[Civitate] Aexodus (Patron: Pontifex Maximus)

[General Brewster]

This isn't the time nor the place to discuss if a citizen is becoming of his citizenship or not. Please stop debating that.

[Abdülmecid I]

I'm on the verge here, to be honest. Aexodus tends to debate politely, but his attitude varies greatly depending on the topic. As it has already been suggested, when we discuss issues to which he feels rather attached, he often doesn't refrain from twitter-like whataboutisms or outright promotion of a specific narrative, to the detriment of the sincerity and productivity of the debate. In my opinion, it's a matter of whether or not the rest of his posts counter-balance this negative doubtlessly negative first observation. Personally, I'm leaning towards a positive answer.

He said...

What's wrong with his statement? Pontifex Maximus openly argued that Aexodus posts in good faith, a claim which seems a bit controversial.

After extensive observation and communication I am convinced Aexodus posts in good faith, with the intent to promote meaningful and intellectual discussion.

[Halie Satanus]

What's wrong with his statement?

Kat specifically referred to what Aex said, not what Ponti said.

rather than engaging in a sincere debate as claimed.

I strive to debate sincerely

'strive' infers aspirational intent, rather than a claim or boast.

Any way. Seems to be a lack of objectivity in this review. Like I previously said, no lazers from eye balls, but a good all rounder.

To the extent my recommendation............

Tut tut...

[Katsumoto]

I thought you were making some joke Halie - the definition of strive is 'to make great efforts to achieve or obtain something', the meaning is not purely aspirational or future tense. Bit odd for a candidate to suggest they aspire to do something, seeing as we're judging contributions and not aspirations? In any case, 'debating sincerely' is surely the minimum when it comes to judging a candidate whose main contributions are related to debating?

[Halie Satanus]

Synonyms for 'strive' include 'aspire, attempt, endeavour ect. I read his comment as an admittance he has not reached the heights we may seek for citizenship, a touch of humility, which is never a bad thing. It seemed you had it differently.

I was not intending to chide you, appologise if it came across as such. Just seeking some clarity.

[General Brewster]

I'm going to extend the debate period to at least tomorrow night.

[Pontifex Maximus]

It's somewhat strange to me that someone "who has given up on TWC" and posts a few other rather apocalyptic statements about the state of the site, would go to the trouble of patronizing somebody. I also had some problems with a few things that I deemed as questionable personally lately, but this site is still a lot more than just one section of it and a Citizen application thread is not the place to discuss it.

I'm here on Aexodus' request. To his credit he still believes being a citizen and part of the Curia is worthwhile despite the curious treatment of his applications. As for my previous statements, I think they are being blown out of proportion.

[Commissar Caligula_]

So is anyone actually against the application? I only see straight Yes', and a few people on the fence.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Katsumoto seems squarely in the no camp, despite the incongruous statements he has made in this and the last application. I can't speak for others.

[SharpEyed]

In short: still Abstain zone.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Fair enough my friend

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I'm probably in the Abstain zone Ponti old boy. Maybe it's too soon for a citizenship. I believe a year of presence in the Forums is not the ideal time to judge someones contributions, since I have seen people here easily getting bored and abandon us after such a short period of time.
Also I don't have a ''clear'' opinion about him yet. I think more time will be needed.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I encourage everyone to form their own opinion based on the contributions presented, and would caution against establishing arbitrary time periods for membership. In my time here I have sponsored some for citizenship who have had it granted and with less than 1,000 posts have gone inactive from the site. It's a mixed bag which historically doesn't really count for much. Let's focus on who is here contributing positively for now without speculating about how long they will be active - I think that's the best approach.

that being said, I respect your opinion.

[Lifthrasir]

Haven't made my mind yet tbh

[Katsumoto]

Katsumoto seems squarely in the no camp, despite the incongruous statements he has made in this and the last application. I can't speak for others.

Perhaps you shouldn't speak for me either. What incongruous statements about the candidate have I made?

[Sir Adrian]

I'm also in the Abstain zone Ponti old boy. Maybe it's too soon for a citizenship. I believe a year of presence in the Forums is not the ideal time to judge someones contributions, since I have seen people here easily getting bored and abandon us after such a short period of time.
Also I don't posses a ''clear'' opinion about him. I think more time will be needed.

I got citizenship after 1 year and 5 months on the forum, and I didn't get it sooner only because my application was pushed back due to the removal of the CdeC being discussed.

[SharpEyed]

I think the time passed since the join date is somewhat irrelevant as long as it's more than a year.

Though not since the Join date, I got it in less than a year of activeness.
But afaik you were already in Content staff?

[Iskar]

First of all, I see a sloppy application and needlessly defensive arguments that neither do the candidate justice nor help him very much. This is not a trial of a delinquent but a vote on a prospective awardee, so there is no need to question every opinion or demand evidence for negative statements.

Now for the pleasant part. Aexodus was already on the right track last time and what was rightfully called „a smattering of D&D posts“ previously has become reliable activity. What's more is that he has extended his otherwise already present politeness to the debating sphere as well and has adopted a less shouty posting style in the past few months. I'll happily support his application therefore and look forward to seeing the further development of his debating contributions.

[Love Mountain]

First of all, I see a sloppy application and needlessly defensive arguments that neither do the candidate justice nor help him very much. This is not a trial of a delinquent but a vote on a prospective awardee, so there is no need to question every opinion or demand evidence for negative statements.

Now for the pleasant part. Aexodus was already on the right track last time and what was rightfully called „a smattering of D&D posts“ previously has become reliable activity. What's more is that he has extended his otherwise already present politeness to the debating sphere as well and has adopted a less shouty posting style in the past few months. I'll happily support his application therefore and look forward to seeing the further development of his debating contributions.

Agreed. Debating quality varies with everyone but with Aexodus it tends to be towards the... well, more towards the demagogue end rather than intellectual? Not sure how to put it. That said, Aexodus does make a much larger effort to be polite than I think I ever did, and he is an important voice in the Mudpit on many issues. Overall I think Aexodus is well within the deviation of an "average citizen" and I'll support this application.

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

I suppose I'll come out to bat for him as well.

Firstly, I like Aexodus. Having interacted with him more since his last application, I've found that he is a nice guy, and contrary to some aspersions cast on him, an honest and sincere fellow. Assuming he would be reapplying in the future, I have kept an eye on his activity since last time and I think there's enough there for me to support this time. The passion and commitment for the site hasn't waned since before, and there's a good case for saying it has become stronger since. I don't think TWC is a fad or passing fancy for him; his daily activity over a wide selection of fora this past year indicates to me that he lives and breathes TWC, which will make him a great citizen.

After the last application was cut short prematurely, I gave a detailed outline of my thoughts on the candidate to Ponti, as I didn't get chance to fully explain myself before the thread was closed. In that message, I highlighted two areas of concern that prevented me from supporting the application. The first was my concern about Aexodus' intentions. As has been pointed out, it is quite easy to read demagoguery into his posts sometimes, given how he often tends to revisit the same themes regardless of the topic at hand. This habit hasn't really changed all so much in the interim, although observing his posting style over a longer period, I don't believe he has a real agenda here; he has his beliefs and his values, and he sticks to them. It might come across as preaching or proselytising some times, but I think that would be out of character for him. He believes what he believes and wants to discuss issues close to his heart; I'm not sure there is anything insidious about that anymore.

The second concern I had was the general quality of his debating. When assessing Civitates applicants, I generally look for nuance and eloquence in their posts. Unfortunately I still don't really see that from him, although I've come to realise that perhaps my view of what makes a good candidate may be too narrow. Aexodus might not have a portfolio of intellectual wonder-posts under his belt, but he is ever present: creating new topics, bringing new sources into debates, asking questions and interacting with people. He keeps discussions alive and, for the most part (although alas not always) attempts to keep them on track. I think this can be seen as a contribution it itself. He probably hasn't been here long enough to be considered a pillar of the community, but he is on the right track, so I will take a punt on him.

And for the record, time on the forum isn't necessarily a factor in deciding whether or not someone is 'ready' to become a citizen - if the contributions are there, it doesn't matter. Like Settra, I also attained citizenship after one year, and I think I even have a cousin somewhere who got his after the minimum two months.