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Thread: Game Balance

  1. #1

    Default Game Balance

    How will the combat and economic balance of the game look? What will the lethalities of weapons be? What will be the upkeep of certain units?

  2. #2
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    I'd like to repeat this question - this time perhaps to all players.

    What is very visible once you start a game, it's a huge number of units already on the map (as compared to the mods I'm familiar with in the M2TW engine, the RTW without limits on recruitment scored always badly). You start as Axum (iirc), and you get like 5 full-stacks? And plenty of money. You start as Rome, and you've got 200k income. This is a promis of stack-spam greater than in the EBI. Given no limit on recruitmet other than money, it is also a promise of never-ending battles. What do the player think?
    (I admit being more interested in the gameplay, the lack of pics for the buildings from Joar doesn't bother me so much).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I'd like to repeat this question - this time perhaps to all players.

    What is very visible once you start a game, it's a huge number of units already on the map (as compared to the mods I'm familiar with in the M2TW engine, the RTW without limits on recruitment scored always badly). You start as Axum (iirc), and you get like 5 full-stacks? And plenty of money. You start as Rome, and you've got 200k income. This is a promis of stack-spam greater than in the EBI. Given no limit on recruitmet other than money, it is also a promise of never-ending battles. What do the player think?
    (I admit being more interested in the gameplay, the lack of pics for the buildings from Joar doesn't bother me so much).
    Campaign start is very frantic. Even small factions get lots of stacks to give them a chance to actually achieve something, I think. But you will go bankrupt in a matter of very few turns because of army upkeep, it's not intended to let small factions have 10 stacks indefinitely. You have to use your starting money to build some infrastructure and your starting armies well, before the upkeep burden sinks you down.


  4. #4
    Antonius's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    TBH I am not a big fan of this overabundance of stacks and this battle-spam that it causes. (Also because they are of course completely unaffordable and the finances of your faction are ruined.)
    This is probably just a preference, as I enjoy the strategy part and empire managemnt much more than the battles...
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    ~Alfred Adler

  5. #5
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonius View Post
    TBH I am not a big fan of this overabundance of stacks and this battle-spam that it causes. (Also because they are of course completely unaffordable and the finances of your faction are ruined.)
    This is probably just a preference, as I enjoy the strategy part and empire management much more than the battles...
    I can understand, that for some people, large start up armies will not be preferred, but one has to take into account that this is a time of crisis with invasions on all fronts and an economy that will quickly go south. Having a ready army and not being able to recruit more after the first couple of moves until the economy improves means the player has to handle his army well until things improve. While the Republic and early Principate were periods of expansion and the mid Principate one of consolidation, the late Empire is one of slow decline and under incesant attack from within and without. The IB mods represent this situation, hence the more frenetic starts to our campaigns. This mod, much like IB:SAI and IB:RR is not for the faint hearted.
    Last edited by julianus heraclius; August 06, 2020 at 06:47 PM.

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  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan 666 View Post
    Campaign start is very frantic. Even small factions get lots of stacks to give them a chance to actually achieve something, I think. But you will go bankrupt in a matter of very few turns because of army upkeep, it's not intended to let small factions have 10 stacks indefinitely. You have to use your starting money to build some infrastructure and your starting armies well, before the upkeep burden sinks you down.
    Given to features:
    1. no explicit manpower limit (as it is in Med2 engine, and also in R2TW-DeI system), just the number of inhabitants of the settlments limit it.
    2. units are rather small as compared to the size of the settlements (recruitment of a new one doesn't deplete the inhabitant number muc).
    3. the main expenditure is the upkeep of the existing armies.
    4. threats (enemy armies) already exist on the map.
    The resulting strategy is:
    - don't stay and wait (it'll drain your finances, even if you've got initial reserves), but instantly rush anything in the neighbourhood;
    - go to the battles, don't pay much attention to your losses - you can recruit any number of troops you want after losing the existing ones.
    - take as many other settlements as possible, destroy as many enemy troops as possible
    - after the initial rush, you'll be down to the affordable numbers of your troops, but what you'd conquered, is yours.
    And then another stage of the game begins: you take into account finances, look for the fronts etc. Losses are still not the most pressing considerations unless your cities run out of manpower (again, unlikely).

  7. #7

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonius View Post
    TBH I am not a big fan of this overabundance of stacks and this battle-spam that it causes. (Also because they are of course completely unaffordable and the finances of your faction are ruined.)
    This is probably just a preference, as I enjoy the strategy part and empire managemnt much more than the battles...
    Sounds like an issue inherited from Ruina Romae. I remember the Alemanni starting with something like 3 or 4 full stacks in the field with a full-stack garrison in their settlement.
    ORANGE MAN BAD

  8. #8

    Default Re: Game Balance

    firstly, thanks for release Restitvtor Orbis.

    but i have a question for you.

    why roman legionary units are 143?(diocletian legionaries are 163) unlike sassanids 243 infantries.

    this is history acurrate? or for game balance?
    Last edited by servent9; August 10, 2020 at 03:39 AM.

  9. #9
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by servent9 View Post
    firstly, thanks for release Restitvtor Orbis.

    but i have a question for you.

    why roman legionary units are 143?(diocletian legionaries are 163) unless sassanids 243 infantries.

    this is history acurrate? or for game balance?
    The 143 number are the size of cohorts pre-diocletian reforms. It has been suggested that Diocletian increased the size of cohorts from 480-500 to 550-600.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    The 143 number are the size of cohorts pre-diocletian reforms. It has been suggested that Diocletian increased the size of cohorts from 480-500 to 550-600.
    ah thanks for reply!

    but i feel like roman cohort as manipule at this size.

    how about change 143 cohort as 163 men and increase diocletian legionaries as 188 or 183?

    or change 143 to 183 and change diocletian to 200?

    anyway thanks for your hard work!
    Last edited by servent9; August 10, 2020 at 03:51 AM.

  11. #11
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by servent9 View Post
    ah thanks for reply!

    but i feel like roman cohort as manipule at this size.

    how about change 143 cohort as 163 men and increase diocletian legionaries as 188 or 183?

    or change 143 to 183 and change diocletian to 200?

    anyway thanks for your hard work!
    The changes would not be realistic. Of course, you are free to change them yourself if you want.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    The changes would not be realistic. Of course, you are free to change them yourself if you want.
    ok it's fine.

    i can adapt these units size.

    thanks

  13. #13

    Default Re: Game Balance

    i think palmyrene clibinarii is too strong. they kill thousands[3000~4000?]men at the gate.

    they're like walking phalanx :O

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  14. #14
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by L. D. Aurelianus Augustus View Post
    i think palmyrene clibinarii is too strong. they kill thousands[3000~4000?]men at the gate.

    they're like walking phalanx :O

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    Palmyran Clibinarii are no more powerful that Sassanid Clibinarii, and remember they are the most heavily armed cavalry going. Treat them with respect. best to use slingers and arcubalistarii to take them out.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    Palmyran Clibinarii are no more powerful that Sassanid Clibinarii, and remember they are the most heavily armed cavalry going. Treat them with respect. best to use slingers and arcubalistarii to take them out.
    of course i know that too.

    just rome 1 siege battle has some funny stuff like this.

    i can them defeat more easily in the field battle.

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