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Thread: Game Balance

  1. #1

    Default Game Balance

    How will the combat and economic balance of the game look? What will the lethalities of weapons be? What will be the upkeep of certain units?

  2. #2
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    I'd like to repeat this question - this time perhaps to all players.

    What is very visible once you start a game, it's a huge number of units already on the map (as compared to the mods I'm familiar with in the M2TW engine, the RTW without limits on recruitment scored always badly). You start as Axum (iirc), and you get like 5 full-stacks? And plenty of money. You start as Rome, and you've got 200k income. This is a promis of stack-spam greater than in the EBI. Given no limit on recruitmet other than money, it is also a promise of never-ending battles. What do the player think?
    (I admit being more interested in the gameplay, the lack of pics for the buildings from Joar doesn't bother me so much).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I'd like to repeat this question - this time perhaps to all players.

    What is very visible once you start a game, it's a huge number of units already on the map (as compared to the mods I'm familiar with in the M2TW engine, the RTW without limits on recruitment scored always badly). You start as Axum (iirc), and you get like 5 full-stacks? And plenty of money. You start as Rome, and you've got 200k income. This is a promis of stack-spam greater than in the EBI. Given no limit on recruitmet other than money, it is also a promise of never-ending battles. What do the player think?
    (I admit being more interested in the gameplay, the lack of pics for the buildings from Joar doesn't bother me so much).
    Campaign start is very frantic. Even small factions get lots of stacks to give them a chance to actually achieve something, I think. But you will go bankrupt in a matter of very few turns because of army upkeep, it's not intended to let small factions have 10 stacks indefinitely. You have to use your starting money to build some infrastructure and your starting armies well, before the upkeep burden sinks you down.


  4. #4
    Antonius's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    TBH I am not a big fan of this overabundance of stacks and this battle-spam that it causes. (Also because they are of course completely unaffordable and the finances of your faction are ruined.)
    This is probably just a preference, as I enjoy the strategy part and empire managemnt much more than the battles...
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  5. #5
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonius View Post
    TBH I am not a big fan of this overabundance of stacks and this battle-spam that it causes. (Also because they are of course completely unaffordable and the finances of your faction are ruined.)
    This is probably just a preference, as I enjoy the strategy part and empire management much more than the battles...
    I can understand, that for some people, large start up armies will not be preferred, but one has to take into account that this is a time of crisis with invasions on all fronts and an economy that will quickly go south. Having a ready army and not being able to recruit more after the first couple of moves until the economy improves means the player has to handle his army well until things improve. While the Republic and early Principate were periods of expansion and the mid Principate one of consolidation, the late Empire is one of slow decline and under incesant attack from within and without. The IB mods represent this situation, hence the more frenetic starts to our campaigns. This mod, much like IB:SAI and IB:RR is not for the faint hearted.
    Last edited by julianus heraclius; August 06, 2020 at 06:47 PM.

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  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan 666 View Post
    Campaign start is very frantic. Even small factions get lots of stacks to give them a chance to actually achieve something, I think. But you will go bankrupt in a matter of very few turns because of army upkeep, it's not intended to let small factions have 10 stacks indefinitely. You have to use your starting money to build some infrastructure and your starting armies well, before the upkeep burden sinks you down.
    Given to features:
    1. no explicit manpower limit (as it is in Med2 engine, and also in R2TW-DeI system), just the number of inhabitants of the settlments limit it.
    2. units are rather small as compared to the size of the settlements (recruitment of a new one doesn't deplete the inhabitant number muc).
    3. the main expenditure is the upkeep of the existing armies.
    4. threats (enemy armies) already exist on the map.
    The resulting strategy is:
    - don't stay and wait (it'll drain your finances, even if you've got initial reserves), but instantly rush anything in the neighbourhood;
    - go to the battles, don't pay much attention to your losses - you can recruit any number of troops you want after losing the existing ones.
    - take as many other settlements as possible, destroy as many enemy troops as possible
    - after the initial rush, you'll be down to the affordable numbers of your troops, but what you'd conquered, is yours.
    And then another stage of the game begins: you take into account finances, look for the fronts etc. Losses are still not the most pressing considerations unless your cities run out of manpower (again, unlikely).

  7. #7

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonius View Post
    TBH I am not a big fan of this overabundance of stacks and this battle-spam that it causes. (Also because they are of course completely unaffordable and the finances of your faction are ruined.)
    This is probably just a preference, as I enjoy the strategy part and empire managemnt much more than the battles...
    Sounds like an issue inherited from Ruina Romae. I remember the Alemanni starting with something like 3 or 4 full stacks in the field with a full-stack garrison in their settlement.
    FREE THE NIPPLE!!!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Game Balance

    firstly, thanks for release Restitvtor Orbis.

    but i have a question for you.

    why roman legionary units are 143?(diocletian legionaries are 163) unlike sassanids 243 infantries.

    this is history acurrate? or for game balance?
    Last edited by servent9; August 10, 2020 at 03:39 AM.

  9. #9
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by servent9 View Post
    firstly, thanks for release Restitvtor Orbis.

    but i have a question for you.

    why roman legionary units are 143?(diocletian legionaries are 163) unless sassanids 243 infantries.

    this is history acurrate? or for game balance?
    The 143 number are the size of cohorts pre-diocletian reforms. It has been suggested that Diocletian increased the size of cohorts from 480-500 to 550-600.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    The 143 number are the size of cohorts pre-diocletian reforms. It has been suggested that Diocletian increased the size of cohorts from 480-500 to 550-600.
    ah thanks for reply!

    but i feel like roman cohort as manipule at this size.

    how about change 143 cohort as 163 men and increase diocletian legionaries as 188 or 183?

    or change 143 to 183 and change diocletian to 200?

    anyway thanks for your hard work!
    Last edited by servent9; August 10, 2020 at 03:51 AM.

  11. #11
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by servent9 View Post
    ah thanks for reply!

    but i feel like roman cohort as manipule at this size.

    how about change 143 cohort as 163 men and increase diocletian legionaries as 188 or 183?

    or change 143 to 183 and change diocletian to 200?

    anyway thanks for your hard work!
    The changes would not be realistic. Of course, you are free to change them yourself if you want.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    The changes would not be realistic. Of course, you are free to change them yourself if you want.
    ok it's fine.

    i can adapt these units size.

    thanks

  13. #13

    Default Re: Game Balance

    i think palmyrene clibinarii is too strong. they kill thousands[3000~4000?]men at the gate.

    they're like walking phalanx :O

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  14. #14
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by L. D. Aurelianus Augustus View Post
    i think palmyrene clibinarii is too strong. they kill thousands[3000~4000?]men at the gate.

    they're like walking phalanx :O

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    Palmyran Clibinarii are no more powerful that Sassanid Clibinarii, and remember they are the most heavily armed cavalry going. Treat them with respect. best to use slingers and arcubalistarii to take them out.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    Palmyran Clibinarii are no more powerful that Sassanid Clibinarii, and remember they are the most heavily armed cavalry going. Treat them with respect. best to use slingers and arcubalistarii to take them out.
    of course i know that too.

    just rome 1 siege battle has some funny stuff like this.

    i can them defeat more easily in the field battle.

  16. #16
    tungri_centurio's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    imho the rebel suebi and marcomanni stacks should be scripted to attack the romans.in my camapign they destroyed the allemani stacks and half of the gruthingi stack. keeping it verry easy for me as a roman player to focus on the goths and lazyges on the danuba border.
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    also the gallic empire not recruited any good roman troops other then vigiles and med cav making them easy to conquer.

    on the campaign map its to easy to make s of money. i like having good amounts of cash(not like the EB mods) to invest in my cities but having 100000+ in the bank after building in all cities and recruiting even more elite armies.
    dunno if its possible to make the player his units double in upkeep?
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. -Marcus Aurelius

  17. #17
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    imho the rebel suebi and marcomanni stacks should be scripted to attack the romans.in my camapign they destroyed the allemani stacks and half of the gruthingi stack. keeping it very easy for me as a roman player to focus on the goths and lazyges on the danuba border.
    While I understand this, the intentions of adding the rebel suebi and marcomanni stacks was to make the job of the germanic factions a bit harder, especially if you are playing as either the franks, alemanni

    also the gallic empire not recruited any good roman troops other then vigiles and med cav making them easy to conquer.
    The Gallic Empire have a number of recruitment cities along the Rhine and in Britain. The problem lies with the RTW-BI.exe to be honest.

    on the campaign map its to easy to make s of money. i like having good amounts of cash(not like the EB mods) to invest in my cities but having 100000+ in the bank after building in all cities and recruiting even more elite armies. dunno if its possible to make the player his units double in upkeep?
    It probably depends which level of campaign you are playing. I have found playing on the medium/hard campaign level seems to reduce expenditure quite a lot. I have included cash penalties in the script to try and reduce the limit to around 200,000 denarii as a total, but could consider reducing this even further. Don't forget, that the roman and sassanid empires start with large empires allowing them to acquire a much larger tax base than other factions.

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  18. #18
    tungri_centurio's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    The Gallic Empire have a number of recruitment cities along the Rhine and in Britain. The problem lies with the RTW-BI.exe to be honest.
    do they start with full roman legions? didn't come across a full cav army like auralian his army. i like the roma surrectum way how that mod deals with the poor AI recruitment. if you take settlement x it spawns decent armies in the region as a garrison script.

    anyway,now that i got the mod running ok ,i really like it. playing h/h campaign, i don't mind the amount of battles. played alot of RS3 with 0turn recruitment.
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. -Marcus Aurelius

  19. #19
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by tungri_centurio View Post
    do they start with full roman legions? didn't come across a full cav army like auralian his army. i like the roma surrectum way how that mod deals with the poor AI recruitment. if you take settlement x it spawns decent armies in the region as a garrison script.

    anyway,now that i got the mod running ok ,i really like it. playing h/h campaign, i don't mind the amount of battles. played alot of RS3 with 0turn recruitment.
    The Gallic Empire doesn't start with standing armies like the Roman Empire, but do have large garrisons along the Rhine and in Britain. They don't have full cavalry stacks like Aurelian. AI reinforcements are scripted for all roman factions but not always guaranteed. I'm glad you are enjoying the mod. It is always hard to please everybody but if you have got it working as you like it then good.

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  20. #20
    tungri_centurio's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Game Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by julianus heraclius View Post
    The Gallic Empire doesn't start with standing armies like the Roman Empire, but do have large garrisons along the Rhine and in Britain. They don't have full cavalry stacks like Aurelian. AI reinforcements are scripted for all roman factions but not always guaranteed. I'm glad you are enjoying the mod. It is always hard to please everybody but if you have got it working as you like it then good.
    maybe its a good idea to give them some standing armies in hispania and gaul after you take x amount of settlements from them?
    same for palmyrain empire, iff player takes anatolia/egypt palmyra spawns 2/3 full legions near antioch?

    dunno if thats historical but the AI needs all the help it can get to make it harder for the player.
    i noticed that the AI mostly recruits the low tier units that build within 1/2 turns, dunno whats possible there to make them recruit high tier units too.

    are there just a limited amount of cities that can grow to huge settlements? my pop growth is getting out off control

    thank god for modders like you keep this game alive,keep up the good work
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. -Marcus Aurelius

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