Macedonian pikemen without a shield?

[Valiant Champion]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2b/ec...cf145c0fa0.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/eb...ff91d18e76.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9d/e2/ce/9...ncient-art.jpg

I was trying to find contemporary depictions of Macedonian Pikemen and I came across some contemporary images of them.

I was surprised to find that none of the contemporary images I found depicted a pikeman with a shield. Although this flies in the face of everything we are taught, it does make sense that such a long weapon would have had to be wielded without the slightest hindrance. The phalanx had to be able to move quickly and efficiently and the extra weight of even a light shield could have made a heck of a difference stamina wise.

Just wanted some feedback and maybe some contemporary sources from the era to demonstrate that they did use a shield. Frescoes, Mosaics or relief images are preferred.

[conon394]

Problem with frescos is they are not photos but stylized art. Its not like you have the equivalent of this:

https://mronline.org/wp-content/uplo...7-600x400.jpeg



Or any other snap shot of soldiers in the field anywhere. Your third image is particularly a classic Greek art style I see no reason to expect you are looking at a Macedon about to join battle. You might also consider the average artist might never have seen a battle (the British Museum has several very nice Assyrian stele showing men running up ladders perpendicular as if on an inclined street and shooting arrows at the same time)

The totality of evidence is often contradictory. There can be little doubt that at some point during the life of Phillip II the Macedonians adopted a distinctive 'heavy' (close order) spear based phalanx that was not similar to the Greek traditional one. One that was sufficiently different to be called Macedonian style. However when that became so distinct is difficult to know since seems a bit fluid in Phillip and Alex's day.

Worrying about pictorial evidence will get thinking the Greek Hoplites were nude and barefoot.

But for recent discussion of the Macedonian system:

Anderson, J. K. “Shields of Eight Palms' Width.” California Studies in Classical Antiquity, vol. 9, 1976, pp. 1–6. JSTOR, JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/25010697.

The Macedonian Sarissa, Spear, and Related Armor
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/503007.pdf

Useof the Sarissa by Philip and Alexander of Macedon
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/504637.pdf

Markle, Minor M. “A Shield Monument from Veria and the Chronology of Macedonian Shield Types.” Hesperia: The Journal of the American School of Classical Studies at Athens, vol. 68, no. 2, 1999, pp. 219–254. JSTOR, JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/148374.

On balance the preponderance of evidence is a shield but not an Argive aspis nor similar to what a Roman hauled around. A sword not as large as Hoplite or Roman would carry. A very long pike. But that is still just a ranker fighting in Macedonian style. That is not necessarily even then how an officer would have doned on parade or hunting or such - or the best he could get a artist to churn out.

Also a large view shows a lot shields about (of your 2 men with spears pair)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...%2C_Greece.jpg

[JaM]

Look at Renaisance Pikemen... some of them had shields, some didnt.. usually those in front, were heavily armored, protected with shields because they were directly in danger... but guys in back of pike square, had no need for such equipment.. it would make sense for macedonians do the same...

[conon394]

Look at Renaisance Pikemen... some of them had shields, some didnt.. usually those in front, were heavily armored, protected with shields because they were directly in danger... but guys in back of pike square, had no need for such equipment.. it would make sense for macedonians do the same...

Theory and Practice and what works on campaign and what soldiers decide rightly or wrongly works - sure. But I still think one has to fundamentally be careful of what to make imagery that is very much not a snapshot but idealized imagery. Also there are very few sources equivalent to Xenophon's self help texts. That is to say cavalry for dummies grounded in time and space and written for practical effect by a real expert.

[JaM]

personally, i'm always surprised how many people think about ancient armies from modern perspective of uniformity...

[Valiant Champion]

Targets and bucklers were more weapons for close combat. Not saying they would not have protected against missiles. as an example the spanish buckler was a development of the need to find a way through the spearwall of a pike formation. Or in the case of the target there was significant effort in developing the art of dueling with the use of the target. Also if the shield was hung to the arm how would it protect from missiles? Only if the phalangist was stationary and able to free his left arm up would he be able to hold it in such a way to block incoming missiles.

We know that the Romans in one battle admired the ability of the pikemen in a surrounded block to fight off their attacks, so they rested and allowed archers to shoot them all down. Not to say that even with shields that might have happened but it would have taken a lot more arrows.

I am probably wrong but it would be nice to find some artifacts like a buckler type shield alongside a sarissa in a tomb.

{personally, i'm always surprised how many people think about ancient armies from modern perspective of uniformity...}

not sure if are saying that just because pikemen did not use shields that the phalangist did not either. I am just looking for the truth of the matter using some physical evidence. written documentation can be contradictory depending on the source.

One also has to look at the macedonian pikemen of the time. Yes some on the right end may have been better equipped possibly. But considering that they would be required to move faster than those on the left it would be confusing. However the majority of the phalanx were simple peasants with no body armor and only a helmet that may not have even been of the thracian type. they could have just had a leather cap. maybe not even greaves either. Cost effectiveness is very important in fielding a large army and the reason why they adopted the sarissa is so that low trained ill equipped levies could match and at the very least hold against hoplites. Were bucklers or targets inexpensive to make than perhaps they were all armed with these.

Yes I have a hypothesis but can stand to be easily corrected if need be. It may be that the writers noticed the best armored and equipped of the Pikemen and tended to ignore the lower class peasants. Don't hurt have two hands clapping instead of one. So far I do only have contemporary images. I could not use the relief images on the alexander sarcophagus because the foot soldiers depicted there are hypaspists. and the famous alexander and Darius image that was copied faithfully on into the AD., only shows the pikes but not the soldiers wielding them.

Also it kind of goes against what we know about the hypaspists. That they were light enough equipped to make at least some attempt to keep up with the horse of the right wing. The hypaspists had a short spear, big shield and a helmet and possibly greaves although those would have slowed down their speed.

[Cyclops]

...
We know that the Romans in one battle admired the ability of the pikemen in a surrounded block to fight off their attacks, so they rested and allowed archers to shoot them all down. Not to say that even with shields that might have happened but it would have taken a lot more arrows....

Which battle are you thinking of?

[Sar1n]

Macedonian phalanx underwent in those ~150 years of Diadochi period significant changes. The troops that Philip developed and Alexander used were well trained and equipped, reminiscent of later professional armies, and were capable of fighting as skirmishers or light infantry outside of phalanx formation, and the shield might have been included in their gear for this purpose. However in their wars, Diadochi quickly realized that easiest way of defeating the phalanx was bigger phalanx with longer spears, and with hellenistic settlers being unable to provide the manpower for their wars, they had to turn to native population, and progressively fielded larger but worse equipped and drilled phalanx regiments.

It's quite possible that shield disappeared from typical phalangitai gear during this period, although it probably was retained by some units like Seleucid Argyraspidai, who were drilled and equipped to similar standard to Alexander's Pezhetairoi.

[Common Soldier]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2b/ec...cf145c0fa0.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/eb...ff91d18e76.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9d/e2/ce/9...ncient-art.jpg

I was trying to find contemporary depictions of Macedonian Pikemen and I came across some contemporary images of them.

I was surprised to find that none of the contemporary images I found depicted a pikeman with a shield. Although this flies in the face of everything we are taught, it does make sense that such a long weapon would have had to be wielded without the slightest hindrance. The phalanx had to be able to move quickly and efficiently and the extra weight of even a light shield could have made a heck of a difference stamina wise.

Just wanted some feedback and maybe some contemporary sources from the era to demonstrate that they did use a shield. Frescoes, Mosaics or relief images are preferred.

How would you hold a long Pike and a shield at the same time? To hold the pike, I think you need to forego the shield.

The only problem is protection against arrows and spears, and wearing armor can provide some protection . Plus, Greek armies weren't big on using missiles like arrows.

[Common Soldier]

Look at Renaisance Pikemen... some of them had shields, some didnt.. usually those in front, were heavily armored, protected with shields because they were directly in danger... but guys in back of pike square, had no need for such equipment.. it would make sense for macedonians do the same...

Really? Most of the pikemen I have sesn pictures of did not have shields. They had armor, but not shields. By the Renaissance, even knights did not use shields for the most part, their plate armor provided the protection. Only a small heater shield for jousting, or a buckler for dueling.

[Valiant Champion]

How would you hold a long Pike and a shield at the same time? To hold the pike, I think you need to forego the shield.

The only problem is protection against arrows and spears, and wearing armor can provide some protection . Plus, Greek armies weren't big on using missiles like arrows.

This was kind of my logic.

According the one source (didn't think to look at what time he was around) I assumed a contemporary source, the mean mentioned that the phalangite had a 2 foot shield. Can't remember if he said it was strapped to his arm on slung on their back. They may have used shields when stationary like the Scotish pikemen would when fired upon by the English. But even with the short pike the scots had they still did not use their shield while they wielded their pike.

whatever they had to be provided it had to be done by an already bankrupt Macedonian government. If so much time and energy and equipment were devoted to the phalangites it would be self defeating as the phalangite was intended to be a cheap cost effective way to match heavily armored elite hoplites who were expensive to field in world conquering numbers.

[JaM]

Really? Most of the pikemen I have sesn pictures of did not have shields. They had armor, but not shields. By the Renaissance, even knights did not use shields for the most part, their plate armor provided the protection. Only a small heater shield for jousting, or a buckler for dueling.

Some Spanish pikemen sometimes used rotella shields (stressing out word sometimes)

[Cyclops]

How would you hold a long Pike and a shield at the same time? To hold the pike, I think you need to forego the shield.

The only problem is protection against arrows and spears, and wearing armor can provide some protection . Plus, Greek armies weren't big on using missiles like arrows.

Athens had a company of Skythian toxotai, Kretan toxotai were famous across the med, pretty much every engagement on record mentions psiloi of some form or other. Maybe you meant Hellenic sources don't talk much about missile troops? They are part of every major battler in the classical period, and usually played an important part.

Really? Most of the pikemen I have sesn pictures of did not have shields. They had armor, but not shields. By the Renaissance, even knights did not use shields for the most part, their plate armor provided the protection. Only a small heater shield for jousting, or a buckler for dueling.

The classical period (as we know from TW and mods like EB) saw a gradual increase in the amount of available armour but it starts off low. Slings declined in importance but bows and javelins are useful weapons from Meggido to Adrianople.

whatever they had to be provided it had to be done by an already bankrupt Macedonian government. If so much time and energy and equipment were devoted to the phalangites it would be self defeating as the phalangite was intended to be a cheap cost effective way to match heavily armored elite hoplites who were expensive to field in world conquering numbers.

Already banckruypt Macedonian gobvernment? What the hell are you talking about? Phillip had the mines at Pangaion and other places, IIRC they produced a talent of silver a week. He was literally the most cashed up Hellenic ruler to that point, and Alexander's resources increased exponentially with his conquests.

Still waiting for your source for that battle you mentioned.

[Common Soldier]

Some Spanish pikemen sometimes used rotella shields (stressing out word sometimes)

Do.you have any contemporary illustrations showing pikemen? These pictures appear.to be modrn, after the time that pikes were used. Or Perhaps a pikeman's shield in a museum? A modern painting mere shows what the painter thought. it

[Valiant Champion]

Athens had a company of Skythian toxotai, Kretan toxotai were famous across the med, pretty much every engagement on record mentions psiloi of some form or other. Maybe you meant Hellenic sources don't talk much about missile troops? They are part of every major battler in the classical period, and usually played an important part.



The classical period (as we know from TW and mods like EB) saw a gradual increase in the amount of available armour but it starts off low. Slings declined in importance but bows and javelins are useful weapons from Meggido to Adrianople.


Already banckruypt Macedonian gobvernment? What the hell are you talking about? Phillip had the mines at Pangaion and other places, IIRC they produced a talent of silver a week. He was literally the most cashed up Hellenic ruler to that point, and Alexander's resources increased exponentially with his conquests.

Still waiting for your source for that battle you mentioned.

It was called the battle of Magnesia.

Also the budget was tight until he started capturing cities and sending money home. If you don't believe me than ask yourself why he disbanded the greek fleet that he could not afford to keep afloat or be able to fund the building of more ships and hiring more greek sailors.

[Cyclops]

It was called the battle of Magnesia.

Livy's version does not mention the noob box, and a quick wiki search shows Appian was the other source. Both have their problems, Livy loved to talk up Roman power and whitewash faults, Appian is a bit more literary and may have been writing more for effect than veracity.

In any case Appian's version states the pike square accepted inside it a large body of light troops, and while their number (possibly the light troops) suffered from missile fire the phalanx did not break until the elephants became enraged by missile fire.

Also the budget was tight until he started capturing cities and sending money home. If you don't believe me than ask yourself why he disbanded the greek fleet that he could not afford to keep afloat or be able to fund the building of more ships and hiring more greek sailors.

I think his budget was tight because he was leading a force of around 40,000 (the usual Makedonian levy was 20,000 give or take a pretty stable number across the history of the kingdom, but that could be doubled in a time of crisis) plus he left another substantial force under Antipatros (maybe 20,000 more) at home.

Some of those units were allied (so their wages may have been paid by the member states of the League of Korinth), but he took most of the Makedonian phalanx and 5-7,00 mercenaries, plus a large tribal contingent. It was a great strain on the budget to field perhaps triple the usual force, and you're right he sent the fleet home despite capturing number of granary cities and (I agree with Robin Lane Fox on this point) receiving assistance from Persian nobles friendly to him and his father. I don't think he was ever bankrupt though, just making sure he did not skimp on his land forces once he was established in Asia.

That said the Makedonian phalanx was trained and equipped by Phillip 15-20 years before Alexander led the Hellenes into Asia. You could argue a financial crisis in 323-328 may have led to a shortage of equipment, but it would not affect the phalanx when a cashed up Philip created it decades before, nor afterwards when Alexander and his Diadochi were awash with the treasures of Asia. Even post-Alexander Makedonia enjoyed sway over the important mines Philip had used to fund his military expansion which put them in a position to dominate Hellas and resist Rome for a couple of campaigns.

There are Diadochi phalanxes titled Chalkaspides (bronze shields) and Agyraspides (silver shields, although the first unit with that name were hypaspists and there's one unit of Seleukid Argyraspides described as being armed 'in the Roman fashion", it was the name of the Seleukid elite phalanx) and I've heard of goldshield and whiteshield phalanxes too. Maybe that was just an honorific but more likely it described their equipment like redcoats, blackshirts or green berets did later. There's no persuasive "logical" argument that phalangites didn't use shields, and the (sometimes fanciful) artistic evidence is less persuasive than the military manuals and historians of the era.

I could believe some phalanx pikemen occasionally fought without shields because of poverty or equipment loss but I believe a small to medium shield was standard issue for the Makedonian pike phalangite.

[Hazzard]

I can't remember where I got this from, but I recall someone describing the shield of the pikmen being on a strap around the soldier's neck to protect arms. I think it is likely more from projectiles than in hand to hand combat, but that's my own conjecture.

Also, I don't think there's any doubt as to if Renaissance Pikemen carried shields. I've seen mentions of it more than a few times. By no means was it a regular thing. I recall an example of Scottish mercenaries fighting in the Deluge, who would have a targe and sword, in addition to the pike. With the targe used if the pike failed, or it wasn't the right time for it.

I'm struggling to imagine actively using a shield of a decent size, or even holding it while managing a pike much much longer than a person. I'm used to using 7 ft rattan staves which need two hands to use effectively.

[Common Soldier]

I can't remember where I got this from, but I recall someone describing the shield of the pikmen being on a strap around the soldier's neck to protect arms. I think it is likely more from projectiles than in hand to hand combat, but that's my own conjecture.

Also, I don't think there's any doubt as to if Renaissance Pikemen carried shields. I've seen mentions of it more than a few times. By no means was it a regular thing. I recall an example of Scottish mercenaries fighting in the Deluge, who would have a targe and sword, in addition to the pike. With the targe used if the pike failed, or it wasn't the right time for it.

I have doubts that Renaissance pikemen used shields. I haven't seen any illustrations made during the time showing them with shields, and we have a number of such pictures, nor have I seen pikeman' shield displayed in a museum.

Shorter spears, up to 8 ft, you can use one handed, but not the longer pike.

I'm struggling to imagine actively using a shield of a decent size, or even holding it while managing a pike much much longer than a person. I'm used to using 7 ft rattan staves which need two hands to use effectively.

That is my problem too. A 7 ft spear can be used with one hand, the spears of the Bayeux Tapestry seem longer than 7 ft, and they were used one with one hand. But the pike could be much longer, up to 18 ft for ancient Macedonian pike, and those would need 2 hands.

If they did use shields, perhaps pikemen had did one of several things:

A. They slung it over their shoulder, or on their left arm, and the sheild was in a more or less horizontal position while holding the pike, perhaps even with the front edge of the shield resting against the pike. Shield would have to be on the smaller side, and wouldn't provide much protection while using the pike.

B. Or they slung the shield over their backs, using the shield only they they took up.a defensive position.

[Sudden Death]

I believe there's no actual visual representation of Macedonian pikemen, only of Macedonian infantrymen armed as hoplites. In the renaissance I believe they thought the Macedonian pikemen did not wear a shield at all, as Machiavelli in his Art of War notes. However, we know now from archealogical evidence and elswhere that the Macedonian pikemen did have a strap-on shield that was quite a lot smaller than a normal hoplite shield.

[neoptolemos]

I believe there's no actual visual representation of Macedonian pikemen, only of Macedonian infantrymen armed as hoplites. In the renaissance I believe they thought the Macedonian pikemen did not wear a shield at all, as Machiavelli in his Art of War notes. However, we know now from archealogical evidence and elswhere that the Macedonian pikemen did have a strap-on shield that was quite a lot smaller than a normal hoplite shield.

Indeed, the Macedonian shield is a modified version of the Argive shield, and as such it was a functional shield either as strap-on or as a regular one, as seen in a 3d recontruction of the war museum in Athens (click and see it from a 360 view)
http://www.warmuseum.gr/el/mod3dgallery


Art depicting the use of shield