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Thread: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

  1. #1

    Default Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Hi, I love playing Carthage and I have the following questions with regards to the offices high & low of the characters.

    1) Despite already serving as "Shaqal", "Abd Bet", "Mehashebim" and "Mishtar" why does the option appear again for the character? Am I supposed to pull them out of Iberia back to Carthage again? Whats the point of all that?

    Or is there a term they must fulfill so they don't get the "Eligible for Shaqal (Tax Collector)" or "Eligible for Abd Bet (Temple Servant) again? I enjoy the RPG, micromanaging aspect of the game but this is getting slightly tedious especially when I have 20 over FMs...

    Would be better if once the role was undertaken for certain period (a term), the character will become for example, Ex-Shaqal or Ex-Abd Bet, just like Ex-Shopet or Ex-Rab so they wont be made eligible again. Coz even my Faction Leader gets made eligible for Shaqal, which is ridiculous...

    2) If the above is how it is and cannot not be adjusted, could someone please explain to me the mechanics and how I should go about developing my characters? Thanks


    EB2 is an astounding mod. Thank you guys so much for the outstanding work.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    The "Eligibility" trait simply shows that an FM is qualified to hold a particular office. There is no requirement to send them to Carthage unless you want to. As for faction leader eligibility for a particular office, keep in mind that there was no single leader for this faction, but the M2TW engine forces us to designate one - so even though it might seem odd for an FL to perform a lower level office, in historical reality that guy would have been just one of many leading citizens.

    That said, there is a lot of work planned for Carthage in v2.4 (the release after the pending v2.35), and I'm sure we'll take another look at the way eligibility is handled and offices are awarded.

    For a more detailed description of the various offices and election procedures, see this post.
    EBII Council

  3. #3

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Hi thanks Kull, appreciate the reply, am enjoying EB2 a lot, cant wait for the future updates! Will be following your progress on facebook. Keep us posted and thank for the awesome work! Regards,
    from Singapore

  4. #4

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    That said, there is a lot of work planned for Carthage in v2.4 (the release after the pending v2.35), and I'm sure we'll take another look at the way eligibility is handled and offices are awarded.

    For a more detailed description of the various offices and election procedures, see this post.

    Woaaah 2.4 on the horizon already, mad drooool....

    But I kind of envy Carthaginian offices, where elections happen everywhere, not just in capital. Whereas playing ROmans, I have to ready all the family members in Rome for elections....

  5. #5

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by tentaku View Post
    But I kind of envy Carthaginian offices, where elections happen everywhere, not just in capital. Whereas playing ROmans, I have to ready all the family members in Rome for elections....
    Maybe not for all offices, but anything requiring an election specifies that the character end his turn in "SettlementName sett_170" (Carthage)
    EBII Council

  6. #6

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    Maybe not for all offices, but anything requiring an election specifies that the character end his turn in "SettlementName sett_170" (Carthage)
    Again as Carthage, some FMs look really promising with SCV qualities and are good general material but they are getting the "rejected general" trait. Why is that so? What must the characters do to reverse it and gain the 'confirmed general" trait.

    I'm assuming, these mechanics are there for a good reason, (ie historical authenticity of Carthaginian political/military progression), which is absolutely fascinating and if so, what is the proper way to develop the characters?

    Would be great if anyone can shed some light on how it works and if this mod takes into account historical authenticity on how the Office holders rise through the ranks back in those early days.

    Thanks!

  7. #7
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    From my experience playing with Carthage, the FMs getting a "general" trait depends on their ethnicity. However, most of the existing ethnics groups allow the FM to gain Carthaginian citizenship by staying some turns in Carthage. After that he can gain the "general" trait (you must also be at war).

    The current carthaginian system is pretty basic, just let your FM stay in Carthage and he will gain traits and offices depending on his ethnic origin. But be carefull because if you put there a FM that you don't want to be a general, there is a good chance on him becoming a general and occupying a position that you would want to give to another general.

    EBII mod developers said that they will chance the current system.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    The "Eligibility" trait simply shows that an FM is qualified to hold a particular office. There is no requirement to send them to Carthage unless you want to. As for faction leader eligibility for a particular office, keep in mind that there was no single leader for this faction, but the M2TW engine forces us to designate one - so even though it might seem odd for an FL to perform a lower level office, in historical reality that guy would have been just one of many leading citizens.

    That said, there is a lot of work planned for Carthage in v2.4 (the release after the pending v2.35), and I'm sure we'll take another look at the way eligibility is handled and offices are awarded.

    For a more detailed description of the various offices and election procedures, see this post.
    Well in that case, i think it would be much better and less confusing if with the exception of Shopet, military appointments, etc, FMs are no longer made Eligible for roles previously held especially the ones of lower importance such as the three below

    Or if the FM had held the role before, have them indicate Ex-'Abd bet, Ex-Shaqal or Ex-Mehashebim without which it would be too easy to lose track of each FM's development.

    Just some feedback i hope the team could address..

  9. #9
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertykov View Post
    Well in that case, i think it would be much better and less confusing if with the exception of Shopet, military appointments, etc, FMs are no longer made Eligible for roles previously held especially the ones of lower importance such as the three below

    Or if the FM had held the role before, have them indicate Ex-'Abd bet, Ex-Shaqal or Ex-Mehashebim without which it would be too easy to lose track of each FM's development.
    I don't see a need for that. It's important to know if your FMs are eligible or not for those roles in case you want them to get an office to gain some traits. There is no need to give them Ex-Traits because in most case they would be able to be elected for those offices more than once.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    I don't see a need for that. It's important to know if your FMs are eligible or not for those roles in case you want them to get an office to gain some traits. There is no need to give them Ex-Traits because in most case they would be able to be elected for those offices more than once.
    But why would the most influential FMs want to run for lower offices? The problem with the current system is that it does not allow the FMs (or rather the player) to choose which office I want them to be elected for. In the end, since all are eligible for lower offices like Shaqal or Mehashebim, it puts the younger FMs at a disadvantage having to compete with all the other overqualified FMs whom have returned to Carthage to run for other higher offices like the War Council or the Roshim or the Ham and not the post of Shaqal...

    It has happened many times when the big characters get elected for all the offices at the expense of the younger ones... I know it reflect the realities of politics to a certain extent but it would be great to be able to choose which office i'd like my characters to run for... And it's not exactly easy to move them back and forth Iberia and Carthage all the time for elections either..

  11. #11
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertykov View Post
    But why would the most influential FMs want to run for lower offices? The problem with the current system is that it does not allow the FMs (or rather the player) to choose which office I want them to be elected for. In the end, since all are eligible for lower offices like Shaqal or Mehashebim, it puts the younger FMs at a disadvantage having to compete with all the other overqualified FMs whom have returned to Carthage to run for other higher offices like the War Council or the Roshim or the Ham and not the post of Shaqal...

    It has happened many times when the big characters get elected for all the offices at the expense of the younger ones... I know it reflect the realities of politics to a certain extent but it would be great to be able to choose which office i'd like my characters to run for... And it's not exactly easy to move them back and forth Iberia and Carthage all the time for elections either..
    You got it wrong.

    The trait system does not allow us to give unique offices to the FMs. Basically, everybody can get those traits if they are eligible too, the only things that stop them from getting it are the chances on the triggers and the requirements. Your young FMs are not getting them because they probably don't have the requirements yet.

    And it's not exactly easy to move them back and forth Iberia and Carthage all the time for elections either..
    That I also agree but regarding the offices, most of them are just for flavour. The most important ones are the Main and Secondary General trait. The others are just some officies that give some bonus for some turns but then go away.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Specific Questions on Carthaginian Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    You got it wrong.

    The trait system does not allow us to give unique offices to the FMs. Basically, everybody can get those traits if they are eligible too, the only things that stop them from getting it are the chances on the triggers and the requirements.
    I do not expected to be given. I understand they are to be elected and that aspect is of course beyond my control. What i think would be helpful is a record of past appointment and also a mechanic that allows us to choose which office we want our characters to run.

    So that younger FMs are allowed to run for lower offices without competition from the more influential older FMs who i have put in Carthage to run for other positions. Currently the Eligibility mechanic allows the influential FMs to basically run for every position on offer which is odd and prevents younger FM from advancement, especially when (correct me if i'm wrong) there is usually a quota to the number of appointments to each position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Your young FMs are not getting them because they probably don't have the requirements yet.
    What requirements are these? They are Eligible aren't they... Unless there is a quota to the offices?

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