Enemies of the People? Trump's Assault on the Press

[Gaidin]

The founding fathers warned against the Tyranny of the majority.

That's what the Senate is for. Every state gets the same number.

[Geleco]

I’m not American, but as I understand it, America is a collection of states first, and a country second, rather like the EU is. Even on the old world maps America was a number of states not a single bloc. The founding fathers warned against the Tyranny of the majority.



I can tell you that in the UK a lot of people feel more English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish than British and are more loyal to that, Americans are probably even more so loyal to their state as we’re not even federalised.

The US has not been that federalized since the 1780s, though many people did once hold their home state in high regard, and some still do (mostly in rural states). But it is not to the level of nations such as yours.

I find it ironic that the founding fathers were so concerned with tyranny of the majority. They were truly disgusting men who should be abhorred for generations, and held responsible for the exploitation and repression of millions. As someone who lives in America (not an American) I do not understand the almost religious attitude that many people here take towards them, and towards the Constitution and the US govt in general. The best explanation I can come up with is that they are brainwashed by the state. Only a conniving, malicious entity could have turned such subversive and evil men into supposed preservers of liberty. The thought makes me sick.

Men like Trump are an ugly reminder that politicians are not our friends, and never will be.

[conon394]

I’m not American, but as I understand it, America is a collection of states first, and a country second, rather like the EU is. Even on the old world maps America was a number of states not a single bloc.

Wrong way round. That was true under the Articles of Confederation, not under the current Constitution (Although some Southerners seems to have failed to get the memo caused a tiff a while back).

The founding fathers warned against the Tyranny of the majority.

The framers were bit besotted by the Anti democratic tradition in Western Though and idolized Rome (managing to forget all the times the senate resorted to mob rule and of course collapsed in tyranny).

Americans are probably even more so loyal to their state

Unlikely. Which state am I supposed to loyal too? None of my 3 kids or wife were born in same state, I lived 6 in the last 20 years... Our closest family members are dispersed in another 3 different states and closest friends (as close as family) another additional 2. Your statement might true back in 1776, but not so much now.

[Gaidin]

Wrong way round. That was true under the Articles of Confederation, not under the current Constitution (Although some Southerners seems to have failed to get the memo caused a tiff a while back).

<snip>

Unlikely. Which state am I supposed to loyal too? None of my 3 kids or wife were born in same state, I lived 6 in the last 20 years... Our closest family members are dispersed in another 3 different states and closest friends (as close as family) another additional 2. Your statement might true back in 1776, but not so much now.

To add, it was roundabout post-civil-war when, basically, the government said "No, you're not leaving," even at the cost of war, that the people started thinking of themselves as members of a country instead of members of a state.

[Derpy Hooves]

Wrong way round. That was true under the Articles of Confederation, not under the current Constitution (Although some Southerners seems to have failed to get the memo caused a tiff a while back).

Sounds like you've never heard of the Tenth Amendment before.

[Elfdude]

Sounds like you've never heard of the Tenth Amendment before.

Sounds like you've failed to hear about literally 200 years of judicial history which has smashed that perspective to dust.

When the North was pissed at the south for tariffs on manufactured goods, the South levee'd the argument that they were unable to dissolve the union. When the South seceded, the vast majority of states rebuffed and said no you can't. This has been the ruling dozens of times and in no way is true whatsoever. The constitution gives draconic powers to the federal government which allows it to supercede almost anything a state does.

The EU has some draconic clauses but ultimately there is no central authority of the EU, it is a true confederation whereas the US is a federalist union.

[Winston Smith]

Even at the beginning people like Washington and Hamilton were more loyal to the Union then their home states.

[tgoodenow]

Curious on people's thoughts about the Rod Rosenstein article in the NYT? Alledges that Rosenstein talked about secretly recording his conversations with Trump with a wire so that he could rally cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment.
Rosenstein and his allies state that it was a joke. Andrew McCabe (fired FBI guy) says that it wasn't a joke and his notes on the meeting are the basis for the NYT article.
Many liberals are alleging that this was released by Trump allies to give a legit reason to fire Rosenstein before the November elections.

So basically we have Andrew McCabe and the NYT vs left wing pundits. Does this article make the NYT "enemies of all the people"?

Article here:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/u...amendment.html

[TheDarkKnight]

Curious on people's thoughts about the Rod Rosenstein article in the NYT? Alledges that Rosenstein talked about secretly recording his conversations with Trump with a wire so that he could rally cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment.
Rosenstein and his allies state that it was a joke. Andrew McCabe (fired FBI guy) says that it wasn't a joke and his notes on the meeting are the basis for the NYT article.
Many liberals are alleging that this was released by Trump allies to give a legit reason to fire Rosenstein before the November elections.

So basically we have Andrew McCabe and the NYT vs left wing pundits. Does this article make the NYT "enemies of all the people"?

Article here:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/u...amendment.html

Eh it would be unfortunate. Though it makes me wonder just how bad these conversations are that any staff member wants to record them.

I hope Rosenstein doesn't get fired. The last thing we need is for Mueller to get canned right after.

Though if he does get removed and Republicans remain in power after the midterms I expect Mueller to get removed anyway. I am hoping the investigation can at least drop any bombshells they got before that happens.

[Katsumoto]

Curious on people's thoughts about the Rod Rosenstein article in the NYT? Alledges that Rosenstein talked about secretly recording his conversations with Trump with a wire so that he could rally cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment.
Rosenstein and his allies state that it was a joke. Andrew McCabe (fired FBI guy) says that it wasn't a joke and his notes on the meeting are the basis for the NYT article.
Many liberals are alleging that this was released by Trump allies to give a legit reason to fire Rosenstein before the November elections.

So basically we have Andrew McCabe and the NYT vs left wing pundits. Does this article make the NYT "enemies of all the people"?

Article here:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/u...amendment.html

It's an interesting and ironic development, Trump's chief 'enemy of the people', the 'failing New York Times', being the one to provide him with reason to fire Rosenstein. I trust the NYT but this story just seems a little too convenient. It was strange seeing some comments though, accusing the NYT of irresponsible reporting by publishing this story. What are they supposed to, withhold the news because their 'side' won't like it? Imagine the outrage if a conservative news outlet sat on a story like this. Even if this story is true though, people need to be seriously concerned why so many officials are questioning Trump's fitness for office.

So, a conspirator shouldn't be fired? If anything, Trump should pursue a death sentence. Then give mercy right at the end.

A president potentially conspiring with a foreign power and obstructing justice is cool, but a public servant seeking to legally remove an unfit president deserves the death penalty. Okay Basil.

[Basil II the B.S]

So, a conspirator shouldn't be fired? If anything, Trump should pursue a death sentence. Then give mercy right at the end.

[Basil II the B.S]

Yeah a president ''potentially'' conspiring vs a deputy secretary ACTUALLY conspiring.

Post truth politics, feelings are more important than facts. There's no evidence of the former, there's evidence of the latter, but Rosenstein shouldn't be hanged for the only treason we have evidence of. OKAY

[Katsumoto]

It's very cute that you read one article from the NYT that says something you like and suddenly they're a bastion of honesty (feelings over facts indeed). You can't have it both ways Basil, either the NYT is part of the lying liberal media or they aren't. Read up:

https://www.nytimes.com/spotlight/trump-russia

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...p-clinton.html

[Basil II the B.S]

There's a good way to discern the truth in an era of extreme partisanship.
When a liberal media is forced to admit something that does not favour its side in any way, but actually hurts it, then it's likely true and possibly worse than they are telling.
Similarly, when a conservative media is forced to admit something that does not favour conservatives, then it's likely true.

You said it yourself, it's a strange case but you can't withold news because ''your side doesn't like it''. This is actually what makes it credible.


Unless we really want to go deep into conspiracy theories and exposing Rosenstein is a way to divert attention from the NYT alleged mole among Trump aides. But that would be too much.

[TheDarkKnight]

Conservatives where a 1.5 year long investigation continues to turn up rats within Trumps campaign and administration that are well liked:
"This investigation is one big nothingburger and should be ended immediately, justice be damned"

Also conservatives where an unliked member of the administration MIGHT have said something to upset the feelings of the pompous, orange manchild who threatened to end a legal investigation:
"HANG HIM! NO COURTS JUST HANG HIM!"

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By the way it is literally the definition of "legal" to remove an unfit president using the 25th Amendment. Trump is literally the definition of an unfit president.

How much of the constitution are you against, Basil? We already got that you are against the press so long as it is LIBRUL press...are you against one of the later amendments as well?

[Basil II the B.S]

The Constitution has been already raped by Barack Obama and George W. Bush, so please... when it comes to that Trump is a saint.
Now even more liberal rapists want to repeal the 1st and and 2nd amendment.


The 25th amendment doesn't give the right to Rosenstein to start independent spying. Espionage gets you death sentence.

[Duncan III]

In England 'trump' means the same as 'fart' which is weird when it's on the news and stuff.