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Thread: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

  1. #101
    Mwulf's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Honestly, none of my issues with Rome 2 have anything to do with wanting more (or less) depth or complexity. The big issues, to me, are the lack of believably-realistic unit collision mechanics (which is purely aesthetic) and how inefficient and obtuse the UI is, especially compared to other entries in the series.

    I've seen the whole, "oh, it's good because it appeals to arcade gamers, so you just aren't appreciating it properly" since Rome 2 launched. And, really, it just kind of reeks of, at worst, apologism, and at best, a kind of base misunderstanding of the entire franchise. The whole draw of the franchise has always been its relative simplicity relative to the grand strategy genre. Fans have always appreciated the simpler systems and "arcade-like" mechanics. When we criticize Rome 2, it's not because we don't understand what Rome 2 is, it's because we see what Rome 2 is trying (and more often than not, failing) to be.
    "What is the most cowardly and shameful thing in human conduct? It's when people with power, and those who flatter them, hide in safe places and extol war--people who force patriotism and self-sacrifice on others, sending them to the battlefield to die. For the sake of peace in the universe, before we continue this fruitless war... mustn't we first start by exterminating such evil parasites?"
    -Yang Wen-Li

  2. #102
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    When people say that they don't like the unit collision, I wonder what you'd like to see which you don't see. Do you not like units changing shape when they enter melee, forming a 'blob' shape (would you prefer to see units maintain a rectangular formation more?) Would you like to see heavy units pushing back lighter ones more? Is this about both of those, or something else?

    I'm quite surprised by claims that Rome II is simpler. In some earlier games (like Empire Total War) I need to manage public order and money. In Rome II, I need to manage public order, money, food, Imperium (more Imperium means a bigger population allowing you to recruit more armies, but if it gets too high you get the problems of large empires, such as corruption and civil wars), the influence of my ruling party and the loyalty of rival parties. Managing all of this seems more complex to me, not less.

  3. #103
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Often argument is, limited building slots. Because walls and roads are now part of main building chain. I don´tunderstand this obsession with building roads in every province. People are completely missing that we got new point in state/region(city) hierarchy. That is now state/province/region(city).

    CA is not best at balancing all building effects but overall this system is more complex and it is not just build everything....Only problem is Ai struggling to build correct sets of building for example to unlock certain units. However there are always ways to change this. For example Ancient Empires for Attila are binding unit recruitment to the main building,not usual barracks. Barracks and such only are boost recruitment etc...

    Tl dr; changing 6/4 building slots into 10/6 , allowing roads and walls to ve separate buildings and people would praise R2...lol
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  4. #104
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    "that's complexity for complexity's sake."
    ...That's surely my pathological case

  5. #105
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    FORGET THE POST ABOVE, TWC IS ALREADY UNDER SOME WEIRD STATUS AND PAGE SHOWN WAS DIFFERENT THAN THIS ONE...

  6. #106
    Mwulf's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    When people say that they don't like the unit collision, I wonder what you'd like to see which you don't see. Do you not like units changing shape when they enter melee, forming a 'blob' shape (would you prefer to see units maintain a rectangular formation more?) Would you like to see heavy units pushing back lighter ones more? Is this about both of those, or something else?
    We mean we want to see the same unit collision mechanics present in *literally* every single Total War game -except- Rome II. We mean that we want enough spacing between the units that the combat animations can play properly. Seeing all of your troops pressed up against each other cheek-to-cheek looks deeply and profoundly stupid. As does seeing 2000+ troops crammed into a 20m^2 blob.
    "What is the most cowardly and shameful thing in human conduct? It's when people with power, and those who flatter them, hide in safe places and extol war--people who force patriotism and self-sacrifice on others, sending them to the battlefield to die. For the sake of peace in the universe, before we continue this fruitless war... mustn't we first start by exterminating such evil parasites?"
    -Yang Wen-Li

  7. #107
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    "that's complexity for complexity's sake."
    ...That's surely my pathological case
    Only now can I unveil my exciting new concept for a realism mod for Rome II (the title came from the webcomic Order of the Stick):

    Sexy Shoeless Gods of War: The Realistic Sandals, Boots, Shoes and Bare Feet Mod
    Are you frustrated by the dumbed-down, arcade-style simplicity of the representation of footwear in Rome II? Would you like a realistic, detailed representation of this?

    With this mod, players will click, each turn, to assign different numbers of craft-workers to produce sandals, boots and shoes. This will lead to a total supply of these items in warehouses. You will also need to click, every turn, in each of your provinces, to recruit craft-workers, to build footwear warehouses, to develop and expand footwear production workshops and to make wagons to transport footwear.

    You will manage a new footwear research tree, so that your faction can develop new and slightly different styles of footwear as fashion changes. Each turn, you will be prompted to click on your footwear research priority and be given detailed information about changing footwear fashions in your faction. Units with unfashionable footwear will suffer a 0.1% morale penalty.

    Each turn, you will need to click on each general and political leader to choose their footwear for the next turn. As they historically did, generals and leaders will sometimes acquire nicknames based on their choice of footwear. When choosing the footwear for each general and political leader, you will of course need to choose the colour. Choose carefully - historically Julius Caesar's choice of red footwear may have been linked to his assassination!

    You will click on each army, every turn, to see how many of your soldiers' footwear was damaged or destroyed through ordinary use, accidents and battles in the previous turn. When you click on each army, you will see accurate and up-to date numbers for each of these, for each unit, every turn. When footwear is damaged, you'll have the option of repairing it or replacing it. These options will appear in a separate report which will open automatically when you click on the army and which can be easily closed with a single click.

    You will then need to ensure that you assign the correct types of sandals, boots and shoes to each unit which needs them. The mod will include different types of footwear for different cultures. A unit which is issued with culturally innappropriate footwear will suffer a 0.2% morale penalty and will move 0.3% more slowly on the campaign map and battle-field. Some units in some cultures prefer not to wear footwear and will suffer these penalties if issued with footwear by the player.


    I know, I know, April Fools' Day was five days ago - and actual mods aren't absurd, like this example.

    You get the point, hopefully: there can be such a thing as complexity for complexity's sake, and more complexity doesn't automatically make the game more challenging and enjoyable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mwulf View Post
    We mean we want to see the same unit collision mechanics present in *literally* every single Total War game -except- Rome II. We mean that we want enough spacing between the units that the combat animations can play properly. Seeing all of your troops pressed up against each other cheek-to-cheek looks deeply and profoundly stupid. As does seeing 2000+ troops crammed into a 20m^2 blob.
    I see, thanks. This reminds me of how strongly different people focus on different things in the same game - and how we perceive the same things differently.

    It seems that you see Rome II's unit collision as different from "every single Total War game". I don't see the behaviour of units in Rome II as particularly different from other games of the same broad era (such as Empire and Napoleon).

    Given the (short) length of a Roman gladius and the fact that Roman infantry used the tactic of bashing their opponent with their shield before using their shortsword, I'm not surprised that melee involves units up close - they'd need to be. When longer weapons are used, such as pikes, I see units fighting at a distance - depending on the army composition, I won't always see "all of [my] troops" fighting as closely as you seem to suggest.

    Obviously, I know that none of this erases the fact that you're disappointed not to see the combat animations you'd like to see.
    Last edited by Alwyn; April 06, 2019 at 06:39 AM.

  8. #108
    Laetus
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    I'm getting back into Rome II after a long time away. I've played a few turns over the past few days and I've noticed something that annoys me: While I like that seasons have been introduced I don't like that 1 turn is one year, that makes no sense. Which mod is the best for giving more turns per year? I've seen quite a few and don't know which one to go for. The other thing that annoyed me was the unit cards but I fixed that with the NordoPic 3D unit cards mod from the workshop.

  9. #109
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AL890 View Post
    I'm getting back into Rome II after a long time away. I've played a few turns over the past few days and I've noticed something that annoys me: While I like that seasons have been introduced I don't like that 1 turn is one year, that makes no sense. Which mod is the best for giving more turns per year? I've seen quite a few and don't know which one to go for. The other thing that annoyed me was the unit cards but I fixed that with the NordoPic 3D unit cards mod from the workshop.
    It's always been 1 turn per year in the Grand Campaign, which to me makes a lot of sense as they're covering a vast sweep of history (some 300 years.) The way I see it since they added seasons, you're seeing a snapshot of each year. e.g. Turn 1 = Spring Year 1, Turn 2 = Summer Year 2, Turn 3 = Autumn Year 3, Turn 4 = Winter Year 4, Turn 5 = Spring Year 5 etc.

    As for TPY mods, while I can't recommend one specifically* (I don't use them) I believe it's meant to be better to make sure you get one that adjusts the rate of XP gain too. Otherwise you end up with every general (and agent) being a 10 Star superhero. Also be aware that there's been issues with mods and the new launcher, not sure on the specifics though.

    *EDIT: This one seems to get some good write ups though, so maybe worth a look.

    I never get the dislike of the unit cards, as to me they're atmospheric, provide a lot of information in such a small area, have good "at a glance" unit recognition, and in general are superior to the ones that are just a picture of the unit model. But that's just me. Glad you found a mod that makes them more to your liking.

    Hope that helps.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  10. #110
    Bran Mac Born's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    AL890-You can useWARS OF THE GODS-ANCIENT WARS version 8.1 yummy good bloody fun stuff!
    Plus there is over special 20 submods that can be used with Wars of the Gods.
    This is the largest overhaul mod of Rome 2 ever made.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil.../?id=193736354
    Last edited by Bran Mac Born; June 07, 2019 at 03:09 AM.

  11. #111
    Laetus
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Cheers guys. I'll have a look.

  12. #112
    Laetus
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Oh and I forgot to ask, are there any good graphical mods? I hear they improve the frame rate.

  13. #113
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Curious question guys, wasn´t there problem with characters and family trees after last year patches? Like the mortality and rate of childrens and other stuff? If i remember correctly,it used to be just one number in startpos however now it should require recompiling the startpos with AK?
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  14. #114
    Bran Mac Born's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Fixed in WOTG mod.

  15. #115
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bran Mac Born View Post
    Fixed in WOTG mod.
    That doesn't actually answer the question though.

    What is the issue? Is it specific to mods that change TPY or is it one effecting vanilla (I'm inclined to say just mods as the birth and mortality rates seem fine in vanilla?) And most importantly, how is it fixed?

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  16. #116
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    I don´t care about WOTG at all.

    It was just curious question, I´m not sure correctly if changing TPY is as easy as it was. That´s all. I think it is connected with mortality of characters and rate for children births so quick change via startpos is not getting the right result. And if I remember correctly it was needed to recompile the startpos via Assembly Kit so the mortality and rate for children is counted with increased TPY.
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  17. #117
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: the game is so :wub: i went back to Medieval 2

    I don't think you need to modify the startpos to change the children birth rate and mortality. This, I belive, can be done via db tables.

    Jake did for one of his submods. Take a look at this post. The 'Family' section.

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