Pompeii lost the battle and had to retreat. Or how Hannibal lost the battle in Italy and was able to go back to Africa to command again.

    When it comes to major historical characters in no specific sub campaigns, we will absolutely be making use of the trait where they cannot die in battle. As it far more represents the historical reality of them winning and losing battles .

    It is actually very immersion breaking to see certain generals died immediately at the start of the campaign because of the incompetent AI.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    When it comes to major historical characters in no specific sub campaigns, we will absolutely be making use of the trait where they cannot die in battle.
    I hope you meant "IN specific sub campaigns".

    Because, in my opinion (who nobody asked for, yes), having that traits on generals in the Grand Campaign would be just retarded.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Speech to text. Yes I meant in. And it is always only the most major characters. For example Caesar in Caesar in Gaul, but none of his retinue.

    These are supposed to more closely follow history than the grand Campaign which basically goes off the rails as soon as you start it. There be no point in trying to have Immortal Generals in that and I wouldn't want it there either.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Its not hardcoded, at least I don't think it is - there is an effect on their special traits that does it. But its only for a few select DLC campaign characters.

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  7. #7
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Ahh I thought it is hardcoded due to game crashing when some characters die in ED campaign or was that one solved?
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Well, its possible it is hardcoded because I have never tested removing that effect. And yes there were crash issues with ED characters involving that trait.

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  9. #9
    Yerevan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    Actually if you think about it in a lot of campaigns it is actually more immersive.

    Just because a general lost a battle didn't mean he died. Look how many times Pompeii lost the battle and had to retreat. Or how Hannibal lost the battle in Italy and was able to go back to Africa to command again.

    When it comes to major historical characters in no specific sub campaigns, we will absolutely be making use of the trait where they cannot die in battle. As it far more represents the historical reality of them winning and losing battles .

    It is actually very immersion breaking to see certain generals died immediately at the start of the campaign because of the incompetent AI.
    I agree. I remember how frustrating it could be sometimes in S2TW to see great Daimyos die in fisrt battle, because of auto resolve battles or to see them running to be impaled on your ashigaru first line.

    And it's great to have life time rivals. To have a Nemesis. To see your enemy evolve. Well, as long as they're not like really immortal.

    True that it could be weird in the grand campaign, but in the same time I remember a title where generals that were falling in battle would be just hurt and come back after a while. It wasn't systematic though, sometimes they would really die. Now I'm not sure it was in a TW game actually.
    Last edited by Yerevan; September 18, 2018 at 03:36 PM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    I posted a save game in the bug thread... but now reading this I wonder if Aurellan is causing the crash as he is defeated in battle(auto resolve)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Immortal generals are quite nice and add immersion in certain campaigns, but CA has been a bit absentminded when adding them. For example in Augustus campaign Romans like Antonius are immortal, but Parthians don't have their own immortal leader. This makes multiplayer a bit unbalanced with some factions for sure. I think I might have contemplated this issue before.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    If it's not hardcoded, would it be possible to port the Attila system from ATW? AFAIK he can 'die' in battle but then actually escapes the first time he is 'killed', then is wounded, then escapes again and then finally he is killed.

    That might be a better solution for the player's generals, as otherwise a truly immortal general could potentially be exploited by sending him into battle against ridiculous odds knowing he will never actually die.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    The general can still fall on the battlefield. He just gets wounded rather than dying.

    So it's not like you have an immortal Cavalry unit running around on the battlefield.

    They can also still die of a g e.

    In regards to multiplayer, we have not and will not balance to mod around multiplayer. We just make sure it is compatible.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    The general can still fall on the battlefield. He just gets wounded rather than dying.

    So it's not like you have an immortal Cavalry unit running around on the battlefield.

    They can also still die of a g e.

    In regards to multiplayer, we have not and will not balance to mod around multiplayer. We just make sure it is compatible.
    It can still be exploited by the player if it is unlimited wounds. You can put the immortal general in settlements about to fall and know you won't lose him, charge him into enemy spears to try and turn a losing battle without worrying about him dying for good, and generally exploit the fact he can never die for good in battle.

    Maybe just me, but I'd say there should still be the potential for historical figures to die if you push their luck too far. Otherwise it does give the player the potential to exploit it.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    A player dedicated to exploiting things as always going to find something to exploit. We can't cover every single situation that someone is going to exploit, and honestly we shouldn't.

    If you want to play the game like that, go ahead, but the vast majority do not so it is not a concern to us.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    A player dedicated to exploiting things as always going to find something to exploit. We can't cover every single situation that someone is going to exploit, and honestly we shouldn't.

    If you want to play the game like that, go ahead, but the vast majority do not so it is not a concern to us.
    That's fair enough, I don't use exploits personally and can appreciate devs not wanting to spend time trying to hunt down things people can avoid.

    I guess I still think it would be more immersive to know your general has a chance of dying eventually. Being truly immortal would encourage you to push your luck, and take some of the tension out of playing a campaign like CiG if there is no chance Caesar will ever die.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Certain generals cant die? WTF?

    It would also help if We couldn't instantly teleport generals around the map.

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