How to handle Sparta's severe population problem?

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

I am playing with 40 unit stacks, so my armies are larger, but I never run into this much of a problem with other factions.

I've just hit the first reforms, thinking that would help, but alas, I still can't recruit Spartans in any real numbers. My primary army has five units of Spartans, and I can't recruit anymore. Even after tens of turns I can't get the population over 400 Homoioi in Sparta.

Even Perioikoi are dangerously limited in most places. One of my armies is made up entirely of mercenaries (love the mercenary changes in the latest version, I can actually keep them around now!) but Im running out of xenoi in most of my regions too.

The only thing I have in abundance are helots, but helots are useless.


I understand Sparta is supposed to have a manpower problem, but I didn't expect one this severe. Is 90% of each army really supposed to be made up of mercenaries, or am I doing something wrong?


EDIT: Alternative question, how would I go about increasing Xenoi population in core provinces? In Thracia I've built Thracian settlements and kept the local culture intact, so I have plenty of auxiliaries there, but I was hoping to be able to recruit Macedonian pikes. The abundance of my culture and inability to build Macedonian settlements really limits what I can do to grow the xenoi population.

[Samos41]

I got around this by making Hellas a pure military province with 2 temples and any other building that gives 1st class bonus. I think I managed to pump out about 30 spartan hoplites all with 2 gold chevron from Hellas before reforms hit. The trouble is replenishing after reforms but basically if you recruit as many hoplites as you can before reform you'll have enough spartans to use as a decent core for your armies after reforms.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Thanks I'll give that a try. Right now Athens is a large economic center but Im planning a conquest of Cimmeria soon, so I should be making enough money from there to transform Hellas into a military province.

[Jake Armitage]

I can do a pack to raise population % and sparta starting population if you wish.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Thanks, I'd use that. I tried to take a loot at the population script myself but I couldn't quite figure it out.


A little off-topic, but Im actually trying to alleviate my manpower problem in a more role-play-ish way. I've formed the Hellenic League, so I've made a new .pack file to try and allow Sparta to recruit faction-specific Hoplites and a selection of other units from the various Greek States I've confederated with, but Im not really sure how. I thought I'd just have to use units_to_groupings_military_permissions, but no luck.

[Jake Armitage]

Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/file/jvgwzp...arta.pack/file
It will raise initial sparta population (main campaign only) and an average raise to general population growth too.

Can't help with the other thing, sorry, never done such things.

Cheers.

[Diruk]

Thanks, I'd use that. I tried to take a loot at the population script myself but I couldn't quite figure it out.


A little off-topic, but Im actually trying to alleviate my manpower problem in a more role-play-ish way. I've formed the Hellenic League, so I've made a new .pack file to try and allow Sparta to recruit faction-specific Hoplites and a selection of other units from the various Greek States I've confederated with, but Im not really sure how. I thought I'd just have to use units_to_groupings_military_permissions, but no luck.

Wouldn't you just save the confederation trouble by just conquering the final settlement of the greek city states and building the level 3 main build?

[Samos41]

If you make Athens a client state you can leave a general in atgens and you can levy actual Athenian hoplites. It takes a while as you can only levy 2-3 units each turn and they change each turn. In my Sparta campaign for example I made Rome a client state which allowed me to levy imperial legionaries so i had spartan hoplites as my main line with romans on the flanks. So if you want to recruit actual units from factions not just AOR units then making them client states is the only way I know how you can do that.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Oh yes, I do that frequently. I actually recommend the "More Client State Levies" mod so that you have a wider selection.

I don't recommend making Athens a vassal, though, you need Athenai to actually trade as Sparta unless you want to change the capital.

[Jake Armitage]

How is with the pack I uploaded? Think I raised Sparta pop on wrong campaign. Let me know if you need something 'cause later today I'm gonna work on pop scripts for testudo.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

I really haven't noticed much of a change, so you may be right. I didn't start a new campaign though, so that might also be an issue?

I think the cause is overpopulation rather than an initial slow growth, even Perioikoi are barely growing at all. For instance, right now in my campaign, Athens has 58,331 people. 57,008 are Helots, and 1080 are Xenoi.

This can't possibly be right. Helots are almost completely useless, you can recruit a horrible spear unit with them, or three types of horrible skirmishers. Otherwise they have no benefit. And it's not as if Athens is geared towards Helot growth, either. The city building slot is Commercial Athens, so it has 1% tier 3 population growth, but every other building in the settlement is geared towards either tier 1 or tier 2 population growth.

[Jake Armitage]

try this one, you should feel more difference, better in a new campaign. It adds starting population to sparta correctly now, but for a new campaign.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ixh2tb...rta2.pack/file

[Dardo21]

The lvl 5 barracks adds a larger increase to 1st and 2nd pop (thanks to my suggestion :p), so does Sparta's unique capital, personally I increased the pop growth slightly overall, and also for some special capitals in particular like Sparta. Strategy-wise, I try to limit my superior units until I've build high level buildings and gained some techs that improve growth.

[Samos41]

You can build a barracks in macedonia and recruit hoplites thete and then disband them in sparta which will raise the population. The population goes up straight after so make sure you re-recruit them straight after disbanding i think if you wait till the next turn the population resets so save some money before you do it so you can queue up all availiable guys in one go.

[Ashok99]

Hello. Can anyone tell me at which point do Spartan Reforms occur? Also, how do you balance out the politics in government?

[Jake Armitage]

man, selukos pasted the reform link for you in the other thread
no need to spam things into many posts, if someone wants to answer he'll do

Greek\Successor Kingdoms Reforms

• Thureos – Imperium level 3, minimum turns 50
• Thorax – Imperium level 5, minimum turns 120

[kameni]

Can you please again upload mod

[Ashok99]

I wonder if there's a way to speed up the population growth of the citizens so I could field more Spartans. Anyone? ^^