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Thread: Universal flu vaccine

  1. #1
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Universal flu vaccine

    On the way,
    the M-001 vaccine is expected to protect against existing as well as future seasonal and pandemic virus strains. Two Doses of Multimeric-001 (M-001) Followed by Influenza Vaccine ...
    Phase II trial.

    BiondVax Begins NIH-Sponsored Phase 2 Clinical Trial of its

    As previously announced, a pivotal clinical efficacy Phase 3 trial is planned in Europe later this year. Co-funded by the European Union’s European Investment Bank (EIB), the trial will enroll 9,630 participants aged 50 years and older across four to six countries over a period of two flu seasons.
    Good news.
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Why do I see this news as the background montage to a zombie movie opening credits roll?

    Anyway very welcome. I'm interested as to how they can overcome the viral mutability, but I'm probably too ignorant and stupid to understand an explanation.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Why do I see this news as the background montage to a zombie movie opening credits roll?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm interested as to how they can overcome the viral mutability
    The phase 2Ib is ongoing and the phase 3 is planned in Europe later this year.
    But this is the idea: the M-001 contains conserved, and common linear influenza epitopes that activate both cellular and humoral arms of the immune system against a wide variety of influenza A and B strains.
    The M-001 is a single recombinant protein containing 9 B- and T-cell conserved epitopes (epitopes that do not undergo antigenic change) from the HA, nucleoprotein, and matrix 1 proteins of both the influenza A and B virus strains, inducing both humoral and cellular immunity.
    Full article,
    Evaluating the immunogenicity and safety of a BiondVax-developed

    The corporate presentation, slides, BiondVax Company Presentation

    --
    It's not a new idea- let's go back to 2014 - Epitope-based approaches to a universal influenza vaccine. - NCBI
    Last edited by Ludicus; August 28, 2018 at 12:31 PM.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Looks to me like a bunch of globalist bankers funding a Zionist attempt to genocide Orthomyxoviridae.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Looks to me like a bunch of globalist bankers funding a Zionist attempt to genocide Orthomyxoviridae.
    Now, that's what I call a meritorious Zionist enterprise.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Looks to me like a bunch of globalist bankers funding a Zionist attempt to genocide Orthomyxoviridae.
    They can't keep getting away with it!

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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    This is good to hear, but it's sad to me how they can develop this yet still have no norovirus vaccine yet. It's frustrating trying to get through the year avoiding it. It's symptoms are far worse than influenza (to me) and it's considerably more contagious and hardy than influenza viruses.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Piett View Post
    This is good to hear, but it's sad to me how they can develop this yet still have no norovirus vaccine yet. It's frustrating trying to get through the year avoiding it. It's symptoms are far worse than influenza (to me) and it's considerably more contagious and hardy than influenza viruses.
    Although, in addition to the annoying seasonal strains, this vaccine theoretically should offer protection against the more virulent strains which occasionally crop up. Like the strain of H1N1 that killed 50-100 million in 1918. Strains of H5N1 carried by birds can have the same effect when they jump to humans. As you may remember, there was a pandemic that was luckily quickly contained in 2004. According to the WHO records the mortality rate was about 50%. Though that's been disputed, but the lower 30% estimate doesn't sound much better, especially if you imagine it passing through a major airport hub before anyone realizes what's going on.

    Hopefully a norovirus vaccine isn't far off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  9. #9
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Although, in addition to the annoying seasonal strains, this vaccine theoretically should offer protection against the more virulent strains which occasionally crop up.
    Precisely
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post



    The phase 2Ib is ongoing and the phase 3 is planned in Europe later this year.
    But this is the idea: the M-001 contains conserved, and common linear influenza epitopes that activate both cellular and humoral arms of the immune system against a wide variety of influenza A and B strains.
    The M-001 is a single recombinant protein containing 9 B- and T-cell conserved epitopes (epitopes that do not undergo antigenic change) from the HA, nucleoprotein, and matrix 1 proteins of both the influenza A and B virus strains, inducing both humoral and cellular immunity.
    Full article,
    Evaluating the immunogenicity and safety of a BiondVax-developed

    The corporate presentation, slides, BiondVax Company Presentation

    --
    It's not a new idea- let's go back to 2014 - Epitope-based approaches to a universal influenza vaccine. - NCBI
    Hahahaha I have no idea what I just read. Thanks though, I will try to puzzle it out on the weekend and not by using Wiki.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Although, in addition to the annoying seasonal strains, this vaccine theoretically should offer protection against the more virulent strains which occasionally crop up. Like the strain of H1N1 that killed 50-100 million in 1918. Strains of H5N1 carried by birds can have the same effect when they jump to humans. As you may remember, there was a pandemic that was luckily quickly contained in 2004. According to the WHO records the mortality rate was about 50%. Though that's been disputed, but the lower 30% estimate doesn't sound much better, especially if you imagine it passing through a major airport hub before anyone realizes what's going on.

    Hopefully a norovirus vaccine isn't far off.
    Just googled that and its terrifying, the rapid jump from avian to mammal is confirmed in multiple cases and opens infection channels via water birds & poultry into domestic cats & dogs, cattle and direct human infection, both by shedding and even by consumption (which I did not know was possible for the flu).

    I think the control mechanisms go back to the great work done by the Japanese and others around the bubonic plague around 1900 (and the resulting international agreements), the almost unlimited powers given to medical authorities to slaughter animals ("all poulty in a 10km radius") and close transport routes has seemingly prevented several major pandemics.

    Guess I know what I'll be dreaming about tonight .
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Hahahaha I have no idea what I just read.
    In a very simple way,the parts of the flue virus which are recognized by our immune system are called epitopes.

    Memory immune protection is based on the presence of antibodies and T cells (relevant warriors of our immune system) already primed to recognize epitopes in the virus due to past infections or previous vaccination. Priming is the first contact between them and the antigen of the virus. They became ready to fight the virus.
    The M-001 vaccine contains epitopes that (allegedly) do not undergo antigenic change in any circumstances. While a virus can change substantially in some sequences/regions, it can still be recognized by the immune system if its epitopes are conserved.

    This vaccine is also important because above 65 years age, the older people is more vulnerable to the diseases and its complications, they are also less responsive to the vaccines and particularly susceptible to other strains that are not incorporated in the seasonal vaccine. This vaccine can enhance immune responses in elderly individuals.
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    ...
    The M-001 vaccine contains epitopes that (allegedly) do not undergo antigenic change in any circumstances. While a virus can change substantially in some sequences/regions, it can still be recognized by the immune system if its epitopes are conserved.....
    Thanks, I understand that. Great work spotting the persistent epitopes, IIRC thats been the problem with the flu, that it keeps changing its IP address/Twitter handle/other metaphor so the mods couldn't ban it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    ...This vaccine is also important because above 65 years age, ...
    That's a very nice touch, as I understand it the H5N1 smashes more active immune systems (the Spanish Flu had dreadful mortality in the most vigorous cohorts because t put them in overdrive as it were), so this is covering a range of vulnerable groups from a range of threats.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Not a fan of flu vaccines they just don't work IMO but I am sure Big Pharma shareholders will get rich over in the US with yet another useless vaccine. I at least get mine for free as I work in a high risk area; definitely would not pay for it. This year I didn't get my shot but the kids did as per usual. Again both kids got really sick missed school for maybe2-3 weeks total this winter. While I never got flu & we have just hit second week of spring so I should be OK for rest if the year till next flu season.
    Last year was off sick maybe 2 moths total due to flu/virus despite getting flu shot. The only thing changed is I work less this year; more time to exercise & I am definitely less stressed since I reduced hours at work, I think that's made the difference. I don't think I'll ever get another flu vaccine ever again & this is the last time the kids got one too.
    Last edited by Stario; September 10, 2018 at 09:17 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Big Pharma
    Another conspiracy theory.

    The Psychological Roots of Anti-Vaccination Attitudes
    Health Psychology © 2018 American Psychological Association 2018, Vol. 37, No. 4, 307–315
    (2018) The Psychological Roots of Anti-Vaccination Attitudes:A 24-Nation Investigation


    In order of magnitude, anti vaccination attitudes were highest among those who (a) were high in conspiratorial thinking, (b) were high in reactance, (c) reported high levels of disgust toward blood and needles,and (d) had strong individualistic/hierarchical worldviews
    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    more time to exercise & I am definitely less stressed.
    Misconceptions about Vaccines | History of Vaccines

    Perhaps the best evidence that vaccines, and not hygiene and nutrition, are responsible for the sharp drop in disease and death rates is chickenpox. If hygiene and nutrition alone were enough to prevent infectious diseases, chickenpox rates would have dropped long before the introduction of the varicella vaccine, which was not available until the mid-1990s. Instead, the number of chickenpox cases in the United States in the early 1990s, before the vaccine was introduced in 1995, was about four million a year. By 2004, the disease incidence had dropped by about 85%.
    --
    The “Natural Immunity Is Better Than Vaccine-acquired Immunity” Misconception

    Some people argue that the immunity gained from surviving a natural infection provides better protection than that provided by vaccines. While it’s true that natural immunity lasts longer in some cases than vaccine-induced immunity can, the risks of natural infection outweigh the risks of immunization for every recommended vaccine.


    For example, wild measles infection causes encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) for one in 1,000 infected individuals, and, for every 1,000 reported measles cases, two individuals die. The combination MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) vaccine, however, results in encephalitis or a severe allergic reaction only once in every million vaccinated individuals, while preventing measles infection. The benefits of vaccine-acquired immunity extraordinarily outweigh the serious risks of natural infection, even in cases where boosters are required to maintain immunity.


    Additionally, the Hib (Haemophilus Influenzae type b) and tetanus vaccines actually provide more effective immunity than natural infection.
    Last edited by Ludicus; September 19, 2018 at 03:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    A review of the U.S. varicella (chickenpox) vaccination program, concluded that the vaccine has:

    1. Not proven to be cost-effective
    2. Increased the incidence of shingles
    3. Failed to provide long-term protection from the disease it targets―chicken pox―as vaccine efficacy was found to have declined well below 80 percent by 2002
    4. Is less effective than the natural immunity that existed in the general population before the vaccine was used on a widespread basis in the U.S.


    Reference:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X12007761


    EDIT:
    The chickenpox vaccine is another I would personally avoid (I personally got chickenpox & recovered naturally). Ironically both my kids got the vaccine & both got chickenpox a few years later within days apart (probably exposed to someone at school)- point 3 + 4 ticked.

    Now I have the extra worry (point 2); they are both at an increased risk of contracting Shingles. Shingles can cause encephalitis (inflammation of the brain), lungs & liver, & other things such as glaucoma, nerve damage etc etc...sorry buddy but NO misconceptions here
    Last edited by Stario; October 02, 2018 at 04:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    A review of the U.S. varicella (chickenpox) vaccination program,https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...64410X12007761
    2013.
    The findings and conclusions in this review are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), US Department of Health and Human Services, Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project (AV-VASP), or the Los Angeles Department of Health Services (LADHS), Acute Communicable Disease Control (ACDC) Unit.
    ...or the non official position around the world. See below,

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Both my kids got the vaccine & both got chickenpox a few years later
    ...and had much milder infections that resolved more quickly.
    Btw, adolescent and adult HIV-infected patients without a history of clinical varicella infection (ie, chickenpox or shingles) and lacking varicella antibody should be considered for primary varicella vaccination as long as the patient's CD4 count is >200 cells/µL. Let's keep in mind that the disease is highly contagious and up to 90% of the people who get the vaccine will not catch the disease.
    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    my kids.. They are both at an increased risk of contracting Shingles.
    Well, there is a sharp decline in the risk of contracting Zoster in kids less than 10 age. Studies assessing age-specific trends in HZ from a number of countries with and without varicella vaccination programmes have also suggested an increase in HZ incidence over time.

    The attenuated vaccine virus can reactivate and cause herpes zoster. However,many studies have found that herpes zoster rates started increasing before varicella vaccine was introduced in the United States, and did not accelerate after the routine varicella vaccination program started.
    Examination of links between herpes zoster incidence and childhood varicella vaccination. Annals of Internal Medicine. 159(11):739-45

    Increasing incidence associated with herpes zoster infection in British ...
    As in our study, prior to the publicly-funded varicella vaccination program in 2002, all age groups experienced increasing annual rates of HZ, but a sharp decline was seen in those less than 10 years of age for 2002–2010, the period in which varicella vaccination was publicly funded by the government
    Shingles in Alberta: before and after publicly funded varicella vaccination. Vaccine. DOI 10.1016/j.vaccine.2013.09.018.

    Eight years after the implementation of a routine publicly funded childhood chickenpox vaccination program in Alberta, there is a sharp decline in the rate of medically attended shingles for both females and males under the age of 10 years. Rates of medically attended shingles among older persons continue to increase and are higher for females than males; but it is not possible to assess the contribution of the vaccination program to this phenomenon as this is a continuation of a trend observed prior to vaccine licensure.
    Other countries have also observed similar increases in herpes zoster rates, eg. Germany,
    Hospitalization with varicella and shingles before and after
    Varicella vaccination significantly reduced varicella-HI in children below 10 y, but was not definitely related to varicella-HI in older age groups. A consistent increase of shingles-HI began before varicella vaccination was introduced and was not affected by vaccination.
    Successes and challenges in varicella vaccine - NCBI - NIH
    Most countries that have not implemented routine childhood varicella vaccination have chosen to vaccinate high-risk groups alone. The main reasons for not introducing universal vaccination are discussed, including fear of age shift of peak incidence age and of HZ incidence increase. Possible reasons for not observing the predicted increase in HZ incidence are explored. The advantages and disadvantages of universal vs targeted vaccination as well as different vaccination schedules are discussed.
    Global Varicella Vaccine Effectiveness: A Meta-analysis (2016)

    One dose of varicella vaccine was moderately effective in preventing all varicella and highly effective in preventing moderate/severe varicella, with no differences by vaccine. The second dose adds improved protection against all varicella...Additionally, the widespread use of varicella vaccine could reduce herpes zoster incidence among the vaccinated populations; several studies reported a lower risk for herpes zoster among varicella-vaccinated children5761 and a decline in herpes zoster incidence among cohorts targeted for varicella vaccination.59,62
    Editor's choice: Increasing Incidence of Herpes Zoster Over a 60-year

    The incidence of HZ has increased >4-fold over the last 6 decades. This increase is unlikely to be due to the introduction of varicella vaccination, antiviral therapy, or change in the prevalence of immunocompromised individuals.
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    The findings and conclusions in this review are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)...
    I am glad the findings don't represent the official position of the CDC et al. (American based departments with American interests), they are not meant to.
    You seem to be placing the CDC on a pedestal here mate, & disregarding the findings of the study just because they might not represent the "official position" of US based departments such as the CDC...Well GOOD LUCK WITH THAT MATE!
    My stance on this issue remains the same, that is natural immunity in most cases = best. I do wanna stress in "most cases", I am not saying this is true in all cases.
    I could post more studies (apart for the one I've already posted), supporting my view, likewise you could post more studies supporting your view as a 'fan-boy' of the CDC et al. like you did in the above post; but that would clearly be a waste of time...

    ...and had much milder infections that resolved more quickly.
    I disagree, it hit them just as hard (which is to say not very hard; it was really only a mild infection), as their un-immunised cousins. I also recall a very mild infection when I got chickenpox.
    Sorry I just don't subscribe to the "much milder infection" conspiracy theory.
    In any case if one gets an infection after being supposedly immunised against that infection, then one is likewise infectious as the individual that never got vaccinated, here one is still "endangering the life of immuno-compromised individuals" (common argument of pro-vac proponents).
    Sorry but I just don't see the benefit of vaccines that clearly don't work/or work very poorly (i.e. chickenpox, flu-vaccine). In these cases, natural immunity seem clearly superior.
    Last edited by Stario; October 07, 2018 at 10:38 AM.

  18. #18
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    You seem to be placing the CDC on a pedestal here mate, & disregarding the findings of the study just because they might not represent the "official position" of US based departments such as the CDC...Well GOOD LUCK WITH THAT MATE!
    Sorry, I don't mean to offend you, but you just haven't understood my post (the scientific articles). It's just an old ( 2013) and controversial article versus the main body of scientific evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    I just don't see the benefit of vaccines that clearly don't work/or work very poorly (i.e. chickenpox, flu-vaccine).
    By the way, flu-vaccine works. Look at the Spanish Flu outbreak in 1918. There were no vaccines in those days for influenza.
    In the US, before the routine use chickenpox vaccine in 1995, there were about 4 million cases of chickenpox each year, with an average of 10,500 hospitalizations and 100 deaths each year.
    And again,
    Anti-vaccine attitudes go deeper than education - SciDev.Net
    “It is possible that this relationship could be stronger in ‘rich’ countries since they have better Internet access, and [that is where] conspiracy communities live and prosper,
    “In websites, both the content and the images try to feed several social fears using attention-grabbing and negative terms,” Brown said. But at the same time, users demand more information about the benefits and risks of vaccines “in order to justify the arbitrary interference of the State when it compels people to get vaccinated against their will”,
    In Brazil, the Ministry of health has found several Facebook groups that have reached more than 13,000 followers as of 2017. These are fora where parents with anti-vaccine sentiments have shared blog posts — the majority of which are from other countries and in English — about alleged reactions to vaccines such as autism.

    These groups seem to be achieving success in their anti-vaccine campaigns: in 2017, only 76.7 per cent of children in Brazil received the second dose of the MMR vaccine that protects against measles, mumps and rubella, according to the Ministry of Health.

    The risk that results from people getting convinced that vaccines are ineffective is that both adults and children stop getting immunised. “You only need a small number of people that don’t get vaccinated in order to lose the ‘collective immunity’ that makes diseases reappear,”
    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Sorry I just don't subscribe to the "much milder infection" conspiracy theory.
    You are wrong. For example, measles.
    J Infect Dis. 1986 Nov;154(5):858-63.

    Vaccinated children get milder measles infection: a community study from Guinea-Bissau.
    Aaby P, Bukh J, Leerhøy J, Lisse IM, Mordhorst CH, Pedersen IR.

    Abstract
    We studied the occurrence of measles in vaccinated children from an urban area of Guinea-Bissau where measles causes high mortality. Vaccinated children who developed measles required more-intense exposure to become infected (they had a higher ratio of secondary cases [infected in the house] to index cases [infected outside the house]), had a lower mortality among secondary cases, and were less infectious (they generated fewer secondary cases than did unvaccinated children with measles). The attack rate among vaccinated children was significantly higher in households in which someone died of measles. Both severity of infection and development of measles in vaccinated children were related to intensity of exposure. Vaccine efficacy was 72%, and 33% of cases occurred among vaccinated children; however, most mothers remained confident that vaccinated children get milder measles. Moreover, there was significantly greater vaccination coverage among younger siblings of vaccinated children who had contracted measles than among other children in the community.
    Clinical Significance of Measles: A Review | The Journal of Infectious ...

    Forty years after effective vaccines were licensed, measles continues to cause death and severe disease in children worldwide. Complications from measles can occur in almost every organ system. Pneumonia, croup, and encephalitis are common causes of death; encephalitis is the most common cause of long-term sequelae. Measles remains a common cause of blindness in developing countries. Complication rates are higher in those <5 and >20 years old, although croup and otitis media are more common in those <2 years old and encephalitis in older children and adults. Complication rates are increased by immune deficiency disorders, malnutrition, vitamin A deficiency, intense exposures to measles, and lack of previous measles vaccination. Case-fatality rates have decreased with improvements in socioeconomic status in many countries but remain high in developing countries.
    ---
    ---
    And people who get chickenpox after being vaccinated typically have fewer spots, and blisters, lower fever, and a faster recovery than those who are not vaccinated. And more: the vaccine helps reduce, and may prevent, symptoms even when it is given after exposure to the virus.The vaccine is useful when given early after exposure to chickenpox.

    Vaccines for children in rich and poor countries - The Lancet

    Varicella
    when clinical disease does occur, it is usually an afebrile illness with less than 50 lesions.
    More,
    Varicella vaccination in the European Union - ECDC - Europa EU

    Though most persons with varicella make full recoveries, 2‒6% of varicella cases attending a general practice are estimated to develop complications.
    The most frequent complications are skin and soft tissue superinfections, followed by neurological and pulmonary complications. Long-term sequelae have been reported in 0.4 to 3.1% of patients hospitalised for varicella infections. The risk of severe varicella is higher in immunocompromised individuals, infants and adults.
    Nevertheless, most complications, hospitalisations and deaths due to varicella occur in children who are immunologically healthy with no underlying medical conditions.

    There is growing evidence that monovalent and combined varicella vaccines are highly immunogenic, efficacious and safe in preventing varicella disease.
    Efficacy is very high against severe varicella and lower against less severe varicella after a single dose of varicella vaccine. High efficacy has been observed with two doses in preventing disease of any severity.
    Varicella vaccination - the global experience - NCBI - NIH (2016)
    Conclusions

    Varicella poses a significant public health concern in children and can be prevented with effective varicella vaccination programs. The balance of evidence shows that one dose of varicella vaccine provides high protection against moderate-to-severe varicella but two doses are required for optimal protection against all varicella disease, to limit transmission and to reduce the risk of breakthrough cases and outbreaks. In countries where routine universal vaccination has been implemented, real-world effectiveness and impact studies show significant reduction in the incidence and disease burden of varicella without predicted rises in adult varicella and HZ.

    More?

    Efficacy of varicella (VZV) vaccination: an update for the clinician (2016)

    Varicella is one of the leading causes of vaccine-preventable deaths in children [CDC, 1999]. Routine childhood immunization has markedly reduced the incidence of varicella in the US [Marin et al. 2007, 2008; Schmid and Jumaan, 2010; Seward et al. 2008]. The varicella vaccination may provide protection against 85% of cases of chickenpox and 95% of cases of severe secondary infection [Vazquez et al. 2001].
    Prior to 1995, nearly four million cases of chickenpox occurred each year in the US, resulting in 11,000 hospital admissions and 100 deaths [Galil et al. 2002]. However, the introduction of a universal vaccination in many countries such as Japan [Takahashi et al. 1974], Korea [Sadzot-Delvaux et al. 2008], and the US [Marin et al. 2007] has led to a dramatic reduction in the varicella incidence, its associated complications, hospitalizations, and fatality rate [Holmes, 1996]

    Long-term Effectiveness of Varicella Vaccine: A 14-Year, Prospective Cohort Study

    Vaccine effectiveness at the end of the study period was 90%, with no indication of waning over time. Most cases of varicella were mild and occurred early after vaccination. No child developed varicella after a second dose. HZ cases were mild, and rates were lower in the cohort of vaccinated children than in unvaccinated children during the prevaccine era.

    Eurosurveillance | Assessing varicella vaccine effectiveness and its ... (2017)

    the probability for a mild course of the disease is higher for vaccinated cases.

    VE against varicella-associated complications (VE1 = 98.2%, 95% CI: 98.0–98.5; VE2 = 99.5%, 95% CI: 99.4–99.5) was significantly higher than against non-complicated varicella (VE1 = 65.3%, 95% CI: 64.2–66.4; VE2 = 89.3%, 95% CI: 89.0–89.7) with two doses being significantly more effective than a single dose.

    ----
    Edit, I missed this,
    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    natural immunity seem clearly superior.
    Not at all. The risk that chickenpox poses to your child’s health is far greater than any risk related to immunizing your child against chickenpox.
    I can see from here a huge fan of Pox parties. 'Pox parties' still pose risk for severe chickenpox complications - Healio

    Food for thought. Why vaccine opponents think they know more than medical experts? answer: it's the Dunning-Kruger effect.



    Social Science & Medicine
    Volume 211, August 2018, Pages 274-281

    Knowing less but presuming more: Dunning-Kruger effects and the endorsement of anti vaccine policy attitudes
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 12, 2018 at 10:44 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

  19. #19
    Stario's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus
    By the way, flu-vaccine works. Look at the Spanish Flu outbreak in 1918. There were no vaccines in those days for influenza.
    Improvements in sanitation, water & decline of hunger are credited with the decrease in illnesses, not vaccinations.
    http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus
    You are wrong...
    You claim my 2013 reference is old, then you yourself use a 1986 reference. HAHA


    Questionable immunity promised by Vaccines:

    Among those recently infected with measles, the majority, and, in some cases, 100%, have been vaccinated with the MMR vaccine.
    https://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/R.../03/id/622461/


    News reports have also connected recent mumps outbreaks to be among those receiving the vaccination
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1177096/mu...re-vaccinated/


    In a 2010 report that Merck falsified data in their MMR vaccine to show a 95 percent effectiveness rate against mumps.
    https://vactruth.com/2016/04/30/harvard-mumps-outbreak/


    CDC study has shown only a 44% effectiveness rate for the chicken pox vaccination, which was earlier claimed to be 70-90% effective.
    https://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Di...hickenpox.aspx


    EDIT:
    Food for thought. Why vaccine opponents think they know more than medical experts? answer
    answer...some of us are actual medical experts with actual PhD degrees. AND by the way the irony, the Dunning-Kruger effect IMO is very much still in effect even at the PhD + level
    Last edited by Stario; October 15, 2018 at 07:59 PM.

  20. #20
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Universal flu vaccine

    @Stario

    I can see you are a fan of natural immunity. But the problem is that we are no longer in such an environment to achieve such immunity. The cost of being in that environment was a great deal of children dying, thus why parents wanted vaccination. Today the chicken pox is relatively a rare disease, so where is the source of such natural immunity?

    In short, you claims regarding the superiority of natural immunity require a world without vaccination. I fail to have followed your logic that would be a superior course for today. How would you achieve such an environment without the cost of children's lives?
    Last edited by NorseThing; October 20, 2018 at 03:13 PM.

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