Turkish-US economic war: Will the Turkish economy survive this?

[ioannis76]

Ah yes, championing for Kurds to win in their irredentist campaign under supervision of imperialistic powers in expense of well being of an entire country and its population. Very modern and democratic...

Surely, none of these imperialistic powers has ever utterly destroyed a kurdish village before.

[PointOfViewGun]

Surely, none of these imperialistic powers has ever utterly destroyed a kurdish village before.

So?

[ioannis76]

So?

Come on, do I really need to break it down? People don't judge according to what someone has done to others, they judge according to what someone has done to them. If Turkey has burned down kurdish villages (which it has), and other countries haven't, then the other countries (insert name(s)) are a better alternative (in the eyes of the Kurds) to Turkey for a patron (provided a patron has to be present in order for a small country to exist in the general area of the mid east). I tend to agree with their logic.

[ioannis76]

The only imperialism here is the one that is enforced on Kurds man

What is it? You are against helping people's liberation?

Setekh's viewpoint seems to be that, once the Ottoman Empire expanded to its maximum size, the world should "freeze" in that ideal status quo. Any uprisings against said Empire are just irredentist (previous history should be erased from memory and become irrelevant). It's the equivalent to a football fan, who demands that the referee end the match when his favorite team is ahead. I think that being nationalistic is often the equivalent to being a fan of a specific football team, and wanting this team to win all the time, rather than watch the match.

[PointOfViewGun]

Come on, do I really need to break it down? People don't judge according to what someone has done to others, they judge according to what someone has done to them. If Turkey has burned down kurdish villages (which it has), and other countries haven't, then the other countries (insert name(s)) are a better alternative (in the eyes of the Kurds) to Turkey for a patron (provided a patron has to be present in order for a small country to exist in the general area of the mid east). I tend to agree with their logic.

So, you're OK with hurting the entire population to help only one group?

Setekh's viewpoint seems to be that, once the Ottoman Empire expanded to its maximum size, the world should "freeze" in that ideal status quo. Any uprisings against said Empire are just irredentist (previous history should be erased from memory and become irrelevant). It's the equivalent to a football fan, who demands that the referee end the match when his favorite team is ahead. I think that being nationalistic is often the equivalent to being a fan of a specific football team, and wanting this team to win all the time, rather than watch the match.

Sigh... The least you could do is not lie. We're not living in 1918. It's 2018 now. Ottoman Empire no longer exist. First click with reality, then make claims about what others argue.

[ioannis76]

So, you're OK with hurting the entire population to help only one group?

In our specific example, the entire population is not hurt to help one group, at least not by the Kurds. Turkey, on the other hand, does just that. In order to protect her interests, she supports ISIS and affiliated groups eg the FSA.
But to answer your question, I would be in favour of hurting everyone, provided Turkey was included in those groups that are hurt. I believe you know that, already.

Sigh... The least you could do is not lie. We're not living in 1918. It's 2018 now. Ottoman Empire no longer exist. First click with reality, then make claims about what others argue.

Lying? where did that come from? I am merely describing the way of thinking of many nationalists, in Turkey or elsewhere.

[PointOfViewGun]

In our specific example, the entire population is not hurt to help one group, at least not by the Kurds. Turkey, on the other hand, does just that. In order to protect her interests, she supports ISIS and affiliated groups eg the FSA.
But to answer your question, I would be in favour of hurting everyone, provided Turkey was included in those groups that are hurt. I believe you know that, already.

In our specific example we have people championing for dissolution of multiple states that can only be done through civil wars while turning a blind eye to crimes of certain groups backed in order to control resources. But, yes, I know how pathetically biased certain positions can get...

Lying? where did that come from? I am merely describing the way of thinking of many nationalists, in Turkey or elsewhere.

You lied about what my position. Don't do that.

[dogukan]

It can rhappen through referandum as well? It does not have to happen through a civil war.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Plenty of countries got their independence without a civil war, including some that did via referendum (such as South Sudan).

[ioannis76]

Saying that while supporting an armed effort to do that doesn't really click with reality.

As long as an islamofascist government will not accept a referendum and an expression of free will, then there is no other way for the people to express their opinion, but for an armed struggle. And judging by its success, I would say that the Kurdish struggle is doing quite well, given that it faces a powerful opponent.

In our specific example we have people championing for dissolution of multiple states that can only be done through civil wars while turning a blind eye to crimes of certain groups backed in order to control resources. But, yes, I know how pathetically biased certain positions can get...

Not solely by means of civil war. Look at the example of Turkey's acquisition of the Hatay province, for example. It can be done by means of a referendum, as well. Why not ask the population of South East Turkey if they wish to remain in Turkey or wish to join a Kurdish state?


But let us return to the topic: "Turkish-US economic war: Will the Turkish economy survive this?"

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...rump-sanctions

Turkish lira CRISIS: Turkish gas costs ROCKET as currency woes deepens

Oh my! And it's September. Winter is coming. What will happen when gas and electricity demand rises? .

[PointOfViewGun]

As long as an islamofascist government will not accept a referendum and an expression of free will, then there is no other way for the people to express their opinion, but for an armed struggle. And judging by its success, I would say that the Kurdish struggle is doing quite well, given that it faces a powerful opponent.
Not solely by means of civil war. Look at the example of Turkey's acquisition of the Hatay province, for example. It can be done by means of a referendum, as well. Why not ask the population of South East Turkey if they wish to remain in Turkey or wish to join a Kurdish state?
But let us return to the topic: "Turkish-US economic war: Will the Turkish economy survive this?"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...rump-sanctions
Oh my! And it's September. Winter is coming. What will happen when gas and electricity demand rises? .

I pity getting pleasure out of suffering of others...

[tgoodenow]

. It would be a crippled mess.

give it a couple months and it will be

[ioannis76]

I pity getting pleasure out of suffering of others...

Really, now?

And to continue:

Turk Telekom goes bankrupt sparking panic in Turkish private sector

http://en.protothema.gr/turk-telekom...rivate-sector/

[ioannis76]

I'm thankful for this "brainwashing" process. Not because I'm Turkish, but because it was needed. Early 20th century Anatolia was a chaotic mess. Different ethnic groups were forming armed gangs purely based on ethnic identities.

How else did you expect them to claim their independence from an empire that only knew violence?
Have you ever seen a non-violent movement for independence?
People were trying to liberate themselves from that which was strangling them. When people are trying to remove something that chokes them, they become violent.
If the turkish nation was under foreign rule and it fought against that rule, you would refer to the same violent struggle as "noble". Here, you refer to it as "gang war".

[Tureuki]

I didnt strictly refer to independence movements. I'm talking in general. Ethnic groups were sticking to themselves, banding and were skeptical of each other. There were Pomak gangs, Circassian gangs etc. I think this can be roughly compared to middle eastern immigrants in Europe sticking to each other, forming their own ghettos etc.

[Akrotatos]

How is the average Turk affected by this situation? (going back to the topic)

[Tureuki]

So far daily life didnt got any major impact. A lot of stuff got their prices raised but its still in tolerable levels.

[AnthoniusII]

Turkey has an "attractive" currency for export things. The main issue now is the blackmail for the companies that would like to import Turkish products , the finall price of them in Dollars!
Example: If a x turkihs product would export in a price of 100 US Dollars now it will be exported for ten not only from the Lira/Dollar prices but because that foreign companies will try to bennefit MORE!
In the end -if situation continues like this- the products export prices will be less that their production costs. Then Turkey will have ONLY one way to follow like Germany did in late '30s ...Create its own zone of interests with vassal states that will depend exlusevly in Turkish products. Inorder to achieve that goal it needs to go to war with them. Armenia, Syria, northern Iraq, Greece, Bulgaria even Georgia are potential targets for such an expansion. Remember...HISTORY teaches us and this wont be a TW game but real wars! If Turkey loses the momentum it will lose military power and that will lead not in a finansial collapse but to brake into smaller pieces! Alevistan, Kurdistan, Asyria, Lazika are some of the fragments that will apear. Erdogan knows it well the question is : Do his followers know those possibilities also?

[Tureuki]

Alevistan gave me a stroke.

[AnthoniusII]

Alevistan gave me a stroke.

It was a joke since in the past there was an Alevites ilegal armed force in anatolia!
Seriusly now.
In 1938 Germany transformed 80% of its industry to a military one.
Fact one: Germany imported ALL the major materials for its industry (metals, etc) but had limited exports.
Fact two: Germany imported ALL its Oil that made its economy and army move.
Fact three: Germany felt surrounded by mortal enemies that could take parts of its teritrory (Polland,Tsechoslovakia,France etc).
Fact four: Germany found a temporary ally to Soviet Unit (modern Russia) for industrial and military partnership.
Fact five: Germany was deeply politicaly devided and needed a common cause to unite the nation.
Fact six: The result of previus five facts lead Germany to all arround war.
Quiz: Does anyone sees any simularities with the Germany months before 1939 and modern Turkey?