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Thread: Is there such a thing as having too many Family Members in EB2?

  1. #1

    Default Is there such a thing as having too many Family Members in EB2?

    I'm having the feeling that I have too many Family members and not enough cities for them to govern.

    I have conquered Sicily, the Numidians and Iberia but I am unable to place my FMs as governors in those cities due to them being foreign and having the Interloper trait which is why a client ruler was installed. Also however, due to the high Influence of my FMs, they will override the governorship of the client rulers by staying in the city, as a result i'm forced to have my FM generals (most highly influential and accomplished) basically standing around all over Spain?

    Should I bring them all back to the Carthaginian land and put everyone in the Capital or surrounding Carthaginian cities? But that would mean having 4-5 FM in each city which I am guessing is not ideal either?

    Is there any downside of having so many FM in one city other than taking up unit slots? Reduced loyalty or Increased unrest, etc

    It seems to me that the ethnicity of the FMs determines where he can stick around which is a problem as there too few Carthaginian or Punic cities and too many FM governors.

    *Am not really keen on sending them to their deaths on kamikaze sea voyages against rebel fleets either, that would defeat the purpose of having such an awesome RPG approach to the game. Would be boring if all the FMs are perfect SCVs.

    Any advise on this one? Thanks
    Last edited by qwertykov; May 06, 2020 at 01:13 AM. Reason: English

  2. #2

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Having played around 400 turns with Carthage, I have to say that: There is no such thing of having too many FMs in EB2. In fact, I often complain that there are to few FMs.
    In your campaign, you problably created to many allied cities. For me, because Africa, Sicily and Iberia were the main Carthaginian targets, I made most of the cities ruled by my FMs. Only the two cities in the south of Africa are rulled by generals because they are to distant to send FMs there.

    Other things I do is always keep 2/3 FMs as generals with the army for the campaign. I normally only have 2 FMs per city (it does not seem to have any problem having more FMs on the cities), with only Carthage or Atiqa with more than that (either to educate them better or for them to become generals or gain offices).

    The ethnicity of the FMs does not seem to have a great influence but I normally decided the FM "job" based on his ethnicity. He can either rule a great city, become a general (normally a leave that for the ones with iberians/celtiberians/greek/numidian origins).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Having played around 400 turns with Carthage, I have to say that: There is no such thing of having too many FMs in EB2. In fact, I often complain that there are to few FMs.
    In your campaign, you problably created to many allied cities.
    I have never played as Carthage, but if I am interpreting the game guide correctly, those non-allied governments are not available in the early part of the game. Unless the most primitive option "supervised colony" before any upgrades is one. Maybe the game kind of invites the player to build whatever is available without the player understanding the consequences.

    Very interesting that ethnicity comes into play with family members. I play as Rome and see only Romans in the family tree.

    I too use the extra FMs that accumulate as additional cavalry/leadership on campaigns in case I need to occupy something or split forces. They work nice as long as you are careful not to get the general killed.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Yes, you are right Septentrionalis. The most advanced types of government are not available at the begining. I just ended up with supervised colony and latter allied city (that allow your FMs to rule them). Later I demolished them and built a more advanced government type.

    I have never played as Rome but don't your FMs have like Patrician and other ethnicity?
    Just don't use more than 2 FMs in an army because that would be almost like cheating against the poor AI.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    I have never played as Rome but don't your FMs have like Patrician and other ethnicity?
    Just don't use more than 2 FMs in an army because that would be almost like cheating against the poor AI.
    Ah, so that's it. Yes, they have the social order or class distinction. I just never realized it would be analogous to ethnicities in other factions. Thanks for pointing that out.

    I started playing EB2 as Sweboz and might get back to that later, but it turned out to be too confusing without yet understanding all the colonies and government types and so on. The mod is so unbelievably intricate, detailed, and true to history. I thought that Rome would be a smoother introduction to the game since Roman history and the Latin language are much more familiar to me.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Just don't use more than 2 FMs in an army because that would be almost like cheating against the poor AI.
    Forgot to comment about AI. Yes, those poor guys sometimes make the craziest of mistakes (acknowledging that making any AI must be the hardest thing in the world). Then again, the AI comes up with some crazy stacks, especially for the Eleutheroi but sometimes for factions as well. All pity goes out of the window when they suddenly appear at your gates with 22 full units and you have to muster all the troops from nearby and not-so-nearby settlements just to have a fighting chance .

  7. #7

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Yeah, that's true!

    Making a competent AI may be hard but there are some legends that manage to do it very well like DarthMod for Rome Total War. The way he modded the AI... I can say that from all the total war games and mods I played, it has his Mod that gave me the greatest challenge both on campaign and in the battlefield. A true total war legend

  8. #8

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Making a competent AI may be hard but there are some legends that manage to do it very well like DarthMod for Rome Total War.
    Sounds cool! I checked the TWCenter wiki on that just now, but I wasn't sure if it is a tweak on stats and things like that or a significant modification of how AI itself behaves. All the features listed there sound like they make a lot of sense, though.

    I also checked the wiki for Darthmod crew's AI mod for Empire, and there they claim that the actual AI has been changed. Intersting stuff indeed.

    I am in the habit of coming up with roleplay explanations for what seem like shortcomings in game design. But some things are hard to justify, like your pursuing cavalry running side by side with the broken enemy but not really engaging them. Then again, I may have ruined a lot of stuff by opting to play on huge unit size. It seems to interfere with pathfinding and makes functioning within cities especially frustrating.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Darthmod work for Empire seems to be the thing that made him a legend, I never tried but I bet its good.

    Yeah, the cavalry running side by side with the broken enemy is a bit stupid indeed (I think they were smarter in Rome).

    Its funny because one of my goals is to play with huge unit size (I can't right now because my pc wouldn't suport it) and then there is you complaining about it ahah

  10. #10

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    I agree there are could be too many family members. In my Rome campaign, due to using allied government types now I am sitting with half stack of family members just sitting in Rome city. They cost a fortune to feed too.... I wish there is a way these unemployed family members can contribute, like contributing to a city's public order/recruiting building cost/income etc. without being a governor.

  11. #11
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    I think the number of the FMs is just a choice of the EBII team. It's quite different from the other mods I know (mostly medieval period) where you've got 2-3 guys at the beginning and this number constitutes a parameter (limit) in the gameplay. There the generals are actually a scarce resource to be managed carefully (assess many trade-offs, eg. using them as an elite unit in the battle against the risk of their death, using them as governors against as generals of the armies etc.). You care about their marriages to get more generals or to prevent your family from extinction or about their traits' development as they can seriously contribute to your economy or public order.
    In the EBII framework, there're many generals from the outset, they die out slowly (due to 4TPY) and the new ones are easy to get as client-rulers. It may create some problems with the family tree management (I've commented on this here), it provides for less of the gameplay for the development of their traits, but this is the gameplay choice of the team. The alternative would be to have much fewer historical characters who are - I guess - very cherished by the team.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    In your campaign, you problably created to many allied cities. For me, because Africa, Sicily and Iberia were the main Carthaginian targets, I made most of the cities ruled by my FMs. Only the two cities in the south of Africa are rulled by generals because they are to distant to send FMs there.
    Wouldn't having Carthaginian or non native FM as governor would effect the Interloper trait which cause unrest and higher maintenance which is not ideal. As far as i know the other way is to get a client ruler, which would render my FM pretty much useless in newly conquered lands?

    Whats you strategy for newly conquered cities for example in Iberia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    The ethnicity of the FMs does not seem to have a great influence but I normally decided the FM "job" based on his ethnicity. He can either rule a great city, become a general (normally a leave that for the ones with iberians/celtiberians/greek/numidian origins).
    Wouldn't FMs with iberians/celtiberians/greek/numidian backgrounds eg, "puno nuraghic" be ideal as governors for conquered numidian cities as they (i believe) should not get the Interloper trait?

    Also separating FMs into governors and generals, how does it work in your game?

    The way I use FMs is educate them in Carthage till they're 18, then they go out to the field for military experience, over the years, the good ones should gain significant command stars and be decently influential. They usually go on to be elected general and go on to conquer cities gaining more influence and command. By the time they are around 40-50, they should have maxed out their influence and be ideal as governors in my main cities replacing their predecessors.

    Might not be the best way, would like to hear how you guys do it, or if anybody even takes this RPG aspect of the game as seriously as me.. lol

  13. #13
    Marvzilla's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Interloper trait only occurs when FMs govern in a city with allied governments, regardless the ethnicity.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    The Interloper trait only appears when you have FMs in allied cities (for that I use client rulers). The way I use it I say it depends on what you want to do. If I'm conquering distant lands and I want my my FM General to keep conquering, I leave him in the city only for the time to get a client ruler or I sent there another FM to rule the city.
    For newly conquered cities in Iberia (I assume you are talking about the ones in the north) I tend to use client rulers and enslave the city (they give a lot of unrest because of the distance from capital and other factors). From my campaign, I have like half the cities in Iberia under the control of my FMs, the exception of the rule is Bracara (I don't quite remember the name but it is in the north on the west side) because I'm from Braga and I want to rule that city, otherwise it would had been a client ruler.

    I usually use more FMs with carthaginian/punic/iberian backgrounds to govern cities because they seem to be the best, the others normally become generals. However, I like to put FMs with a Numidian background governing their historical regions.

    It works in a simple way, if the General is smart, vigorous, charismatic and has other good traits he will probably be a very good General, therefore, I send him to Carthage to gain General traits and making sure I give him the doctor or herbalist ancilliary (and others that help in battles). If I already have three generals on campaign I could send him to govern one of my most important cities (it will depend on the age of the Army Generals). FMs with Numidan and Iberian background seem to be good generals overall and I also try to have at least one Carthaginian Generalin charge of the armies.

    Your way is not bad too, but I prefer to never put Generals (the really good ones) as governors, unless they are above 60 on age (I don't want my army to loose a general while on campaign mostly because it may rebel)

  15. #15
    Marvzilla's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    I dont think it is recommended to sack a city, or is enslave the second option ? Either way I use a similar system, using younger guys up to their fifties as generals, if they have the fitting traits and ethnicity, then use them as governors in retirement, others I use as governors in a city until their death, mostly using their offspring as inheritants, though some cities stay under strict royal control or if a line dies off or is not fitting they get replaced. Also make sure to pass of useful ancilliaries to younger guys when character approach seventy or so.

  16. #16
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Side note: there's a point where you get a certain amount of family members and the family tree gets bugged out. When you try to open it up, the game crashes to the desktop. You can, however, alternatively look at a list of generals in the officers tab next to your agents tab (which lists your spies, assassins, and diplomats on the campaign map).

  17. #17

    Default Re: Is there such a thing of having too many Family Members in EB2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Side note: there's a point where you get a certain amount of family members and the family tree gets bugged out. When you try to open it up, the game crashes to the desktop. You can, however, alternatively look at a list of generals in the officers tab next to your agents tab (which lists your spies, assassins, and diplomats on the campaign map).
    This hasn't happened to me yet. Fingers crossed..

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