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Thread: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

  1. #1

    Default Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    So playing as Rome, I usually form a first line of hastati with fire at will enabled. I form them but when they engage the enemy, they start to come closer to them every time they throw their javelins, resulting in a completely mess of formation, they don't hold the line and in some places is more advanced than in others. How does that happen? It didn't happen to me in any other mod, it's a regular feature? Also, enabling guard mode doesn't make any difference.

  2. #2
    isa0005's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    As far as Iím aware this is a unique feature in EBII that attempts to emulate the run up that is required to throw a javelin with any impactful force. As far as I know its not something that can be disabled, so youíre either going to have to get used to it or change your use of certain units and/or your tactics.

    I quite like this feature, especially because it does throw my army into disarray a little, forcing me to think on the fly. The javelin or pilla are a very useful part of any Roman army so its not something I personally would want to give up because my formations get all messed up hehe. War and especially battles of this era, are particularly messy. Iím not a member of the EB II team, but I can say with complete confidence that EBII tries to be as historically accurate and realistic as is possible within the MTWII engine. With this in mind, this feature and indeed many others try to reflect this.

    I know its not the answer you were hoping for, but I hope Iíve helped in some small way
    Cheers,
    isa0005

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by isa0005 View Post
    As far as I’m aware this is a unique feature in EBII that attempts to emulate the run up that is required to throw a javelin with any impactful force. As far as I know its not something that can be disabled, so you’re either going to have to get used to it or change your use of certain units and/or your tactics.

    I quite like this feature, especially because it does throw my army into disarray a little, forcing me to think on the fly. The javelin or pilla are a very useful part of any Roman army so its not something I personally would want to give up because my formations get all messed up hehe. War and especially battles of this era, are particularly messy. I’m not a member of the EB II team, but I can say with complete confidence that EBII tries to be as historically accurate and realistic as is possible within the MTWII engine. With this in mind, this feature and indeed many others try to reflect this.

    I know its not the answer you were hoping for, but I hope I’ve helped in some small way
    Cheers,
    isa0005
    Thank you so much! I realized that the animation is great, but didn't know if it was something wrong with my configuration or a feature of the mod. This guys really thought everything!

  4. #4
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    I asked about that feature some time ago and they replied the same, that is an element specific to EBII and they won't disable it. However, I must add that, with the inclusion of the prec on the next version, the fire at will mode will be disabled for javelin wielding infantry.

  5. #5
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Yes, as mentioned, it's the specific animation we chose to use for javelin-throwing, and no we're not going to change it.

    There is another one where they basically throw from the shoulder without running up, but it's ridiculously unrealistic given the Olympic-grade distances our units can throw.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Is it a related phenomenon that lately, playing on huge unit size, I have noticed that many units engage with only a few soldiers taking up the fight while the great majority stand back? That happens in situations in which there would be plenty of room to engage on a wide front.

    Another thing that I have only started to experience recently is that cavalry units attempt to move in a single file. Let's say there is a spearman unit approaching my cavalry and I tell the cav to quickly move away to a distant point on the map. The bulk of the unit actually stands still while one cavalryman at a time starts moving towards the destination. Then eventually the enemy spearmen reach my unit and begin to butcher them while a long line is sluggishly moving where all of them should have been a long time ago? I have seen cavalry spread out over an area longer than city walls in that single file of hardly moving individual fighters. That makes battles next to impossible to conduct effectively.

    I tried to take a screenshot of that happening but I cannot figure out where the image files go.

  7. #7
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Don't worry about the screenshot, I think we have all seen that behaviour happening in the game. About the infantry, I think that mostly happens with javelin hielding infantry but with the inclusion of the prec on those units in 2.35, that behaviour you wrote about will no longer happen (please correct me if I'm wrong guys)
    About the cavalry, it's a normal problem, I don't think it won't change.

  8. #8
    Foederatus
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    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    About the cav thing, I experienced it too. This is when you try to move your units far away or make them do a curt manoeuver, it changes their formation to a column. But I always tought it was intended and I have the habit to hold right click and manually redo the formation when moving isolated units.
    Cause, IIRC, it applies to all units, not only cav, as long as it is not a grouped move.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by gangster19 View Post
    So playing as Rome, I usually form a first line of hastati with fire at will enabled. I form them but when they engage the enemy, they start to come closer to them every time they throw their javelins, resulting in a completely mess of formation, they don't hold the line and in some places is more advanced than in others. How does that happen? It didn't happen to me in any other mod, it's a regular feature? Also, enabling guard mode doesn't make any difference.
    You could disable fire at will <A> so that they will not fire unless you command them to, thus maintaining their formation, but that might rob you of the benefits of powerful Roman pila. When the enemy comes into range you could also try manually withdrawing after a volley, Romans were a lot lighter than most give them credit for.

    In regards to the uneven line, automatic skirmishing is a bit weird. If you formed your soldiers in one continuous line then they may have been getting in each other's way. Historically the Roman Quincunx formation is often depicted like a checkerboard, with gaps between units in each line.

    An uneven line won't be a huge deal anyway unless you're on the receiving end of a cavalry charge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    I tried to take a screenshot of that happening but I cannot figure out where the image files go.
    If you have M2TW on Steam, then you can click on Medieval 2 in your library, there should be a section called Screenshots. Click on View Screenshot Library, on the Screenshot Uploader there should be a button near the bottom called Show On Disk. This should take you directly to the right directory.

    If not, then you can open Paint, use Print Screen for a screenshot, and Ctrl + V it to paint. Then you can save and decide where the picture goes.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    About the infantry, I think that mostly happens with javelin hielding infantry but with the inclusion of the prec on those units in 2.35, that behaviour you wrote about will no longer happen (please correct me if I'm wrong guys).
    Nothing to correct - prec will fix this behaviour. The javelin infantry will throw from extreme range, build up speed in their charge and hit the enemy formation as a group. It's night-and-day in both appearance and effect.
    EBII Council

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    About the infantry, I think that mostly happens with javelin hielding infantry but with the inclusion of the prec on those units in 2.35, that behaviour you wrote about will no longer happen (please correct me if I'm wrong guys)
    About the cavalry, it's a normal problem, I don't think it won't change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Domaje View Post
    About the cav thing, I experienced it too. This is when you try to move your units far away or make them do a curt manoeuver, it changes their formation to a column. But I always tought it was intended and I have the habit to hold right click and manually redo the formation when moving isolated units.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    Nothing to correct - prec will fix this behaviour. The javelin infantry will throw from extreme range, build up speed in their charge and hit the enemy formation as a group. It's night-and-day in both appearance and effect.
    Thank you guys for your support. I am going to see if organizing the units into a formation regularly instead of clicking them around will help.

    This one has probably been answered elsewhere on the forum, but I am going to ask none the less. Can I upgrade my ongoing campaign from 2.3 to 2.35? If not, I am rather willing to go through any troubles with 2.3 instead of starting anew with all hard-earned progress gone. Life is short.

    Quote Originally Posted by BailianSteel View Post
    If you have M2TW on Steam, then you can click on Medieval 2 in your library, there should be a section called Screenshots. Click on View Screenshot Library, on the Screenshot Uploader there should be a button near the bottom called Show On Disk. This should take you directly to the right directory.

    If not, then you can open Paint, use Print Screen for a screenshot, and Ctrl + V it to paint. Then you can save and decide where the picture goes.
    Unfortunately, there is nothing like that in my Steam client. Do you mean that hitting print screen will save a single screenshot in the clipboard, and then I have to exit the game after the battle and copy paste that single image to an image editor (such as paint)?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    No you can't update an ongoing campaign. Even a small data-type change won't take effect (like if you wanted to add prec to a single unit). Some things (probably just graphics) can be altered, like changing portraits and such.
    EBII Council

  13. #13
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    If you want to take screenshots you can download the Fraps program for free and use it.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Yeah, that sounds right. As for the Steam screenshots, the path to the directory is C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\INSERTUSERNUMHERE\760\remote\4700\screenshots

    I find that the clipboard method is easier on performance than the F12 method, the latter can create lag.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    If you want to take screenshots you can download the Fraps program for free and use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by BailianSteel View Post
    As for the Steam screenshots, the path to the directory is C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\INSERTUSERNUMHERE\760\remote\4700\screenshots

    I find that the clipboard method is easier on performance than the F12 method, the latter can create lag.
    Damn. I had been using the print screen button and then looking for the image. Even though I should know that it only copies the image to random access memory. F12 worked just fine and I now get the folders that Bailian pointed out.

    "In general terms, how stupid do you feel at the moment, sir?"
    - "I have to admit that I feel stupid to no small degree."

    The Fraps software recommended by Lusitanio seems interesting at the first glance. I have never done video capturing of gameplay before, but this could be the beginning of something "beautiful".

  16. #16

    Default Re: Why do my soldiers break their formation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    Damn. I had been using the print screen button and then looking for the image. Even though I should know that it only copies the image to random access memory. F12 worked just fine and I now get the folders that Bailian pointed out.

    "In general terms, how stupid do you feel at the moment, sir?"
    - "I have to admit that I feel stupid to no small degree."
    Nah, you got the hang of it pretty quickly. Tech of all sorts like to hide a lot of options behind a lot of busy work, without the Show On Disk button I wouldn't bother with Steam Screenshots.

    I can vouch for recording software being pretty fun, great for making .gifs for upvote farming.

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