Ethnic units recruitment requirements

[tentaku]

I am playing Romans now and I built Roman factional government in Tarentum ( the original Epirus city in Italy ). I can still recruit the Tarentum special cavalry, because the city is still mostly Greeks.

But when I checked the unit recruitment browser, it says its only recruiting buildings are those allied government types, so how come I can recruit those cavalry despite using a Roman factional government type....

And, I really like this cavalry unit, so what's the required cultural % of a city to recruit the ethnic units there, is it the same for all ethnic units?

Perhaps to keep recruiting unit I should instead build allied government there to keep the city Greek?

Also an extra related question, how come I can't recruit the kurepo celtic skirmisher cavalry.... According to recruitment map in unit recruitment viewer, it is recruitable in northern Italy city under allied government type, but in game, when i open building browser and look for the unit, it's not there...

[Septentrionalis]

I am playing Romans now and I built Roman factional government in Tarentum ( the original Epirus city in Italy ). I can still recruit the Tarentum special cavalry, because the city is still mostly Greeks.

[...]

And, I really like this cavalry unit, so what's the required cultural % of a city to recruit the ethnic units there, is it the same for all ethnic units?

I just remembered you asking this question. As a first-timer, I was surprised to find myself unable to recruit Tarentum cavalry at a seemingly random point without constructing a colony or anything like that. However, checking back on my savegames, it looks like it happened right at reaching 45% culture level. That is most likely not universal for ethnic units, though.

[QuintusSertorius]

45% is the trigger for Tarantinoi to disappear. If you want a reliable source of them as Rome, you need an Allied Government.

[tentaku]

Thanks guys. I resorted to hiring mercenary tarantum cavalry instead, since I pushed romanization too fast in this campaign. In my most recent conquests I have been using allied governments a lot more and actually found them to be better solution.

[Septentrionalis]

Thanks guys. I resorted to hiring mercenary tarantum cavalry instead, since I pushed romanization too fast in this campaign. In my most recent conquests I have been using allied governments a lot more and actually found them to be better solution.

I suppose you (and many other EB2 enthusiasts) enjoy having a great variety of unit types to play in your campaign. Following this forum for a month or two now has given me the impression that many see a value in itself in getting different kinds of units.

I appreciate the same for the historical depth and realism initially (and Tarantinoi are good, no contest), but for practical purposes, I cannot wait to get a more uniform Roman military machine set up.

[QuintusSertorius]

Also an extra related question, how come I can't recruit the kurepo celtic skirmisher cavalry.... According to recruitment map in unit recruitment viewer, it is recruitable in northern Italy city under allied government type, but in game, when i open building browser and look for the unit, it's not there...

Kurepos are the mercenary Celtic cavalry, which are only available as mercenaries. You can retrain them with an Allied Government in those places, which is why the browser thinks you can recruit them.

[tentaku]

@Sept: Yes I enjoy variety, I mean like roman military machine, but I would like them more if they appear more precious to me by contrasting them with filler ethnic units I get from different areas. Also specialty ethnic elite units are nice to have even inside the rigid uniform machine, like napoleon's polish horsemen or mamelukes.

@Quinn: OMG that's what I couldn't figure out !! I never knew you could retrain mercenary like that! Can't believe I am still learning about the mechanism of this game after so many years haha

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I usually don't bother with letting in allied governments in Italy, but push for full Romanization, colonies and Ius Latinorum as soon as possible. But then I mostly use mercenary Kurepos and Equites as light cavalry, anyway. With some Eporedoi Donnoi from Gallia Narbonnesis and also a few Akus Eporedoi thrown in - Celtic Cavalry is much better than Greek and Italian cavalry, IMO.

[Septentrionalis]

I usually don't bother with letting in allied governments in Italy, but push for full Romanization, colonies and Ius Latinorum as soon as possible. But then I mostly use mercenary Kurepos and Equites as light cavalry, anyway. With some Eporedoi Donnoi from Gallia Narbonnesis and also a few Akus Eporedoi thrown in - Celtic Cavalry is much better than Greek and Italian cavalry, IMO.

I also push for Romanization in Italy but try to apply Italic units and avoid Celtic ones in my armies where I can. However, I came across some illyrioi hippeis during my campaign in Illyria that were just wiping the floor with my Roman equites in despite of being outnumbered heavily. Either it was a glitch or the Illyrian cavalry is seriously overpowered. So far I have decided not to recruit any for roleplaying considerations, but maybe, out of curiosity, I should give it a try to see how they perform.

[QuintusSertorius]

I also push for Romanization in Italy but try to apply Italic units and avoid Celtic ones in my armies where I can. However, I came across some illyrioi hippeis during my campaign in Illyria that were just wiping the floor with my Roman equites in despite of being outnumbered heavily. Either it was a glitch or the Illyrian cavalry is seriously overpowered. So far I have decided not to recruit any for roleplaying considerations, but maybe, out of curiosity, I should give it a try to see how they perform.

Not a glitch, and they're not overpowered. Roman cavalry is just that bad compared to other peoples.

[tentaku]

Not a glitch, and they're not overpowered. Roman cavalry is just that bad compared to other peoples.

I took a look and saw the Illyra cavalry has slashing damage, while Roman cavalry had piercing damage. Does that make a difference....

[QuintusSertorius]

I took a look and saw the Illyra cavalry has slashing damage, while Roman cavalry had piercing damage. Does that make a difference....

The damage is based on the type of weapon. Romans have spears, the Illyrians have swords. Spears are more versatile, being useful in the charge and following melee, swords are only useful in the latter.

[Septentrionalis]

Not a glitch, and they're not overpowered. Roman cavalry is just that bad compared to other peoples.

I must say that I like and I dislike at the same time the fact that one cannot determine much about a unit's effectivity by just looking at the unit card in the game UI. Triarii look completely useless there and Roman cavalry is at least not that much inferior to the alternatives. However, bring both on the battlefield and witness something surprising.

[Marvzilla]

I must say that I like and I dislike at the same time the fact that one cannot determine much about a unit's effectivity by just looking at the unit card in the game UI. Triarii look completely useless there and Roman cavalry is at least not that much inferior to the alternatives. However, bring both on the battlefield and witness something surprising.

I wouldnt say thats entirely true, and if you want to know some of the more hidden stats either use the recruitment viewer which is a simple but great tool or one of the submods that displays additional info from the rc ingame.

[QuintusSertorius]

I must say that I like and I dislike at the same time the fact that one cannot determine much about a unit's effectivity by just looking at the unit card in the game UI. Triarii look completely useless there and Roman cavalry is at least not that much inferior to the alternatives. However, bring both on the battlefield and witness something surprising.

Unit cards display auto-generated garbage for the most part. Almost everything in "abilities at a glance" is nonsense, especially with cavalry.

[Sar1n]

Cavalry are one thing why you should keep some allied governments in Italy, both Sabelli and Tarentine cavalry are better than Roman by far.

[Marvzilla]

Wait does that mean that the basic attack, defense etc. stats are useless ? Or that they are not as important as the hidden stats, because I thought the second one but the first one would be new to me.

[Septentrionalis]

Wait does that mean that the basic attack, defense etc. stats are useless ? Or that they are not as important as the hidden stats, because I thought the second one but the first one would be new to me.

That is how I understood what Quintus wrote. It would perfectly explain why some of the stats make no sense at all and why some units with modest stats seem to perform really well. Like for Rome, the early (Camillan) triarii have worse melee attack than hastati of the same era, although triarii are more or less two steps more advanced a unit than hastati and perform superbly on the battlefield.

We can either get the recruitment viewer and see the stats for ourselves, or, as min maxing everything can ruin the feeling, just read up on the units and make decisions based on how we feel they would perform a given task in our armies. And try to observe them and learn.

[Marvzilla]

That is how I understood what Quintus wrote. It would perfectly explain why some of the stats make no sense at all and why some units with modest stats seem to perform really well. Like for Rome, the early (Camillan) triarii have worse melee attack than hastati of the same era, although triarii are more or less two steps more advanced a unit than hastati and perform superbly on the battlefield.

We can either get the recruitment viewer and see the stats for ourselves, or, as min maxing everything can ruin the feeling, just read up on the units and make decisions based on how we feel they would perform a given task in our armies. And try to observe them and learn.

I already do the latter partly, but I still think stats matter ? The Hastati vs Triarii thing stems from Triarii being spearmen and spears being stronger than everything else melee wise in EB 2 most probably.

[QuintusSertorius]

Wait does that mean that the basic attack, defense etc. stats are useless ? Or that they are not as important as the hidden stats, because I thought the second one but the first one would be new to me.

No they're not useless, but a lot of the secondary effects reported on the unit card are meaningless. Heavy cavalry are categorically not "Fast Moving". It also doesn't report things like movement speed, which is also animation speed (thanks, CA!), which significantly impacts combat performance.

The only reliable comparator is to read the EDU yourself, or else the Recruitment Viewer is an adequate second.